New packaging again..... (1 Viewer)

[bricoleur]

Brad, there is also commercial depreciation with the blister package. As you know very well from the Ebay market, there is a valuedifference between a piece WITH or WITHOUT the classic foam package. If the blisterpackage has no value at all after reception, collectors are confronted with a devaluation as blisters will land into the wastebaskets. Even if paint was not flaking, collectors are loosing.
I will mail my concern to K&C, hoping others will follow up:
Eddy

 

[wadepat]

Gentle Friends,

Due to the absence of the poll suggested by Fully Automatic, I will cast my vote regarding the issue on this thread. Simply stated, I strongly prefer the traditional foam packaging! Why? Because of the validity of all the complaints that have been stated since the blister packaging made its appearence.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[sceic2]

Brad, there is also commercial depreciation with the blister package. As you know very well from the Ebay market, there is a valuedifference between a piece WITH or WITHOUT the classic foam package. If the blisterpackage has no value at all after reception, collectors are confronted with a devaluation as blisters will land into the wastebaskets. Even if paint was not flaking, collectors are loosing.
I will mail my concern to K&C, hoping others will follow up:
Eddy

Eddy you make a very good point. I recently purchased the first issue K&C US Stuart tank and paid, at least I think I did, less for it because it did not have its original box. In fairness, I also paid less because it has the rear tow hook broken off (which is not significant to me).

Inorder to save the original packaging, when in the form of blister packs, one must use a great deal more time and care in removing the figure or vehicle without causing significant damage to the packaging, if you are successful.

As time goes by I fully understand that prices must reflect cost of production and that if it costs more to cut foam to the shape of the figure or vehicle, I will adjust my budget accordingly.

I prefer the foam packaging. Will plastic ties and bubble containers stop my purchase decision? Not likely if the figure or vehicle is something I wish to purchase. However, dealers who begin to suffer multiple returns and customers who have minor damage that they decide not to bring to the dealers attention will cause the manufacturer to suffer sales losses.

 

[Mr Man]

I have seen plenty of damaged figures come out of K&C boxes since I first came across them over 10 years ago. Broken pieces, chipped paint (sometimes due to packaging, sometimes due to poor quality control). Andy may have to adjust again but, damaged pieces are nothing new in this business.

 

[bsager]

I am going to add some dealer input to this thread because it concerns me.

As a dealer when we get items returned they do cause a problem. We do not ship them back to K&C for replacement but end up selling them to some of my collectors as damaged. I have had more damaged items this year than ever before and I hope that the packaging improves. In the long run this is bad for customer service and it hurts the dealer I the profit area.

I hope Andy comes up with something.

Bill Sager

 

[jazzeum]

I think by and large he does a great job with the packaging. I think over the years you can see the quantum improvement in that respect. I must consider myself fortunate because only once or twice have I had any trouble and it was none too serious.

Again, bringing this to his attention should bring results.

 

[Dragoon]

Maybe this new packaging is Andy's way of slowing down the secondary Ebay market. It's hard to sell as mint if it can't be repackaged in the original way.
Collectors money going out on Ebay, is money not being spent on new K&C products.
After all there has been a lot of new product and very few retired sets. This can really slow down the resale on alot of the newer stuff that that has been around quite awhile, but still no hint of being retired.

This could all be a big conspiracy.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Dragoon,

Just for the record, Andy takes pride in the high resale value of K&C products. I can tell you that when he is asked to set a price for one of his very old retired pieces, he sets it HIGH!!! (believe me, I paid about twice what I thought I would pay for an extremely rare warbird when Andy set the price for the seller). He knows that high resale values draw in "investor" collectors, and add to his retail sales.

The packaging issue, I believe, is purely one of economics. For whatever reason it is cheaper from him to package the products this way. Remember, Andy's costs are going up, and he wants to cut costs where ever he can to keep his prices competitive. That being said, I disagree with this particular means of saving money, and hope that Andy realizes that (1) the safe arrival of the product and (2) the appearance of the packaging is very important to collectors.

