Leave K&C Alone... (3 Viewers)

[jazzeum]

Andy,
My apologies, for mispelling your name. I know how that feels, my name is Roger as you will recall. But people when they spell my name, some of them adds a d and it becomes " Rodger"
And the privilege was mine, and the rest of the Collectors that has met you. Thank you for keeping and bringing in excellent products month after month. It is greatly appreciated.
Roger

Roger is not the first one to make this mistake. See below from 2005, which is also a good trip down memory lane:

Hi Guys,


Me again, with a few answers…comments…and anything else that comes into my tiny brain.


1) K&C Warbirds Here’s the latest update…


We’ve been in touch with two particular companies in China about making aircraft models. Actually as I sit writing this I’m waiting delivery of some samples from one of these outfits to assess the quality and potential.


The other factory has been a bit tardy – I’m still waiting for price quotations…never mind samples!


I’m still considering a couple of other options – so watch this space!


2) K&C KRIEGSMARINE


Thanks to Pierre for the suggestion. The problem with naval figures is they really need a ship model to “come alive”. This was one of the reasons K&C considered…did a lot of work on… and then dropped our “Pirate” idea. What good are pirates without a pirate ship?


By my rough reckoning even a German “E” boat (torpedo boat) would be about 4 feet long in 1:30 scale… a “U Boat” over 6 feet long, the Bismark roughly 35 feet long. Now, I know Pierre was not asking for those items but my problem is that I would love to make one!!!


However I’ll see if we can’t do some naval related figures in the future.


3) Welcome to Digger


A big welcome to “Digger” – sounds Aussie to me – to the greatest hobby in the world.


4) “NEILSON” not NEILSEN or NIELSEN


Brad, you of all people spelling my name wrong! Everytime people use the Scandinavian spelling for me it gives the wrong impression. K&C Collectors who’ve never met me imagine a strapping 6 foot 5 inch Viking with flowing blond hair and a magnificent “Aryan” look. Unfortunately I’m a very modest 5 foot 8 inch Scotsman with short “mousey’ hair and legs to match!


5) K&C American Civil War


Definitely no plans to get back “into it” as we only just got “out of it” last year!


6) “Tempest”…“British Commando”…“Honour Bound”…


Like all you guys I’ve been really interested in the posts from the above three companies who are bringing out 1:30 scale WWII stuff in 2006. Obviously, I have more than a “passing interest” in what they’re up to. But all of a sudden they’ve gone all bashful and quiet. What’s the latest…does anyone know…any “scuttlebutt” out there?


7) Upcoming Release Dates


At the moment our K&C release schedule is as follows:


JANUARY --- The “NEW” LAH releases


FEBRUARY --- The Court of CLEOPATRA Ancient Egyptians


MARCH --- AFRIKA KORPS


--- and possibly some new American Rev. figures


APRIL --- TO BE DECIDED


MAY --- British 8th Army


Well, as they say, that’s the story so far. Adios for now…


Andy C.

 

[Warrior]

Tuned into this thread a day or so ago.

Interesting.

Anyway; so Alex, model trains now? All I can say to that is have you been on any model train forums?

If you think toy soldier collectors are rivet counters, hop aboard one of those forums; WOW, buckle in and enjoy the ride, it will be bumpy.

You're going from the kettle to the frying pan.

Model trains are great, my Dad had a huge ho/oo layout in our basement when I was a kid. It is what got me interested in ho/oo toy soldiers as part of it was a military base, my Dad started out with a circular track, then he mounted it on a board in the corner of the basement, then he expanded it out, then he expanded it out again, then again and so on and so on.

It won't be long now Alex before you start taking walls down in your basement to expand yours, I think you mentioned you made it larger once already from the original layout, just make sure none of the walls you take out are load bearing ones.

And good luck on those train forums, where the term "KEEP IT REAL" has a whole different meaning.

 

[jazzeum]

I used to be a train collector (O Gauge) and they take up a lot of room. Fun hobby but the space question finally killed me.

 

[maddadicus]

Tuned into this thread a day or so ago.

Interesting.

Anyway; so Alex, model trains now? All I can say to that is have you been on any model train forums?

