Leave K&C Alone... (6 Viewers)

[Rob]

I am confident that when I bring points to the table they are backed by MUCH research and familarity with the products, I carefully study all of the components and how they come together when I present my work and my work is far from perfect, but I give it everything I have and I expect the same from the manufacturers.

So I would hope when it is spoken that individuals just rant I would like to not be considered part of that group.

When I provide information it is to be helpful to fellow collectors / modelers, I have a Website, Facebook Page and Forum dedicated to this.

Alex

I also look forward to seeing your Railway develop Alex, am a big Hornby fan myself:salute::

 

[Firebat]

This discussion is futile :smile2:

I will bet not one person has changed his position on the matter.


Those of us who desire greater things from the manufacturers have lost the battle.......So as I said when I began my participation in this thread, pick and choose the few well done pieces out there or get out of the hobby.

OR turn the other cheek and accept things as they are.

I talk about this stuff but in the end it does not really matter, if whatever I and others have stated has resulted in some changes then fine ...It is only a hobby and now I have my trains to keep me busy too......So I am good to go....Good luck to the rest of you and whatever choices you make.


Alex

 

[Rob]

What did I say???{eek3}^&confuse^&confuse

This discussion is futile :smile2:

I will bet not one person has changed his position on the matter.


Those of us who desire greater things from the manufacturers have lost the battle.......So as I said when I began my participation in this thread, pick and choose the few well done pieces out there or get out of the hobby.

OR turn the other cheek and accept things as they are.

I talk about this stuff but in the end it does not really matter, if whatever I and others have stated has resulted in some changes then fine ...It is only a hobby and now I have my trains to keep me busy too......So I am good to go....Good luck to the rest of you and whatever choices you make.


Alex

 

[ecuriel]

You are so wrong..MTH all the way!^&grin Michael

Watch it. I'm an LGB guy, but I also have Lionel and Marklin.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Terry

Quite correct but it is all in the definition. If you do not like the way K&C do their tank tracks is it critique or complaining to mention it every time they release a vehicle? If you do not like the 'P' concept does every release attract the same comment? What greater purpose underpins such a critique/criticism? Are you attempting to influence a manufacturer by constant references or are you a prophet enrolling disciples in a cause? If you say - as some have - that not one manufacturer is getting it right, by definition that means it is a battle fought between immortals through eternity. Every peice is wrong.

Do you know the scene in the movie 'The Battle of the Bulge' when the faithful driver realises that the cause and the man he has fought for threatens now to involve his sons in ceaseless warfare? He comes to understand that the cause is unworthy of his efforts, throws his helmet away and moves on.

Jack

Too existential ^&grin I think most people can figure out if a post is critique or complaint - it's not the edge of the razor. The thread Impressive New Jagdpanther is aa good example of a critical thread. The wheels became an issue because of their colour. It's up to you to decide if you think it a critique or another repetitive complaint.

Terry

 

[jazzeum]

I'm with Jack on this one and essentially the question is at what point does critique evolve into complaining or, as some might say, whining.

Regardless of what is said, decided or agreed upon or however many nodding knowing assents are made, Alex (Firebat) is right: no opinions will be changed.

Brad

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I'm with Jack on this one and essentially the question is at what point does critique evolve into complaining or, as some might say, whining.

Regardless of what is said, decided or agreed upon or however many nodding knowing assents are made, Alex (Firebat) is right: no opinions will be changed.

Brad

I'm not interested in changing anyones opinion. I'm interested in discussing the history that the model represents and whether it has the key features for that version. If a tank is advertised as being from a famous regiment but the insignia are wrong, that is a critique - one model at a time even if most models are done wrong. If a tank is advertised as having been at a battle or used by a particular unit, it should have been there. If an important feature of the tank is left out, that is a critique.


The difference between critque and complaint is one model at a time vs blanket repetitive statements. I can't believe the people on this forum aren't smart enough to tell the difference as you and Jack seem to imply.

