Next New Line (2 Viewers)

[FirstLegion]

Guys,

Sincere thanks for the responses.
As I said and I'll repeat again, I'm not having a "dig" at any individuals or anyone's collecting preferences. My sole intention was to stimulate conversation and maybe get us all thinking about possible other directions we might want FL to go into.
I think the choices presented in this poll are extremely well thought out and offer a good variety of alternatives to the usual lines that other manufacturers already offer and do so well.
I'm certainly not moaning about anyone's vote in the poll and do apologise if that's how my comments come across.

Regards
Harry

Actually, Harry, I think that your question makes a lot of sense and I don't think anyone would take it as a "dig." From a collectors perspective it does make sense that if a new range is in the cards, why not have it be something you can't get from anywhere else? Of course, the flip side to this is that a lot of collectors would like to see their favorite ranges done in our style. As a manufacturer I think that a balance needs to be struck between ranges that will almost guarantee success due to their overall popularity and ranges that are a bit more of a risk because they might be untested or about lesser known or studied periods of history. I have to commend K&C on this as they make not only the big/popular periods but also have branched out and made some less well known or unexpected stuff as well. Of course, they are a long established company and as such have the luxury to take such risks, some of which I'm sure have paid off handsomely and others probably less so, and have had the time to produce all of those ranges. Time is a big factor as these figures don't make themselves overnight and any range requires a lot of research, planning, and investment long before it ever hits the market. As such, ranges must really be carefully chosen and how well a range might be received and how popular it will be is certainly a major consideration. There are other considerations that are important, but generally speaking sales is king.

In terms of voting on polls such as these, if you look at any of the polls about anything the voting typically breaks down along the same lines with most folks voting for what their interests are. It's pretty natural that this would be the case. Of course, your point is well taken that there are several people favoring FIW for example, but will they be disappointed if we do it and then the figures aren't the same size or style as Jenkins who dominates that period? My guess is that there would be some of that and that there would also be some folks who just love the period and don't care one way or another and would buy the figures for what they are, not for what they are compatible with. We don't design to be compatible with other companies nor do we design to not be compatible. We just do what we do and leave the compatibility issues to you all to sort out.

In the end, our thinking is to try to strike a balance between sticking to the tried and true and branching out into less well covered but still interesting periods. In both cases, the goal would be to create ranges that would be extremely popular and thus generate the highest sales possible. The tried and true ranges have more predictable sales while the less well covered ranges are more of a big risk/big reward model where it has the potential to be a disaster or the potential to be a massive success. With a company as new as we are, a disaster would not be a good thing! That being said, I think we'll surprise a lot of people as well. Suffice it to say, in terms of the direcion First Legion will take, I think that there will be a bit of predictability in some instances and a bit of risk taking in others. In both cases, however, I feel that the products will speak for themselves and will be worth collecting regardless of whether everyone else is doing it with a predictable range or whether it's a range of a lesser produced or less well known period. For better or worse, we tend to believe that the quality of the product and the completeness or depth of the range is possibly more important than the (perceived) popularity of the period. Well supported ranges of beautiful figures tend to sell regardless of their period and can have the effect of creating their own market.

Anyway, all of this is a long way off, but it is interesting to see what periods excite people.

 

[Spitfrnd]

I went for Mongols - surprise, surprise.


No offence, but personally speaking and for the life of me, I simply can't understand why on this poll in particular, anyone would vote for AWI, FIW, ACW, or any WWII subjects, or even Boxer Rebellion, (which I'm sure will come as no surprise whatsoever to my friends here - actually has an interest rating of 10/10 as far as I'm concerned).
These eras are already well covered by other mainstream toy soldier manufacturing companies, indeed WWII is at saturation level - just my opinion "green tank guys".
....?
Or Romans, for that matter? Another manufacturer already has an excellent range of figures for this era which are available for those who want them.
......

With respect Sir Harry, while promising and nice in their own unique way, the current Roman line is not supported at present, is a unique size, has no adversaries and has no sign of growing. I'd say there was room for this one for sure.

 

[Rob]

I went for Mongols - surprise, surprise.


No offence, but personally speaking and for the life of me, I simply can't understand why on this poll in particular, anyone would vote for AWI, FIW, ACW, or any WWII subjects, or even Boxer Rebellion, (which I'm sure will come as no surprise whatsoever to my friends here - actually has an interest rating of 10/10 as far as I'm concerned).
These eras are already well covered by other mainstream toy soldier manufacturing companies, indeed WWII is at saturation level - just my opinion "green tank guys".
Over the past 6 weeks or so we've seen a brand new TS company go the WWII route with a splendid debut set of figures, and good luck to them.
Indeed, we've just seen the masters of another well-established toy maker's superb new mounted WWI range, so why should FL even go there?
Or Romans, for that matter? Another manufacturer already has an excellent range of figures for this era which are available for those who want them.