If you think toy soldier collectors are rivet counters, hop aboard one of those forums; WOW, buckle in and enjoy the ride, it will be bumpy.

You're going from the kettle to the frying pan.

Model trains are great, my Dad had a huge ho/oo layout in our basement when I was a kid. It is what got me interested in ho/oo toy soldiers as part of it was a military base, my Dad started out with a circular track, then he mounted it on a board in the corner of the basement, then he expanded it out, then he expanded it out again, then again and so on and so on.

It won't be long now Alex before you start taking walls down in your basement to expand yours, I think you mentioned you made it larger once already from the original layout, just make sure none of the walls you take out are load bearing ones.

And good luck on those train forums, where the term "KEEP IT REAL" has a whole different meaning.

Wait till he runs into the my brand is better than your brand or my control system is better than your control system verbal wars...I swear there was virtual blood on my monitor..{eek3} Michael

 

[lancer]

Used to be into O gauge myself. Still have my trains but nowhere to set them up. Tried HO but never proceeded with it. Lionel rules!:wink2:^&grin -- Al

 

[maddadicus]

Used to be into O gauge myself. Still have my trains but nowhere to set them up. Tried HO but never proceeded with it. Lionel rules!:wink2:^&grin -- Al

You are so wrong..MTH all the way!^&grin Michael

 

[lancer]

You are so wrong..MTH all the way!^&grin Michael

And so it begins.^&grin Michael, you couldn't be more wrong. Lionel has the best detail, historical accuracy AND the wheels are the perfect color. So there.:tongue: I believe this thread has now officially gone off the rails. -- Al

 

[Firebat]

This discussion has many fine points

Do the below statements make any sense to you !


Trains: I have been in trains for 50 years I know all about them, But their baseline starts at a higher level of detail than our hobby, so I am happy with everything I have already, despite some minor glitches.

In defense of K&C: As I said this should be continued elseware, as it is not only a K&C issue.

Continued complaining: Well you have to continue complaining if the problems are not addressed. So continuing to voice the problem would be legitimate.

Buy what you want: No manufacturer has it right, they all have different problems. So technically there is nothing to buy.

The perfect model: It exists if you put all of the manufacturers strong points together, so it proves it can be done. ( So continue to complain )

Rivet Counting: We are not talking rivet counting here we are talking some basic problems of size uniformity, quality in some cases, and getting the basics right.

Now someone knock a hole in those statements.

Alex

 

[Flyboy]

Mike,
Hi! Welcome to the forum!. Andy that I mentioned is Andy Neillson founder and head honcho of King and Country. He is a very likable man. Always has that approachable personality. He has that twinkle in his eyes when he talks about this hobby. Be it talking about his products or others. And he actually inspired another manufacturer, to get into this business. If I remember correctly it was a wedding procession, that was made by King and Country.
Andy helped this hobby a hundred fold at the very least. When he had that spark of an Idea, to make toy soldiers.And that spark (not taking away from W.Britain). Helped spawn this industry. And every Month the creations are reaching different heights and getting better and better.
I have met Andy, in the few times that I was able to go, on his visits to the Sierra Toy Soldier. Just before he goes to the Chicago Toy Convention. He is a very likable Man. And if someone has a negative impression of him, I just have to have my say.
And this is coming from a collector, that has not bought any K&C products in the past 18 or so Months. And if Andy or K&C is attacked, And I am aware of it.I will have my say.

Thank you for your insights. I have reviewed so many of the posts in this category and agree with parts of literally everybody's posts except out right snide comments. I have not figured out how to attach more then one quote I guess you call them yet so forgive me. Let me tell you how it makes a new guy or at least me feel when you come on board and read the negative comments on the soldier figures. It does make you feel like you were stupid frankly for buying them. I have walked back over to look at them many times to see if they were really as bad as it makes you think they are and they are not. They are marvelous. I also can see the side of accuracy as military collectors are obviously semi-fanatical on that and I can certainly understand that. I was that way about my airplanes in the service.
Here is what I say. The day I can design, model and paint anything close to this will be a great day indeed. Maybe then I will have earned the right to criticize. In the meantime I will appreciate someone that has obviously took the market by storm and produced something like this for a limited niche of old boys like us. Hats off to you Andy, these soldiers are simply awesome!! Mike

 

[Firebat]

To continue from my statement above..........