 

[nmrocks]

With all these concerns I know the great customer service I get from K&C directly.
I think it is incumbent on us all to notify K&C directly, as opposed to the dealer to let them know of damaged, sealed items.
This is the fastest way to have this issue addressed.
Ray
just drop an e-mail to the sales department, I'm sure it will generate a reply.

 

[OzDigger]

I also recall Andy C posting something to the effect that the new (wire-tie) packaging was a cost cutting response to increased production costs. I also recall me saying that wire-ties would cause increased damage to pieces unless sufficient foam was used to prevent it.

Clearly this has not occured, and based on most responses below I suspect several of our members must be in the Peace Corps. I would be mad as hell if I received an expensive collectable that was damaged because of inadequate packaging designed to cut costs. These damaged products should be returned to the place of purchase asap. The dealer (seller) should subsequently claim any losses from their distributor or the manufacturer. That is how the system works, why would K & C be any different? The manufacturer then has the option to keep paying damage claims or change production in some way - they usually do the later

 

[Njja]

Maybe this new packaging is Andy's way of slowing down the secondary Ebay market. It's hard to sell as mint if it can't be repackaged in the original way.
Collectors money going out on Ebay, is money not being spent on new K&C products.
After all there has been a lot of new product and very few retired sets. This can really slow down the resale on alot of the newer stuff that that has been around quite awhile, but still no hint of being retired.

This could all be a big conspiracy.

Bingo! You win the prize!

Dealers we never heard of......people listing items at .99 and selling them

far below dealer cost? Its all designed to destroy the secondary market.

Now the real question is why?

That answer escapes me.....but I have watched it crash steadly over the

last 6 months.

I'm glad someone finally had the courage to mention it.

Njja

 

[noli-poli]

I received my German Motorcycle w/ Sidecar today. Everything was intact and had no problems removing the ties. You just need to straighten them when re-packing the item. I also received my 3 Ambu-Jeep, German/French SPG, Commander's Conference (WS 73). As expected, great K&C quality!
N-P

 

[jazzeum]

I don't see the retired market crashing especially on the really old items. When you have a motorcycle going for $860, much more than before, I don't see that as a crash. If you've got certain items in mind, I'd love to hear 'em.

 

[Njja]

I don't see the retired market crashing especially on the really old items. When you have a motorcycle going for $860, much more than before, I don't see that as a crash. If you've got certain items in mind, I'd love to hear 'em.

Well why not start with the WS37 Krupp Truck that ended at 0 and could have been had for $295. This piece has easily topped $500 many times and even brought $645.

WS25 sold for $330 this piece has topped this price 6 times and brought over $500 on several occasions.

WS33 sold for $260 this piece has topped this price 7 times clearing $600 once.

WB02 sold for $229 this piece has topped this price 7 times clearing $300 several times.

To say nothing of IWJ11 which brought $225 this piece is not seen very often has topped this price 5 times and brought over $600 once.

It is true Gideon did well with his motorcycles which are usually popular but generally speaking I have watched prices steadly decline since last november when they were really doing well.

Njja

Hope I gave enough examples.

 

[jazzeum]

For all the examples you cite, I can mention others such as the $392 that a DD 05 recently brought, way above the norm. What about the approximately $1500 that a WS 04G brought. Back in February that hit $700 or so.

In other words neither of us may be wrong or completely right because the market has no consistency. New players (and I'm seeing those) change that. In addition, the retired market operates independent of current items.

Lastly, I think we all know the market is overinflated. $600 for a Krupp truck is in my view not its true market value.

 

[vandilay]

I,ve only had a couple of sets in the new packaging both have had minor paint chips,
I also think the foam style britains etc use is the best method.
The new style does look a little cheap and nasty also,but i can
understand why they have tried it.

 

[Pierre]

For all the examples you cite, I can mention others such as the $392 that a DD 05 recently brought, way above the norm. What about the approximately $1500 that a WS 04G brought. Back in February that hit $700 or so.

In other words neither of us may be wrong or completely right because the market has no consistency. New players (and I'm seeing those) change that. In addition, the retired market operates independent of current items.