My questions, that will hopefully be food for thought, are;

Why should an innovative miniature figurine company like First Legion go down these well-trodden routes as illustrated above - and then run the risk of attracting negative comments related to scale, incompatability with other toy makers products, and all the rest of it?
Looking at the poll results so far, aren't we just seeing collectors voting for their favourite eras instead of applying just a wee bit of "out of the box" thinking? Surely, given FL's stellar level of sculpting and subtle paintwork, it would be far preferable for us to be suggesting and voting for some of the more unusual and colourful choices in the poll? Something like a historical Vlad the Impaller range as suggested by Mark? Or an El Cid range? Or a Trojan War series with all the characters and personalities from Homer that fire the imagination?

I'm not having a "dig" at any collectors choice of era, and I'm a big fan of "green tanks" myself. I just feel it's a bit disappointing that we as a group of individuals appear to keep voting for the same old stuff that, as I've previously pointed out, is already available. Sure, fans of WWII "can never get enough Tiger Tanks" but I feel its such a waste of the talents of First Legion's team of sculptors and painters, and the level of realism exhibited by the figures they produce, that when we get the chance we can't ask that they do something a bit less mainstream than the poll results suggest. Especially when there's so many interesting alternative choices provided in the poll itself.

Granted, my own collecting focus tends to jump around from era to era as the whim takes me - and I fully understand why people may want to vote for the conflicts that interests them the most and they prefer to collect.
This post is not intended to be confrontational in any way and believe me, to ensure I don't "offend" any overly-sensitive wee souls reading it, I've applied a bit more care to the composition and wording than I can usually be bothered paying much attention to; but it is certainly intended to promote some additional thought and general discussion concerning the direction we might prefer First Legion to take.
I look forward to participating in any reasonable discussion and responses, whether they be positive or negative, that these comments may generate.

Regards
Harry

Sorry guys,had to join in here!.Harold, Sir Harold of Scotshire esteemed and respected member of Ye Olde forum.Its always sus when you start a post 'No offence' mate,because it often means the exact opposite.You can't for the Life of you see why we would want FL to cover World War 2 when its covered elsewhere.Now to you we are just 'Green Tank guys' (its actually about the different Tanks produced in WW2 not the colour)i think you perhaps underestimate the interest and passion the subject holds for many people.The fact that it is well covered does not mean we do not want other companies to dip their toe so to speak.For instance (i am not going to name producers here on Matts thread so work with me here)Shermans have been produced for years,then just a matter of weeks ago another producer releases what is rightly acclaimed as the best version of this tank ever produced.So what would stop FL producing another even better version?.

The same can be said of Fallschirmjagers,again produced for years and then wammo!.Out came a set last week that is both superb and very popular.You yourself proclaimed the quality of these new FJ's and you were spot on,but do you think FL wouldn't be able to produce FJ's that would be both very realistic and hugely popular?.Take my friend James,he has more FJ's than Hitler had on Crete!.Different camo's,different producers,its all about the passion for the subject mate.I now have four different version of the Sherman,but if Matt said that on Monday morning he's releasing a Calliope version i'd be bashing his front door down with my mother in law!.

I think there are possibly more producers of Napoleonics than of WW2 (or very many anyway)but that doesn't mean new producers should be discouraged,more choice is better for us collectors.I think maybe that as you have such a wonderfully colourful and ecletic collection you perhaps think that more 'Green Army men' are not as worthy and by FL making them it may take away from the stuff you'd like produced,but from what i've seen FL is a growing company and perfectly able to apeal to different conflicts.

Now if Matt does one day dip his realistic toe into the British Commando's i'm there,there is only one supplier that i know of these and they have been retired.So if you are listening Matt

What i'm trying to say is there is always room for many eras in my view.

Just my opinion old fruit,and i look forward to your reply denouncing me as a heretic,fanatic,hypnotized Bas****!.I will be insulted if you don't!!

Rob

 

[Mister Dave]

Having just traveled a bit of the Lewis and Clark trail through So. Dakota, I'd love to see FL tackle a small Corps of Discovery 1804 range. I'm surprised at how little attention this significant event has had in the TS world to date.