These conditions apply to no particular manufacturer:

If poorly applied decals, akward sculpts, disproportioned equiptment and weapons, lack of uniformity in size within and between manufacturers, occasional improper markings, occasional bad paint jobs and occasional lack of definition in AFV tracks are acceptable to you at a premium price then you are golden.

We are not talking rivet counting here we are talking BASIC components of a FINE MILITARY REPLICA.

I am confident all of my statements are well thought out and not overdemanding in regards to the capibilities of the industry, I have worked thoroughly with these figures and AFV's in many venues to see the faults stand out, especially when filmed. My eye can pick them out in a second and to me it detracts from the overall concept.

When I view a particular work, which was less than stellar and I see many raving about it, I then realize how varied our take on this hobby is.

Therefore discussion is futile.......

Alex

 

[Mitch]

funny that 6ft 5 person sounds awfully like the guy who has just surfaced in Canada!!!!!LOL


Alex...

Your absolutely correct when I hear people condoning sloppy work and saying they have the superglue ready it makes me shake my head. If you accept that standard then as you have said not much will change.
Mitch

Roger is not the first one to make this mistake. See below from 2005, which is also a good trip down memory lane:

 

[Peter Reuss]

This discussion has many fine points


Continued complaining: Well you have to continue complaining if the problems are not addressed. So continuing to voice the problem would be legitimate.



Alex

Continuing to complain to the manufacturers...yes. Continuing to complain on a toy soldier forum...no.

Many manufacturers do read the forum, but they recognize this is a slice of the hobby (a good sized one, yet only a slice) that does not always speak on behalf of the whole.

 

[Poppo]

Continuing to complain to the manufacturers...yes. Continuing to complain on a toy soldier forum...no.

Many manufacturers do read the forum, but they recognize this is a slice of the hobby (a good sized one, yet only a slice) that does not always speak on behalf of the whole.

Do you mean that only compliments about items and positive appreciations are allowed on this forum, and any kind of criticism banned and maybe moderated?

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Continuing to complain to the manufacturers...yes. Continuing to complain on a toy soldier forum...no.

Many manufacturers do read the forum, but they recognize this is a slice of the hobby (a good sized one, yet only a slice) that does not always speak on behalf of the whole.

There is a difference between complaining and critque. Critique is a disciplined, systematic analysis and can be positive, negative, and frequently both. Complaining isn't disciplined, systematic and often not factual - it is a usually biased rant against something and is repeated so often it becomes annoying background noise of no value. Rah Rah boosting is also a form of complaining and just as annoying. I agree there is no room on a forum to complain incessently, but without critique, there is little point to a forum. Without critique, a forum is just advertising and there is little need to belong to such a forum.

Terry

 

[Harper (aka Spitfrnd)]

There is a difference between complaining and critque. Critique is a disciplined, systematic analysis and can be positive, negative, and frequently both. Complaining isn't disciplined, systematic and often not factual - it is a usually biased rant against something and is repeated so often it becomes annoying background noise of no value. Rah Rah boosting is also a form of complaining and just as annoying. I agree there is no room on a forum to complain incessently, but without critique, there is little point to a forum. Without critique, a forum is just advertising and there is little need to belong to such a forum.

Terry

Very insightful comment, one of the best in the thread. The idea that you cannot continue to critique (I approve of your distinction) on a forum dedicated to a given subject is rather inherently contradictory, to say the least.

 

[Rob]

Continuing to complain to the manufacturers...yes. Continuing to complain on a toy soldier forum...no.

Many manufacturers do read the forum, but they recognize this is a slice of the hobby (a good sized one, yet only a slice) that does not always speak on behalf of the whole.

Yes indeed. Constant repetitive complaining does spoil the enjoyment of certain threads when the author of the thread clearly wants and even asks that the complainer take it elsewhere . Its only when this happens and the complainer totally ignores this common courtesy and basic manners that people get annoyed and it becomes obvious that the complaint is probably more of an ongoing issue or grudge that really has no place where people are trying to talk about the product they enjoy.