Lastly, I think we all know the market is overinflated. $600 for a Krupp truck is in my view not its true market value.

It is clear now that we can't talk market value for an item. Lastly, the FJ02 set went near or over 255,00$, just because 2 bidders were fighting for it like there is no tomorrow. It was the same for the WS04G set; it was even a subject in the eBay thread.

An item worths what somebody is ready to pay at a certain moment. As a buyer, you hope that you will be alone; as a seller, you hope that there will be more than one buyer. It sounds like some La Palice's words but it's the reality.

Another reality is that the value of our collection is devaluated now by what seems to be the new politic (system) of retirements (no more or very, very few) and Strictly Limited Edition at 1 250 exemplaries. Some "saints" applauded that attempt from K&C to divert the secondry market money to the company but they do not realize that their collection (value) is suffering from that. It is us, the greedy eBayers, that give appreciation to their little soldiers. Without secondary market, no profits.

Oh, I can hear them right now: "I don't collect for increasement but for the joy of it" while in another thread they will complaint about the bubble packs and the ties that chip the paint and affect the value of their item. Please make a choice and stand with it.

Pierre.

P.S. I am not pointing at Brad in that last remark.

 

[bsager]

I am going to add another comment to this thread that I left out on my previous comment.

If a dealer has a claim for a damaged item Andy will be happy to replace it at no charge to the dealer. I have had Andy send me replacements before in the past. K&C stands behind their product and their dealer.

In the past 5 years of being a dealer in the first 4 years I had only 2-3 claims from customers on damaged items. This past year I have had about 5. Not an alarming amount for the quantity of sets I sell. I belong to a local Toy Soldiers club which has several retired gentleman that belong to it. I like to take these damaged pieces to them and sell them to them for a dollar. These men could never afford K&C because of the income they have. They really like tinkering with toy soldiers and like getting the K&C pieces that I have. They fix them and paint them and then bring them to the meetings to show their handy work.

The long story short is that any manufacturer has claims for damage at some point in time and K&C is no different. It's how the support from the manufacturer works that makes them what they are and K&C gives us the support we need. So if you have a damaged item send it back to your dealer and have it replaced. I would assume all dealers do this for their customers? I know I do.

Bill Sager

 

[boot51]

It is clear now that we can't talk market value for an item. Lastly, the FJ02 set went near or over 255,00$, just because 2 bidders were fighting for it like there is no tomorrow. It was the same for the WS04G set; it was even a subject in the eBay thread.

An item worths what somebody is ready to pay at a certain moment. As a buyer, you hope that you will be alone; as a seller, you hope that there will be more than one buyer. It sounds like some La Palice's words but it's the reality.

Another reality is that the value of our collection is devaluated now by what seems to be the new politic (system) of retirements (no more or very, very few) and Strictly Limited Edition at 1 250 exemplaries. Some "saints" applauded that attempt from K&C to divert the secondry market money to the company but they do not realize that their collection (value) is suffering from that. It is us, the greedy eBayers, that give appreciation to their little soldiers. Without secondary market, no profits.

Oh, I can hear them right now: "I don't collect for increasement but for the joy of it" while in another thread they will complaint about the bubble packs and the ties that chip the paint and affect the value of their item. Please make a choice and stand with it.

Pierre.

P.S. I am not pointing at Brad in that last remark.

Peirre

When did you ever hear me complain about resale value of a K&C item? My complaint is with this hideous method of packaging and the damage, inconvience and expense, both in time and money, it can cause collectors and dealers. I am a collector who buys K&C because I enjoy collecting quality items, items that don't come with chipped paint! That is and always has been my stand.

Fred

 

[Fullyautomatic]

Thanks Bill for answering my question in regards to the dealer end of things and returns. I was unaware of K&C's policy towards its dealers in that aspect of damaged product and returns. It seems most of the damage reports have been on the WWII sets but I have heard of the Napoleonic's having their fair share of broken flag standards and horses legs.. Ouch!!