MD

 

[Harrytheheid]

Sorry guys,had to join in here!.Harold, Sir Harold of Scotshire esteemed and respected member of Ye Olde forum.Its always sus when you start a post 'No offence' mate,because it often means the exact opposite.You can't for the Life of you see why we would want FL to cover World War 2 when its covered elsewhere.Now to you we are just 'Green Tank guys' (its actually about the different Tanks produced in WW2 not the colour)i think you perhaps underestimate the interest and passion the subject holds for many people.The fact that it is well covered does not mean we do not want other companies to dip their toe so to speak.For instance (i am not going to name producers here on Matts thread so work with me here)Shermans have been produced for years,then just a matter of weeks ago another producer releases what is rightly acclaimed as the best version of this tank ever produced.So what would stop FL producing another even better version?.

The same can be said of Fallschirmjagers,again produced for years and then wammo!.Out came a set last week that is both superb and very popular.You yourself proclaimed the quality of these new FJ's and you were spot on,but do you think FL wouldn't be able to produce FJ's that would be both very realistic and hugely popular?.Take my friend James,he has more FJ's than Hitler had on Crete!.Different camo's,different producers,its all about the passion for the subject mate.I now have four different version of the Sherman,but if Matt said that on Monday morning he's releasing a Calliope version i'd be bashing his front door down with my mother in law!.

I think there are possibly more producers of Napoleonics than of WW2 (or very many anyway)but that doesn't mean new producers should be discouraged,more choice is better for us collectors.I think maybe that as you have such a wonderfully colourful and ecletic collection you perhaps think that more 'Green Army men' are not as worthy and by FL making them it may take away from the stuff you'd like produced,but from what i've seen FL is a growing company and perfectly able to apeal to different conflicts.

Now if Matt does one day dip his realistic toe into the British Commando's i'm there,there is only one supplier that i know of these and they have been retired.So if you are listening Matt

What i'm trying to say is there is always room for many eras in my view.

Just my opinion old fruit,and i look forward to your reply denouncing me as a heretic,fanatic,hypnotized Bas****!.I will be insulted if you don't!!

Rob

No Rob,
I'm not trying to insult you, or anyone else, and I've stated that several times now because I knew that I would either deliberately or inadvertently be misconstrued no matter how I wrote my original post. Nor am I going to repeat an apology that I had hoped would prevent exactly the sort of discussion that I in turn wanted to avoid having to reply to. However, be that as it may, your lengthy and I believe somewhat....not angry - but getting darn close to it, post shall receive the response it deserves.

My entire point that you seem to have missed, or maybe that ought to be mist, and with due respect to Mister FL, whose post I still have to digest in detail, having simply speed-read it in order to respond to your message Rob - Umm, where was I? Oh yeah - my entire point was;

Leaving aside just for a moment, (cos I'm going to return to it), the whole issue of "making a profit", I question why FL should sink time and resources into repeating ranges that are covered perfectly adequately by other manufacturers. I'm not having a "dig" at, for example, WWII or FIW collectors - if you've noticed, I myself have a few examples of various manufacturers products from these eras, plus I'm a "green tank guy" myself - and you personally know the reason why I've gone to the time and expense of shacking up in a hotel in Beijing for almost an entire week at the moment. If I wasn't a "green tank guy" then why would I do it? And by the way "GTG" is just a generic term for people such as you and I anyway and if it causes some kind of offence (?), then I've just insulted myself....


As Matt himself has hinted at, the fact that FL decided to do a WWII range could well be due to the economics inherent to the miniature figurine business - it's certainly none of my business why they decided to branch out into this era. But that takes me back to the point I was making which is that I for one would rather see them doing something different such as several of the alternative options suggested in the poll. Yes, that's just my opinion, but its also my opinion that although WWII isn't included (thank goodness), several of the other categories in the poll are already well served by other manufacturers.

I'm honestly not picking on you or other WWII collectors Rob, but you've just acquired a tank you've wanted for years, and you almost immediately ask your favourite manufacturer if he's planning on producing the exact same bl**dy tank..!!
A new WWII manufacturer hits the ground running with some excellent FJ figures and again, almost immediately, you ask your favourite manufacturer if he has plans to release more FJ's this year..??
Are you, and others who repeatedly ask for the same stuff over and over again, going to buy FL's excellent Stug? Or are you going to wait for your favourite manufacturer to produce yet another version of those that have already been produced over and over again in polystone, cos it'll be just a wee bit cheaper than what FL will have on the market? If not just quite as good.

