New Twist for Honour Bound (1 Viewer)

[maddadicus]

Are the price increases in effect immediately including products already in stock at Dealers? Is it like gas prices that kick in that day even though dealers paid a lower price for the supply ordered? Leadmen

I have the same question. I have been saving to buy the Winter soup kitchen collection. Some of these sets have only been out a short time. Will any dealer allow a grace period for the old prices. Otherwise, I will not buy any of these items. To put a set out or announce a set within a short window and then announce a major price increase does not make for present or future customer good will. George, Shannon, anyone ,will you hold the old price for a set time ,to allow us to purchase these sets .....? Michael

 

[Wraith]

Are the price increases in effect immediately including products already in stock at Dealers? Is it like gas prices that kick in that day even though dealers paid a lower price for the supply ordered? Leadmen

A quick check would seem to indicate that the prices are now in effect. There are a few bits on ebay that are still on sale pre price hike.

 

[maddadicus]

A quick check would seem to indicate that the prices are now in effect. There are a few bits on ebay that are still on sale pre price hike.

If that is the case, they have lost my future business. I can understand an increase for future releases, but to blindside the collector on no notice for recent releases and promised releases is not right. Michael

 

[jrsteel]

Ana,

You have to do what you need to do to stay in business. No one likes it but there it is.

Doug,

Is it completely necessary to go out of your way to try to knock King and Country. I happen to like both companies as well as Figarti. All the companies have their adherents, many of whom buy from all three. I thought most of us had gone beyond that phase. Can't we emphasize the positive instead of the negative?

Brad, funny you never seem to have a problem when K&C collectors constantly bash other toy soldier lines on this forum.

 

[boot51]

Hi Ana, I guess I find myself in about in the same position as Michael (maddadicus). I too have seriously considered purchasing the winter food line set and one of the infantry sets too, I've also thought about buying another winter panther(if I could convince you to put another number on the turret so it would differ from the one I already own), but how can I justify to myself paying $125 for a figure set today that I could have (should have?) bought yesterday for $95. Or worse yet, justify paying $190 for the very same tank I purchased a few short months ago for $145. That's pretty steep for a tank and two or three crew members. I've been a big supporter of HB right from the start, your vehicles, and more recently your figures too, are second to none and better than most, and I wish you and HB all the best for a healthy and financially successful future, but I only have a limited amount of resources to devote to this hobby and I'm afraid this kind of price increase has put HB out of my reach.

Fred

 

[jazzeum]

Brad, funny you never seem to have a problem when K&C collectors constantly bash other toy soldier lines on this forum.

I don't recall other collectors doing that. Speaking for me I've been quite complimentary as to what the people at Britains (which I believe is one of your primary interests) are doing. What I see is a lot of collectors interested in a lot of different sizes and companies without having to throw a lot of brick a bracks.

 

[jazzeum]

A quick check would seem to indicate that the prices are now in effect. There are a few bits on ebay that are still on sale pre price hike.

Simon is correct. I noticed this afternoon that the price for the new kitchen was $155, it's now $180. That's on my want list so I'm going to have to suck it up.

 

[jrsteel]

I don't recall other collectors doing that. Speaking for me I've been quite complimentary as to what the people at Britains (which I believe is one of your primary interests) are doing. What I see is a lot of collectors interested in a lot of different sizes and companies without having to throw a lot of brick a bracks.

Fair enough. I have seen complimentary posts about Britains from you. But a lot of the tone from the K&C guys on this forum is that if it isn't K&C it sucks. Which is silly. My main collection is Britains but I try and get sets from all different makers. Anyway I don't want to steer this thread from it's original topic. I don't collect vehicles but if you look at figure makers like Imperial from New Zealand, Wm. Hocker from California, Tradition of London etc. Those figures cost a lot more than the companies that produce their figures in China. I think you're paying for quality. Imperial were like little works of art and it was appealing that they were handmade in New Zealand rather than mass produced in some Chinese factory.

 

[jazzeum]

JR,

I believe we're in agreement there. I think it's unfortunate when that "if it's not K & C, it's not good" happens. Believe it or not (and I'm not trying to suck up ) but I started to learn something when I started reading your posts after I had initially criticized the glossy toy soldier. Since then, I've come to appreciate them more and I actually like them quite a bit. I am a bit of a K & C nut but whenever I have the chance, I get the old K & C glossies and I really like them. Just got in two sets of the old Seaforths and there is something very appealing in the traditional toy soldier. The K & C glossies have made me start to look at Trophy and I'm sure when I get some of those (if I can find the money), other companies won't be far behind.

