Tom very simple....COMMON SENSE.....Martin was no angel that's for sure but neither is Zimmerman.....Zimmerman insitgated this altercation and should have left this to the police "as he was told" to do BY THE POLICE....At that point his life was NOT in danger....BUT..... He tried to play Charles Bronson/Police Officer and it resulted in tragedy. He is at least culpable on civil grounds....He was a frustrated wanabe police officer...rejected by the police force from what I understand. That's why.
Not Guilty (2 Viewers)
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Napoleon1er
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There was a legit ament mob outside the town hall where I live. When say mob, I mean there were signs calling for Zimmerman to literally be "lynched". I am not making that up.
I will not take a side, though I happen to think it was a mutual confrontation between two people consciously and/or subconsciously looking for trouble, and one guy had a gun.
I do, however, firmly believe we should abide by this country's justice system. There is no reasonable doubt that there was reasonable doubt, so I think people should take a pill of at least 20mg of chill. {sm4}
I will not take a side, though I happen to think it was a mutual confrontation between two people consciously and/or subconsciously looking for trouble, and one guy had a gun.
I do, however, firmly believe we should abide by this country's justice system. There is no reasonable doubt that there was reasonable doubt, so I think people should take a pill of at least 20mg of chill. {sm4}
Phantom Warrior
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Zim did not instigate the confrontation. Treyvon did when he went all the way back to Zim and attacked him.
Terry
Terry, That's not my understanding.... but my point is that if Zimmerman followed police orders all this would have likely never occurred...... As I said this kid was no angel by any means as the media is trying to portray.... but Zimmerman (not in uniform) was "maybe feeling braver then usual" with a gun in his back pocket and chose to confront this individual..... At that point his life was in danger. He likely would not have confronted this person if he did not have a gun in his possession....Zimmerman was told by the police not to act....We all know the rest.
Phantom Warrior
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No we don't all know the rest. There are gaps. Zim was not persuing down the row of backyards. And if Treyvon came all the way back to confront Zim, that's very different. If Treyvon confronted Zim as the evidence seems, then having a gun made no difference. It wasn't like he had the gun out.
Terry
jazzeum
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I don't believe the evidence supported the charges but that doesn't detract from the fact that a young man is dead and that this has exacerbated a deep racial divide in our country. Moreover, a lot of people don't understand why he was found not guilty or don't care. They just know that a teenager is dead.
Napoleon1er
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Brad had hit the nail right on the head.
tdubel
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Brad, don't disagree with your comments but the fact that people don't care about the law and why Zimmerman was justified is truly sad.
That said, I decided on my own to literally wade through the actual testimony instead of listening to the ignoramus media and form my own opinion.
WOW, is all I can say, it is almost disgraceful once you read the testimony as a whole how this ever went to court. Well, we know why it did b/c of misplaced outrage fueled by the public outcry and press. Zimmerman may have made a bad decision in leaving his car, BUT that is where it stops IMO according to the testimony. Unfortunately, the teenager was not an angel in his actions or intentions and Zimmmerman IMO was in a fight for his life. Justice prevailed on the whole at the end of the day. It is unfortunate that this teen went so awry in his life and that is a tragedy, but George Zimmerman is not to blame for that.
Again, this is my take and my take only.
TD
Mitch
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Not really sure that people seem to get that the Law and ''Justice'' are different things. That being said the Jury system has prevailed and twelve people have given their verdict and that should be it.
Calls for further action be it civil or whatever seems contrary to the screams for ''justice'' that are echoing from certain sections. dragging a man through whatever court will hear a case until you get the verdict that suits is appalling.
seems the ''justice'' shoes fit when it suits some of societies groups. perhaps, OJ may end up back in court so ''Justice'' will get a real airing?
You could not (as has been mentioned somewhere before) make this s..tuff up!!!
Mitch
Calls for further action be it civil or whatever seems contrary to the screams for ''justice'' that are echoing from certain sections. dragging a man through whatever court will hear a case until you get the verdict that suits is appalling.
seems the ''justice'' shoes fit when it suits some of societies groups. perhaps, OJ may end up back in court so ''Justice'' will get a real airing?
You could not (as has been mentioned somewhere before) make this s..tuff up!!!
Mitch
Phantom Warrior
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I took the same route as you did from the beginning over a year ago. I watched the testimony and also concluded the same as you.
Terry
jazzeum
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Tom,
Truly sad is an understatement.
Moreover, I see that the prosecutor in the case and his boss, Angela Corry, the Florida Attorney General, has made several statements, branding him a murderer, etc. To me, regardless of how one feels about the verdict and whether justice was done, these statements are just the height of irresponsibility since this is a highly charged issue.
Brad
Truly sad is an understatement.
Moreover, I see that the prosecutor in the case and his boss, Angela Corry, the Florida Attorney General, has made several statements, branding him a murderer, etc. To me, regardless of how one feels about the verdict and whether justice was done, these statements are just the height of irresponsibility since this is a highly charged issue.
Brad
gk5717
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Some more of my thoughts on this case. As stated by a few others, this should not have gone to a trial in the first place. I believe they had to get a special prosecutor, who did not convene a grand jury, but filed charges himself, as the local juristication did not want to file charges. And how did this get such national attention?