When is enough - ever enough?
And when are those of us who are interested in, or want to develop an interest in different eras ever going to get the chance to acquire them, if companies such as FL keep getting inundated with requests for stuff that is already available, and in the case of WWII repeated over and over again?
I fully understand that you and possibly a majority of other collectors on this forum seem to be primarily focused on D-Day, Bulge, Desert War and Arnhem. That's all fine and dandy, so am I on at least two of those particular eras, but what about the other conflicts during WWII? Why not petition your favourite manufacturer to "give us" China-Burma-India, or ask the UK based dealership to emulate a USA based dealership and commission some sets for the early Pacific War such as the Japanese invasion of the Philippines which for me at least, is just as relevant to those other WWII conflicts I've previously mentioned, and I would venture to suggest even more vicious, for those who like that kind of thing.
That would at least leave the way clear for those of us who would like to see FL or anyone else for that matter "give us" the opportunity to collect some of the excellent alternatives offered in this poll.

Getting back to the issue of "making a profit", which I'll just briefly touch on here; yes - of course anyone in any manufacturing business needs to make a profit - especially in the TS line. Otherwise how else would we see the quite magnificent progress and evolution in quality and choice that we are presently being offered by the mainstream players? That almost goes without saying, and Rob, those quite superb Australian Light Horsemen figures and their adversaries that your favourite manufacturer has in the pipeline means that I will 99% for sure go for the entire range.
Funny that - innit..??

Best Regards and No Offence Intended.

Harry

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Sorry guys,had to join in here!.Harold, Sir Harold of Scotshire esteemed and respected member of Ye Olde forum.Its always sus when you start a post 'No offence' mate,because it often means the exact opposite.You can't for the Life of you see why we would want FL to cover World War 2 when its covered elsewhere.Now to you we are just 'Green Tank guys' (its actually about the different Tanks produced in WW2 not the colour)i think you perhaps underestimate the interest and passion the subject holds for many people.The fact that it is well covered does not mean we do not want other companies to dip their toe so to speak.For instance (i am not going to name producers here on Matts thread so work with me here)Shermans have been produced for years,then just a matter of weeks ago another producer releases what is rightly acclaimed as the best version of this tank ever produced.So what would stop FL producing another even better version?.

The same can be said of Fallschirmjagers,again produced for years and then wammo!.Out came a set last week that is both superb and very popular.You yourself proclaimed the quality of these new FJ's and you were spot on,but do you think FL wouldn't be able to produce FJ's that would be both very realistic and hugely popular?.Take my friend James,he has more FJ's than Hitler had on Crete!.Different camo's,different producers,its all about the passion for the subject mate.I now have four different version of the Sherman,but if Matt said that on Monday morning he's releasing a Calliope version i'd be bashing his front door down with my mother in law!.

I think there are possibly more producers of Napoleonics than of WW2 (or very many anyway)but that doesn't mean new producers should be discouraged,more choice is better for us collectors.I think maybe that as you have such a wonderfully colourful and ecletic collection you perhaps think that more 'Green Army men' are not as worthy and by FL making them it may take away from the stuff you'd like produced,but from what i've seen FL is a growing company and perfectly able to apeal to different conflicts.

Now if Matt does one day dip his realistic toe into the British Commando's i'm there,there is only one supplier that i know of these and they have been retired.So if you are listening Matt

What i'm trying to say is there is always room for many eras in my view.

Just my opinion old fruit,and i look forward to your reply denouncing me as a heretic,fanatic,hypnotized Bas****!.I will be insulted if you don't!!

Rob

I agree that there is room for the same range by different manufacturers. The key point is a strong interest in a particular range or sub-range. Mine happen to be all WW2 armour with some supporting figures but especially North Afrika including Italian armour, Invasion of France, Eastern front including Russian armour and the battles for western Europe in 1944-45, especially Battle of the Bulge.

I also have several Tigers and Shermans and would love to see some Sherman specials. And if someone released a Calliope version I'd bash his front door down with Rob's mother in law too!

Terry

 

[Rob]

I agree that there is room for the same range by different manufacturers. The key point is a strong interest in a particular range or sub-range. Mine happen to be all WW2 armour with some supporting figures but especially North Afrika including Italian armour, Invasion of France, Eastern front including Russian armour and the battles for western Europe in 1944-45, especially Battle of the Bulge.

I also have several Tigers and Shermans and would love to see some Sherman specials. And if someone released a Calliope version I'd bash his front door down with Rob's mother in law too!

Terry

You could try!

Rob

 

[Harrytheheid]

With respect Sir Harry, while promising and nice in their own unique way, the current Roman line is not supported at present, is a unique size, has no adversaries and has no sign of growing. I'd say there was room for this one for sure.

And with all due respect back Sir Bill - at least they're available?