 

[maddadicus]

I have the same question. I have been saving to buy the Winter soup kitchen collection. Some of these sets have only been out a short time. Will any dealer allow a grace period for the old prices. Otherwise, I will not buy any of these items. To put a set out or announce a set within a short window and then announce a major price increase does not make for present or future customer good will. George, Shannon, anyone ,will you hold the old price for a set time ,to allow us to purchase these sets .....? Michael

I want to get this question back on track. A number of us will buy ,but not at the new prices....Michael

 

[victory]

I can understand HB is steered by bottom line but the result in my opinion will not be good. I hope I'm wrong and wish them luck. I would feel nervous as HB, banking everthing on limited editions. K&C's limited editions do go for $200.00 and collectors are going for them, but limited editions aren't K&C bread and butter so to speak.

 

[jrsteel]

JR,

I believe we're in agreement there. I think it's unfortunate when that "if it's not K & C, it's not good" happens. Believe it or not (and I'm not trying to suck up ) but I started to learn something when I started reading your posts after I had initially criticized the glossy toy soldier. Since then, I've come to appreciate them more and I actually like them quite a bit. I am a bit of a K & C nut but whenever I have the chance, I get the old K & C glossies and I really like them. Just got in two sets of the old Seaforths and there is something very appealing in the traditional toy soldier. The K & C glossies have made me start to look at Trophy and I'm sure when I get some of those (if I can find the money), other companies won't be far behind.

Brad if you ever get a chance, I'd like to see photos of the K&C glossies.

 

[wadepat]

Gentle Friends,

The price increases seem very abrupt. However, what strikes me as interesting is that if a K&C WWII item were retired, you might quickly see these sorts of increases in the secondary market. And,...many collectors would be excited to have purchased the item at the higher price. Yes, I know that upon set retirement, the supply becomes fixed, which is not the case with HB, but I doubt that HB wants to store an excessive amount of stock, which may be one reason they have decided to limit the total number of each set they produce.

The move that HB has announced makes some financial sense to me. Unfortunately for collectors, there was no advanced notice of a forthcoming price increase. I wish there had been such a notice.

I have one last editorial comment to add, which I know will get me into hot water with many of you, but I am going to make it anyway. For months, I have read comment after comment about the "need" to improve the detailing of figures and vehicles. All these improvements result in increased production costs to the manufacturer, which must be passed on to the consumer if the company is to remain healthy. HB has succeeded in making many of the improvements that have been suggested and they have provided many collectors with what they have requested. Now, those collectors have to pay the price in order to obtain the items and improvements they have demanded. If you want the quality product that HB offers, then you must pay the price. If you are not willing to pay the price, then look to other manufacturers for your purchases.

Now, having made such bold comments, I wish all of you peace. And,...I wish Honour Bound success in their attempts to produce a quality product at a fair price.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[Pierre]

...I have one last editorial comment to add, which I know will get me into hot water with many of you, but I am going to make it anyway. For months, I have read comment after comment about the "need" to improve the detailing of figures and vehicles. All these improvements result in increased production costs to the manufacturer, which must be passed on to the consumer if the company is to remain healthy. HB has succeeded in making many of the improvements that have been suggested and they have provided many collectors with what they have requested. Now, those collectors have to pay the price in order to obtain the items and improvements they have demanded. If you want the quality product that HB offers, then you must pay the price. If you are not willing to pay the price, then look to other manufacturers for your purchases...

Pat

Pat-

You can't be in hot water 'cause you're making a true statement. And I am also concern about the Beau Geste prices.

Amitiés,
Pierre.

 

[boot51]

Gentle Friends,

I have one last editorial comment to add, which I know will get me into hot water with many of you, but I am going to make it anyway. For months, I have read comment after comment about the "need" to improve the detailing of figures and vehicles. All these improvements result in increased production costs to the manufacturer, which must be passed on to the consumer if the company is to remain healthy. HB has succeeded in making many of the improvements that have been suggested and they have provided many collectors with what they have requested. Now, those collectors have to pay the price in order to obtain the items and improvements they have demanded. If you want the quality product that HB offers, then you must pay the price. If you are not willing to pay the price, then look to other manufacturers for your purchases.