Terry

 

[jazzeum]

The question was probably more rhetorical than anything else. It has nothing to do with people having the intelligence to tell the difference; they can. Critique is fine and to be expected when warranted. However, when the same critique about a model or a manufacturing method (i.e., how tracks are made) is continuously raised, it passes into the realm of complaining.

 

[Flyboy]

Yes indeed. Constant repetitive complaining does spoil the enjoyment of certain threads when the author of the thread clearly wants and even asks that the complainer take it elsewhere . Its only when this happens and the complainer totally ignores this common courtesy and basic manners that people get annoyed and it becomes obvious that the complaint is probably more of an ongoing issue or grudge that really has no place where people are trying to talk about the product they enjoy.

As for the rah rah threads they are easily identifiable and as a result it is easier for people who dislike this to ignore it than it is to ignore someone who is trying to disrupt a thread with an ongoing agenda. Now if someone starts a thread with a complaint and it is swamped with rah rah's then that too is discourteous and should not be allowed. Mitch suggested such as this yesterday and would be interesting to see how this (or if) this would work.

We all have freedom of speech here but also have to show courtesy to others, otherwise this place would soon end up with constant arguing and ill feeling. For all the arguments that sometimes occur here the language and level of bitterness is very tame indeed. A clear example of how the moderators have contributed to a much more enjoyable atmosphere is the much calmer K&C threads these days.

Finally, for those who think its not worth being a member here if they cannot ruin others enjoyment at their will , well the answer would appear obvious.:smile2:

Rob

I like this post. This gentleman sees all sides of the issues. Let everyone have there say but does it have to go on and on? I learned long ago that the only person you can truly control or convince is yourself. And I have trouble doing that at times!
Now someone tell how the F to compress a picture dad gum it!! Go Vols Mike!!

 

[BLReed]

I'm not interested in changing anyones opinion. I'm interested in discussing the history that the model represents and whether it has the key features for that version. If a tank is advertised as being from a famous regiment but the insignia are wrong, that is a critique - one model at a time even if most models are done wrong. If a tank is advertised as having been at a battle or used by a particular unit, it should have been there. If an important feature of the tank is left out, that is a critique.


The difference between critque and complaint is one model at a time vs blanket repetitive statements. I can't believe the people on this forum aren't smart enough to tell the difference as you and Jack seem to imply.

Spot on. Most of us are smart enough. Thanks.

 

[TomNT]

I'm with Jack on this one and essentially the question is at what point does critique evolve into complaining or, as some might say, whining.

Regardless of what is said, decided or agreed upon or however many nodding knowing assents are made, Alex (Firebat) is right: no opinions will be changed.

Brad

Very true Brad and it's the way many forum members go about being critique on a product. They either be down right rude in what they say or they constantly bring up the same old issues under the guise of "free speech". The forum is supposed to be a fun place and what some forum members don't seem to get is, that by constantly being repetitive on the same old topics, they are making this forum unpleasant. Sure, you can set you settings to "ignore" so you don't see certain members posts or you don't have to read them or go into the thread but why should that be necessary. If you think there is something wrong with a product, then by all means say it but why must you say it over and over again. You can also criticise a product in a friendly manner as if you are chatting with mates around a barby, dinner party or at the pub etc. If they don't agree with you then that's cool, you have your opinion and they have there's, but move on after having your say as continuing to argue is not going to get you anywhere. All it's going to do is what's happening in this thread, another endless groundhog day!

It's no wonder why many new forum members shake there heads in disbelief when they read the constant repetitive criticism on the same old topics. I agree with wayne556517, it's mind boggling that this thread has attracted so many posts and views compared to what an awesome dio might attract.

Tom

 

[larso]

Well said Tom. I don't think anybody is questioning anybodies intelligence. I come here to unwind, so I'm hardly bringing my 'A' brain in that sense. Sure the Jack's of the world bring their doctorate focus to bear at times - but does anybody really get what he says?