And while I'm thinking about the issue of "making a profit", perhaps if they were supported a bit more by world-wide collectors, then we'd maybe see more adversaries and growth - Non?

Cheers - And not too much offence intended, (well maybe just a teensy-weensy wee bit). My original post was in fact intended to generate just this kind of discussion.

H

 

[jazzeum]

I think I have to agree with Harry here. Why do something that's been repeatedly done, if you're going to do a new line. I think that's why his WW II line has drawn interest. No one has done Eastern front like he has in years. To be successful in life, no matter your trade or business, you have to do something different, not be a copy cat. The people we remember are the innovators, not the me toos.

 

[Rob]

No Rob,
I'm not trying to insult you, or anyone else, and I've stated that several times now because I knew that I would either deliberately or inadvertently be misconstrued no matter how I wrote my original post. Nor am I going to repeat an apology that I had hoped would prevent exactly the sort of discussion that I in turn wanted to avoid having to reply to. However, be that as it may, your lengthy and I believe somewhat....not angry - but getting darn close to it, post shall receive the response it deserves.

My entire point that you seem to have missed, or maybe that ought to be mist, and with due respect to Mister FL, whose post I still have to digest in detail, having simply speed-read it in order to respond to your message Rob - Umm, where was I? Oh yeah - my entire point was;

Leaving aside just for a moment, (cos I'm going to return to it), the whole issue of "making a profit", I question why FL should sink time and resources into repeating ranges that are covered perfectly adequately by other manufacturers. I'm not having a "dig" at, for example, WWII or FIW collectors - if you've noticed, I myself have a few examples of various manufacturers products from these eras, plus I'm a "green tank guy" myself - and you personally know the reason why I've gone to the time and expense of shacking up in a hotel in Beijing for almost an entire week at the moment. If I wasn't a "green tank guy" then why would I do it? And by the way "GTG" is just a generic term for people such as you and I anyway and if it causes some kind of offence (?), then I've just insulted myself....


As Matt himself has hinted at, the fact that FL decided to do a WWII range could well be due to the economics inherent to the miniature figurine business - it's certainly none of my business why they decided to branch out into this era. But that takes me back to the point I was making which is that I for one would rather see them doing something different such as several of the alternative options suggested in the poll. Yes, that's just my opinion, but its also my opinion that although WWII isn't included (thank goodness), several of the other categories in the poll are already well served by other manufacturers.

I'm honestly not picking on you or other WWII collectors Rob, but you've just acquired a tank you've wanted for years, and you almost immediately ask your favourite manufacturer if he's planning on producing the exact same bl**dy tank..!!
A new WWII manufacturer hits the ground running with some excellent FJ figures and again, almost immediately, you ask your favourite manufacturer if he has plans to release more FJ's this year..??
Are you, and others who repeatedly ask for the same stuff over and over again, going to buy FL's excellent Stug? Or are you going to wait for your favourite manufacturer to produce yet another version of those that have already been produced over and over again in polystone, cos it'll be just a wee bit cheaper than what FL will have on the market? If not just quite as good.

When is enough - ever enough?
And when are those of us who are interested in, or want to develop an interest in different eras ever going to get the chance to acquire them, if companies such as FL keep getting inundated with requests for stuff that is already available, and in the case of WWII repeated over and over again?
I fully understand that you and possibly a majority of other collectors on this forum seem to be primarily focused on D-Day, Bulge, Desert War and Arnhem. That's all fine and dandy, so am I on at least two of those particular eras, but what about the other conflicts during WWII? Why not petition your favourite manufacturer to "give us" China-Burma-India, or ask the UK based dealership to emulate a USA based dealership and commission some sets for the early Pacific War such as the Japanese invasion of the Philippines which for me at least, is just as relevant to those other WWII conflicts I've previously mentioned, and I would venture to suggest even more vicious, for those who like that kind of thing.
That would at least leave the way clear for those of us who would like to see FL or anyone else for that matter "give us" the opportunity to collect some of the excellent alternatives offered in this poll.

Getting back to the issue of "making a profit", which I'll just briefly touch on here; yes - of course anyone in any manufacturing business needs to make a profit - especially in the TS line. Otherwise how else would we see the quite magnificent progress and evolution in quality and choice that we are presently being offered by the mainstream players? That almost goes without saying, and Rob, those quite superb Australian Light Horsemen figures and their adversaries that your favourite manufacturer has in the pipeline means that I will 99% for sure go for the entire range.
Funny that - innit..??

Best Regards and No Offence Intended.