Pat

Pat, what you say is perfectly reasonable and valid, the problem with the statement is HB prices were already higher, when K&C tanks were selling for $89-$99, HB's were $125-$155. When K&C made improvements to their tracks the prices went to $115-$119. Look, I'm not knocking Honour Bound, they gave us the tracks and detail we were clamoring for and I've loved their product from the start and wish them the best of luck, but I won't buy the three or four sets I was planning on at the higher prices. I hope someday in the future they can get their production, distribution, and financial house in order and get back to producing a quality produce at an affordable price, until then I'll have to look elsewhere. Sorry Ana, I truly want to be a loyal Honour Bound customer, but my pockets aren't that deep. I wish you well.

Fred

 

[Rob]

Does seem a shame doesn't it.?From what i've seen the quality seem to be spot on and at an affordable price.They looked like they were one of the few real contenders to K&C,it will be interesting to see just how many people stick with them.I wish them good luck and am waiting with interest to see the jeeps,may still be tempted.

Rob

 

[desk11desk12]

HB has infused wonderful innovation, creativity and quality not seen in this market segment since KC changed their sculpting and painting processes some 5-7 years ago. That is why I have purchased about 90%+ of all of there models since they started some 10 months ago and have enjoyed them greatly along side my KC collection but it hasn’t come without a cost; literally.

I knew this had to happen with HB since they don't have the financial position to subsidize the huge cost differential that exists between manufacturing in Argentina compared to China and they shouldn't be expected too either. I understand the economic necessity but will it accomplish its objective; time will tell.

If this happens, HB WILL NOT SURVIVE UNLESS they become a “boutique operation” with limited production with the perceived quality rivaling the best of the Russian manufacturers (e.g. St. Petersburg). That will take time to accomplish since they aren’t there yet.

It’s my opinion, this isn’t good for the collector since KC will feel compelled to raise there prices (I would) at rate less than HB and leverage their financial and means of production advantage further and drive KC’s profitability even higher levels at the expense of the collector public and frankly HB’s.

Prices have gone up markedly over the last year and I’m sure justifiably due to the cost of labor in China and energy costs. A year ago, the 1/30 market was eagerly anticipating new rival entries (HB, NMA and even Collector Showcase) injecting new enthusiasm and creativity in the market place.

However, the brutal truth is this is still a business and KC has effectively, tenaciously, and innovatively leveraged its advantage (market share position, financial/ production critical mass and Andy's instincts and tireless promotion) over there rivals to provide collectors what they want and earn there business.

KC, from a capitalistic point of view you’re doing all of the right things and I applaud you since I believe in these principals too.

But is this good for the industry, having a “de-facto” single source provider with such dominance?

Carlos

 

[boot51]

Terrific observations Carlos, and I fear they're probably right on the mark too. One of my first thoughts when I heard of this price increase was what a golden opportunity this is for K&C to bump their pirces up 10-15% and they'd still seem cheap on a comparative basis, bigger market share, higher prices, more profits, how good can get for K&C. And how bad can it get for the collector, all this competition was was supposed to be a good thing for the hobby, looks like just the reverse is likely to happen.

fred

 

[Rob]

Hey Fred,do you think that HB is/was a real competitor for K&C then?.Its just i got the impression(rightly or wrongly)that apart from the whole tank track debate K&C were far ahead of the game.I thought HB would have had a much smaller share and not been a huge threat?.

Rob

 

[Pierre]

...It’s my opinion, this isn’t good for the collector since KC will feel compelled to raise there prices (I would) at rate less than HB and leverage their financial and means of production advantage further and drive KC’s profitability even higher levels at the expense of the collector public and frankly HB’s...

...However, the brutal truth is this is still a business and KC has effectively, tenaciously, and innovatively leveraged its advantage (market share position, financial/ production critical mass and Andy's instincts and tireless promotion) over there rivals to provide collectors what they want and earn there business...



Carlos

Hi Carlos-

In my opinion, two things made the success of K&C: the quality of the products and their low prices. Take off one of the two and a lot of collectors will stop buying K&C or will buy a lot less.

For instance, I will not increase my budget for collecting and a too brutal increase in the prices will definitely affects my enthusiasm at a point that I will stop collecting.

As example, I was very, very, very disappointed when I received my Chinese Horse and Carriage set (IC029) and found that the horse is not in metal but (probably) in polystone. In fact, no matter the material, it looks like in plastic and I really hate that and I can't beleive that I was force to pay 99,00$US for that. I am buying miniatures not toys. Why not increasing the price at a reasonable level and take a less profit? Anyway, I cancelled my order for the four camels as I heard that they are not in metal and if it is the case I will certainly not buy them.

Pierre.