I actually do value accuracy, so incorrect regimental markings or plain wrong claims about a vehicle being at a particular battle, are absolutely legitimate issues to raise. We know corrections have been made to product as a result. Some other things though are just too pedantic. We have to remember the size of the miniatures. Slightly larger guns and hands are easily warranted for strength and aesthetic reasons (real size guns often look too small). There are others as well, the 'outrage' at aspects of the new Jagdpanther seemed particularly petty. I think for some their frustration with these type of things has coloured their perspective and they've become 'glass half full' types and they bring a pessimistic mood to their posts, which is a downer for many others here.

 

[TomNT]

Well said Tom. I don't think anybody is questioning anybodies intelligence. I come here to unwind, so I'm hardly bringing my 'A' brain in that sense. Sure the Jack's of the world bring their doctorate focus to bear at times - but does anybody really get what he says?

I actually do value accuracy, so incorrect regimental markings or plain wrong claims about a vehicle being at a particular battle, are absolutely legitimate issues to raise. We know corrections have been made to product as a result. Some other things though are just too pedantic. We have to remember the size of the miniatures. Slightly larger guns and hands are easily warranted for strength and aesthetic reasons (real size guns often look too small). There are others as well, the 'outrage' at aspects of the new Jagdpanther seemed particularly petty. I think for some their frustration with these type of things has coloured their perspective and they've become 'glass half full' types and they bring a pessimistic mood to their posts, which is a downer for many others here.

Very well said John and can I add your bit on accuracy into my post below...{sm4} Seriously though, I also think accuracy is important but only to a certain degree and sometimes on topics such as the size of guns, there is a reason why they are a little large although on this particular topic, it doesn't really bother me a great deal.

Tom

 

[wayne556517]

192
7468
^&confuse^&confuse

 

[TomNT]

192
7468
^&confuse^&confuse

Do you want to have some bets on how high it will go mate?:wink2:

Tom

 

[larso]

192
7468

Better on a thread like this, it doesn't get too specific and people truly do get to clear the air regarding their opinion. Again, credit to the moderators for letting it run, but also well done fellow forum members, there has been a fairly decent tone maintained on this thread. There's also been a few good laughs too!

 

[Firebat]

Terry

If you do not like the way K&C do their tank tracks is it critique or complaining to mention it every time they release a vehicle?


Jack

Again...Not to single out K&C.....I dont like their tank Tracks, so I do as many suggest...I dont buy their tanks any more. I may have joined in on a discussion on this matter here and there, but I have not said that much about it.

I really wish they would fix the tracks, because they do other aspects of their products well and I would like to buy their tanks, if they did a better job on the tracks. I know others dont like them either.

So you tell me how do you approach a situation like this. If you dont mention it they would never know. If you do mention it with some regularity you are tagged as a complainer.

Now they loose sales to me and others for that reason. As an example I love their new k&C Jagdpanther but I cant buy it fo that reason, so I diverted that money to the new Figarti Russian Tanks with excellent treads. Lost Sale.

Alex

 

[wayne556517]

Do you want to have some bets on how high it will go mate?:wink2:

Tom

No thanks mate loosing enough on the nags................^&grin

 

[TomNT]

Again...Not to single out K&C.....I dont like their tank Tracks, so I do as many suggest...I dont buy their tanks any more. I may have joined in on a discussion on this matter here and there, but I have not said much about it.

I really wish they would fix the tracks, because they do other aspects of their products well and I would like to buy their tanks, if they did a better job on the tracks. I know others dont like them either.


So you tell me how do you approach a situation like this. If you dont mention it they would never know. If you do mention it with some regularity you are tagged as a complainer.

Alex

Fair enough Alex but if K&C changed how they did the tracks, then they might receive a huge backlash from customers saying how they hate the new look. Remember, what some people hate is what other people like. I also believe that K&C puts mud in the tracks to give them extra strength and to avoid breakages etc. For me personally, I think the mud in the tracks looks good although sometimes it can be a little thick and I also think that desert tracked vehicles could have a whole lot less although I understand that this could be difficult if a vehicle is being made for several theatres of war.

Tom

 

[Panzer ace]

Sorry guys, I just wanted post #200 in this one.

It has been interesting though.