Harry

Harry,a very interesting post as usual and i should point out i'm not angry,more....'persuaded to join the conversation'.

Why should FL join the Fray?.Well from what i've read Matt has a real passion for his subject and believes he can make the best TS's out there,now although Stalingrad is not served as well as say D Day or North Africa it has been done before.So why should he stop there?.Surely a wide choice of producers to choose from is really good for collectors,it gives us depth of subject,diorama choices etc.So someone makes a Firefly,are we then supposed to keep quiet and not ask for another from a different producer?.If even if i can only afford a fraction of whats released,i really appreciate the choice in different styles etc.

If i may say H i sense a note of anger re FL's Stug,the reason i've not ordered it is i've not seen it in the flesh yet,is that unreasonable?.So you say FL's Stug is excellent,you won't criticize anyone who buys it even though there are other Stugs out there from other producers,did you advise Matt not to make it as there are others?.

The reason i don't petition anyone for China-Burma-India is i have little or no interest in it to be honest.You say it as if its an outrage that people don't collect this theatre of war,just because its valid as any other theatre does not mean we have to collect it,its the freedom of choice.The Pacific I do have an interest in,but as a collector with limited funds i have to lean towards the areas of War that interest me most,again i ask is there anything wrong with that?.We are all free to petition who we want,but why Harry would i want to petition my UK supplier to emulate a US company.Surely that would be doing what you say shouldn't be done,duplicating a range already covered?.

Now i am not a toy soldier producer and so know nothing about sales figures and trends,but as a pretty experienced collector and having talked to hundreds of collectors over many years in London i have an idea of what people like and what they don't.I don't buy the 'Eastern Front' is not popular line so much,i think FL's figures will sell very well and books and films prove this theatre is very popular indeed.

Again i'm not a producer,but however annoying to non WW2 collectors facts is facts Harry.And the truth is D Day will always sell,do you think China-Burma-India will sell enough to make it viable?.

Finally i say this,if Matts Stug is as good as it looks,why on earth miss out the chance to make other popular vehicles from that War,if nothing else he will make good money from it!.

Rob

 

[Harrytheheid]

Harry,a very interesting post as usual and i should point out i'm not angry,more....'persuaded to join the conversation'.

Why should FL join the Fray?.Well from what i've read Matt has a real passion for his subject and believes he can make the best TS's out there,now although Stalingrad is not served as well as say D Day or North Africa it has been done before.So why should he stop there?.Surely a wide choice of producers to choose from is really good for collectors,it gives us depth of subject,diorama choices etc.So someone makes a Firefly,are we then supposed to keep quiet and not ask for another from a different producer?.If even if i can only afford a fraction of whats released,i really appreciate the choice in different styles etc.

If i may say H i sense a note of anger re FL's Stug,the reason i've not ordered it is i've not seen it in the flesh yet,is that unreasonable?.So you say FL's Stug is excellent,you won't criticize anyone who buys it even though there are other Stugs out there from other producers,did you advise Matt not to make it as there are others?.

The reason i don't petition anyone for China-Burma-India is i have little or no interest in it to be honest.You say it as if its an outrage that people don't collect this theatre of war,just because its valid as any other theatre does not mean we have to collect it,its the freedom of choice.The Pacific I do have an interest in,but as a collector with limited funds i have to lean towards the areas of War that interest me most,again i ask is there anything wrong with that?.We are all free to petition who we want,but why Harry would i want to petition my UK supplier to emulate a US company.Surely that would be doing what you say shouldn't be done,duplicating a range already covered?.

Now i am not a toy soldier producer and so know nothing about sales figures and trends,but as a pretty experienced collector and having talked to hundreds of collectors over many years in London i have an idea of what people like and what they don't.I don't buy the 'Eastern Front' is not popular line so much,i think FL's figures will sell very well and books and films prove this theatre is very popular indeed.

Again i'm not a producer,but however annoying to non WW2 collectors facts is facts Harry.And the truth is D Day will always sell,do you think China-Burma-India will sell enough to make it viable?.

Finally i say this,if Matts Stug is as good as it looks,why on earth miss out the chance to make other popular vehicles from that War,if nothing else he will make good money from it!.

Rob

Well Rob,
No offense but I'm not going to get into the kind of discussion that I wanted to avoid due to the probabilty of less honourable individuals than yourself getting involved.
Yeah - you're absolutely correct in everything you've said on this thread and I'm completely 100% wrong in desperately wanting FL to "give us" more varied and colourful ranges that no-one else "gives us".
I look forward to the First Commissar announcing yet another D-Day, Bulge, Desert War or whatever Panzer or Sherman and can hardly wait not to buy it - even though 99% of the rest of the membership of this forum will be simply panting to make him rich.
I would point out however that this poll didn't even include WWII in the first place..!!
Thank you and goodnight - yet another extremely promising thread completely destroyed by the blinkered Saving Private Ryan crowd who apparently can't contemplate collecting other, and just perhaps, more interesting lines that aren't available.