I know in Missouri, and let,s assume Florida has the same law, an adult is a person 17 years or older, a juvenile 16 and younger. Why do certain media refer to Martin as a "child" or "baby"?
I have seen a crime scene photo of Martin lying on the grass deceased. If that is not an adult I don,t know who is. I,ve heard it stated Zim was racial profiling Martin. I could be wrong but I always thought that term was used in reference to law enforcement stopping individuals just because of their ethnicity, not a civilian. As for as a civil rights violation, I again wonder how one civilian can violate the civil rights of another civilian. I thought that would refer to some government agency, LE agency and the like.
I think the tradgedy in this case is what Zim had to endure for 17 months. Trayvon just bit off more than he could chew.
Gary
I know in Missouri, and let,s assume Florida has the same law, an adult is a person 17 years or older, a juvenile 16 and younger. Why do certain media refer to Martin as a "child" or "baby"?
I have seen a crime scene photo of Martin lying on the grass deceased. If that is not an adult I don,t know who is. I,ve heard it stated Zim was racial profiling Martin. I could be wrong but I always thought that term was used in reference to law enforcement stopping individuals just because of their ethnicity, not a civilian. As for as a civil rights violation, I again wonder how one civilian can violate the civil rights of another civilian. I thought that would refer to some government agency, LE agency and the like.
I think the tradgedy in this case is what Zim had to endure for 17 months. Trayvon just bit off more than he could chew.
Gary
jazzeum
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I beleive that the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and other federal statutes provide for redress of civil rights violations of one person by another.
However, under the various federal criminal civil rights statutes the government has to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the defendant acted willfully with a seriously culpable state of mind to violate the civil rights of another person. I think this will be a difficult hurdle to overcome.
Mr. Zimmerman could also be exposed to a civil law suit from Mr. Martin's family. Here the threshold is lower and he could be subject to monetary damages. This is what happened to OJ: not guilty in the criminal proceedings but the jury found against him in the civil litigation and he was ordered to pay in the tens of millions of dollars.
However, under the various federal criminal civil rights statutes the government has to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the defendant acted willfully with a seriously culpable state of mind to violate the civil rights of another person. I think this will be a difficult hurdle to overcome.
Mr. Zimmerman could also be exposed to a civil law suit from Mr. Martin's family. Here the threshold is lower and he could be subject to monetary damages. This is what happened to OJ: not guilty in the criminal proceedings but the jury found against him in the civil litigation and he was ordered to pay in the tens of millions of dollars.
Phantom Warrior
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With a civil suit, standards are lower than for a criminal trial. Things that were not allowed to be introduced in the criminal trial will likely be admissible in a civil suit. One such item mentioned by Mark O'Meara after the trial was Treyvon Martin having been in possession of stolen goods and that this was covered up by the school system. http://theconservativetreehouse.com...ckpack-with-stolen-jewelry-and-burglary-tool/
So was Martin really innocent that night or was a member of the Neighbourhood Watch correct in his suspicions?
Terry
gk5717
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Brad in regards to a civil rights case in general terms if I commit any crime against a person I,m am violateing his civil rights, correct? Therefore it would be a case of double jeapordy, however I know it doesn,t work that way.
I,ll say it again. Everyday there will be less coverage on the news about this and it will just fade into the past.
Gary
I,ll say it again. Everyday there will be less coverage on the news about this and it will just fade into the past.
Gary
Warrior
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There are rabble rousers in this country who WANT there to be a racial divide in this country and for it to never change, they cry for justice for all, the rights of all and when they don't get the verdict they want, there is injustice and someones rights are violated.
This thing boiled over as soon as Zimmerman was referred to as a white Hispanic; is there even such a thing?
No, but the media and others beat that horse to death, it became a black vs white thing, then Sharpton and others got involved, then the president got involved ("If I had a son, I'd want him to look like him"; that's just brilliant), the rest is history.
It's funny; when OJ was found not guilty, there was cheering in the streets, I didn't see any cheering when Zimmerman was found not guilty; also, now he's a marked man, has to live the rest of his life with his head on a swivel. Did OJ have to do that, no he did not, some thought of him as a hero.
We really live in a messed up world, wow is all I can say.
Rob
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Napoleon1er
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As I have said, there was a large mob in my town. I went up to one of the organizers, and I asked him why they were so upset. He said that this was an example of how racist America is.
Now I went to a boarding school with 50% of kids coming from other countries, many of them from East Asia, Africa, South America, and the Middle East. I can definitely say that we live in a much less racist place than most of the world.
Every country has racism, but people who throw that term around have no idea what it really means.
When you apply to West Point, you have to write an essay on how you embrace diversity. I wrote mine on how the concept of diversity and its connotations is harmful to actual equality and harmony among different groups because it creates barriers and distinctions where none need to exist. I got in.
Now I went to a boarding school with 50% of kids coming from other countries, many of them from East Asia, Africa, South America, and the Middle East. I can definitely say that we live in a much less racist place than most of the world.
Every country has racism, but people who throw that term around have no idea what it really means.
When you apply to West Point, you have to write an essay on how you embrace diversity. I wrote mine on how the concept of diversity and its connotations is harmful to actual equality and harmony among different groups because it creates barriers and distinctions where none need to exist. I got in.