As for the rah rah threads they are easily identifiable and as a result it is easier for people who dislike this to ignore it than it is to ignore someone who is trying to disrupt a thread with an ongoing agenda. Now if someone starts a thread with a complaint and it is swamped with rah rah's then that too is discourteous and should not be allowed. Mitch suggested such as this yesterday and would be interesting to see how this (or if) this would work.

We all have freedom of speech here but also have to show courtesy to others, otherwise this place would soon end up with constant arguing and ill feeling. For all the arguments that sometimes occur here the language and level of bitterness is very tame indeed. A clear example of how the moderators have contributed to a much more enjoyable atmosphere is the much calmer K&C threads these days.

Finally, for those who think its not worth being a member here if they cannot ruin others enjoyment at their will , well the answer would appear obvious.:smile2:

Rob

 

[Poppo]

There is a difference between complaining and critque. Critique is a disciplined, systematic analysis and can be positive, negative, and frequently both. Complaining isn't disciplined, systematic and often not factual - it is a usually biased rant against something and is repeated so often it becomes annoying background noise of no value. Rah Rah boosting is also a form of complaining and just as annoying. I agree there is no room on a forum to complain incessently, but without critique, there is little point to a forum. Without critique, a forum is just advertising and there is little need to belong to such a forum.

Terry

Ok, since I ve been in this forum, I ve never read someone here "complaining without discipline" ( rather funny the expression though!), just for the taste of discrediting a company and without factual supports.....Everybody here writes very concrete points of views, and motivates them...What are you talking about....
The truth is that many KC supporters or sellers get very angry (for different reasons) about ANY kind of criticism on figures...


Other thing are the silly fightings about scales, and other points, I agree that someone can write his thing and leave, no need to insist..

 

[Rob]

Ok, since I ve been in this forum, I ve never read someone here "complaining without discipline" ( little funny the expression though!), just for the taste of discrediting a company and without factual supports.....Everybody here writes very concrete points of views, and motivate them...What are you talking about....
The truth is that many KC supporters or sellers get very angry (for different reasons) about ANY kind of criticism on figures...

Poppo, with respect my friend you appear to suggest Mr Warrior is making a sweeping statement without evidence whilst you make one yourself re K&C collectors? I put it to you that if you search thoroughly you will no doubt find posts that are merely insults aimed at Andy.K&C, its collectors, dealers and even people who sell on ebay, Never mind complaints!

Rob

 

[Firebat]

I am confident that when I bring points to the table they are backed by MUCH research and familarity with the products, I carefully study all of the components and how they come together when I present my work and my work is far from perfect, but I give it everything I have and I expect the same from the manufacturers.

So I would hope when it is spoken that individuals just rant I would like to not be considered part of that group.

When I provide information it is to be helpful to fellow collectors / modelers, I have a Website, Facebook Page and Forum dedicated to this.

Alex

 

[Jack]

There is a difference between complaining and critque. Critique is a disciplined, systematic analysis and can be positive, negative, and frequently both. Complaining isn't disciplined, systematic and often not factual - it is a usually biased rant against something and is repeated so often it becomes annoying background noise of no value. Rah Rah boosting is also a form of complaining and just as annoying. I agree there is no room on a forum to complain incessently, but without critique, there is little point to a forum. Without critique, a forum is just advertising and there is little need to belong to such a forum.

Terry

Terry

Quite correct but it is all in the definition. If you do not like the way K&C do their tank tracks is it critique or complaining to mention it every time they release a vehicle? If you do not like the 'P' concept does every release attract the same comment? What greater purpose underpins such a critique/criticism? Are you attempting to influence a manufacturer by constant references or are you a prophet enrolling disciples in a cause? If you say - as some have - that not one manufacturer is getting it right, by definition that means it is a battle fought between immortals through eternity. Every peice is wrong.

Do you know the scene in the movie 'The Battle of the Bulge' when the faithful driver realises that the cause and the man he has fought for threatens now to involve his sons in ceaseless warfare? He comes to understand that the cause is unworthy of his efforts, throws his helmet away and moves on.

Jack