 

[Harrytheheid]

Actually, Harry, I think that your question makes a lot of sense and I don't think anyone would take it as a "dig." From a collectors perspective it does make sense that if a new range is in the cards, why not have it be something you can't get from anywhere else? Of course, the flip side to this is that a lot of collectors would like to see their favorite ranges done in our style. As a manufacturer I think that a balance needs to be struck between ranges that will almost guarantee success due to their overall popularity and ranges that are a bit more of a risk because they might be untested or about lesser known or studied periods of history. I have to commend K&C on this as they make not only the big/popular periods but also have branched out and made some less well known or unexpected stuff as well. Of course, they are a long established company and as such have the luxury to take such risks, some of which I'm sure have paid off handsomely and others probably less so, and have had the time to produce all of those ranges. Time is a big factor as these figures don't make themselves overnight and any range requires a lot of research, planning, and investment long before it ever hits the market. As such, ranges must really be carefully chosen and how well a range might be received and how popular it will be is certainly a major consideration. There are other considerations that are important, but generally speaking sales is king.

In terms of voting on polls such as these, if you look at any of the polls about anything the voting typically breaks down along the same lines with most folks voting for what their interests are. It's pretty natural that this would be the case. Of course, your point is well taken that there are several people favoring FIW for example, but will they be disappointed if we do it and then the figures aren't the same size or style as Jenkins who dominates that period? My guess is that there would be some of that and that there would also be some folks who just love the period and don't care one way or another and would buy the figures for what they are, not for what they are compatible with. We don't design to be compatible with other companies nor do we design to not be compatible. We just do what we do and leave the compatibility issues to you all to sort out.

In the end, our thinking is to try to strike a balance between sticking to the tried and true and branching out into less well covered but still interesting periods. In both cases, the goal would be to create ranges that would be extremely popular and thus generate the highest sales possible. The tried and true ranges have more predictable sales while the less well covered ranges are more of a big risk/big reward model where it has the potential to be a disaster or the potential to be a massive success. With a company as new as we are, a disaster would not be a good thing! That being said, I think we'll surprise a lot of people as well. Suffice it to say, in terms of the direcion First Legion will take, I think that there will be a bit of predictability in some instances and a bit of risk taking in others. In both cases, however, I feel that the products will speak for themselves and will be worth collecting regardless of whether everyone else is doing it with a predictable range or whether it's a range of a lesser produced or less well known period. For better or worse, we tend to believe that the quality of the product and the completeness or depth of the range is possibly more important than the (perceived) popularity of the period. Well supported ranges of beautiful figures tend to sell regardless of their period and can have the effect of creating their own market.

Anyway, all of this is a long way off, but it is interesting to see what periods excite people.

I'd like to thank you for your considered and detailed response First Commissar and I completely agree with your point about having to strike a balance between the popular ranges - on this particular forum of course, with its ingrained bias - and those ranges that might, or might not, represent more of a risk.
I'm not actually saying that you ought not to do the more popular ranges that are freely available from other manufacturers - if, in a different style. What I'll repeat yet again because it seems to need repeating is, I'd be disappointed if resources were to be used up on producing FL versions of ranges, eras, lines, call them what you will, of items that are already on the market, or can be picked up at a price on evil-bay....at the expense of developing new and unique figures from eras that haven't been considered by the majority of collectors on this forum.
In addition, I'd like to respectfully point out that the present popularity of FIW, for example, was created almost from nothing due to the excellence of those figures offered by a manufacturer who decided to concentrate on this particular line of figures. Let's forget about another HK based manufacturer of FIW figures that don't even come near to the quality of those I'm referring to and didn't spark the same sort of interest from collectors who wanted this era.
See what happens when you're severely discouraged from mentioning other manufacturers on certain sections of this forum? I'm almost being forced to write in code in order to make my point.
As for your comments regarding another well established toy makers choice of ranges - I would seriously suggest that he is indeed to be commended on some of those choices, if not others. The "cowboy" range that was issued some time ago now, contains some absolutely excellent figures and although the time-scale took some collectors by surprise, I for one was extremely happy that it DIDN'T feature toy soldiers representing those from the 1870's but rather concentrated on the less well covered 1850's. I've noticed an increasingly positive reaction to this range and it's another one I'm considering getting into simply due to the unique choice of era and of course the quality of the figures.
And that gets me back to another of the points you have made. Yes, of course well made and beautiful figure from almost any era of history will sell - eventually that is, once collectors with inbuilt bias become enlightened to the fact that they are actually - beautiful figures.

Thanks
Harry

 

[Spitfrnd]

I think I have to agree with Harry here. Why do something that's been repeatedly done, if you're going to do a new line. I think that's why his WW II line has drawn interest. No one has done Eastern front like he has in years. To be successful in life, no matter your trade or business, you have to do something different, not be a copy cat. The people we remember are the innovators, not the me toos.

Actually no one has done WWII like FL is doing it, regardless of the front. There is more than one way to be innovative, as FL's 3 lines to date amply illustrate. If we remember FL it will not be because they do some period no one else has done but rather because they have done something much better, no matter whether it was done before.

 

[DCN1898]

Corps of Discovery would be interesting with all of the Indian Nations with whom the expedition had contact. It would be a colorful line.
Another period that hasn't been covered as far as I know, is the war with the Apache 1870-1880's. It would have Buffalo Soldiers and Mexican Army since there was a special hatred between the Mexicans and the Apaches.
The wars against the Dakota have been done and King and Country has started a line with Comanches. The Seminole wars could be done.

 

[Spitfrnd]

And with all due respect back Sir Bill - at least they're available?

And while I'm thinking about the issue of "making a profit", perhaps if they were supported a bit more by world-wide collectors, then we'd maybe see more adversaries and growth - Non?

Cheers - And not too much offence intended, (well maybe just a teensy-weensy wee bit). My original post was in fact intended to generate just this kind of discussion.
H

Look mate, I hope they are supported and do thrive and wish them all the best. That does not mean there is not room for another producer or that they currently completely meet the need. There is no offense to be taken from anyone's preference for whatever they happen to like or want.

 

[jazzeum]

Actually no one has done WWII like FL is doing it, regardless of the front. There is more than one way to be innovative, as FL's 3 lines to date amply illustrate. If we remember FL it will not be because they do some period no one else has done but rather because they have done something much better, no matter whether it was done before.

Bill,

That is also true; if you're going to do something that someone else has done, make sure you do it a heck of a lot better than someone else (build a better mousetrap). The Stug may be an example of that.

 

[Harrytheheid]

Look mate, I hope they are supported and do thrive and wish them all the best. That does not mean there is not room for another producer or that they currently completely meet the need. There is no offense to be taken from anyone's preference for whatever they happen to like or want.

Of course not Bill.
To be honest, I don't have any objection to what stuff anyone else wants to collect. Its none of my business in any case. What I tend to object to is the WWII crowd muscling in on an option that wasn't even provided in the original poll for what we would like to see FL offering us in future when it wasn't even included in the poll. The WWII groupies have enough opportunity to express their opinions on this forum without coming onto a poll that shouldn't concern them.

H

 

[VIRIATO]

On the new line being a theme already done by others...
People can be innovative with WWII or FIW or any period already done. Look at Honour Bound, for instance. New original poses and scenic pieces can always come up, fortunately. Napoleonics is hardly a new theme but First Legion, to me (IMHO) look like the best matte Naps on the market . Not only the figures are superb but also the Nap theme is being done in depth: Borodino, Waterloo, poses that complement each other on a diorama,quite innovative, right? I am falling for these figures (but would like to complete my Imperial Naps wish list first). Funny I enjoy both gloss and matte for this period, at the end of the day it all comes down to sheer quality...
I have voted FIW because, with all due respect for his being an astonishingly gifted artist, John Jenkin's FIW doesn't appeal to me, I don't enjoy the style of his figures, faces mainly. I won't buy them if they are the only matte FIW on the market, altough the theme (and the series) is very interesting.
Also like Matt said, the sheer quality of some figures and the depth of some series can draw collectors to a historical period they never thought of collecting. Have you seen Honour Bound's Shores of Tripoli?

Just some personal thoughts,
Paulo

 

[Fusilier]

There is more than one way to be innovative, as FL's 3 lines to date amply illustrate. If we remember FL it will not be because they do some period no one else has done but rather because they have done something much better....

Very true. I think it goes back to the same arguments that have been made before about First Legion. Thier very high quality/reasonable price ratio is innovative in my mind. You just can't find a more detailed, dynamic figure for the price that they offer.

Noah

 

[kilted vampire]

Voted for Crusades. Thought they could do a wonderful job with them. Doesn't seem to popular though.