On The Road To Nuremberg (1 Viewer)

[Larry Allen]

Happy weekend fellows!:tongue:

I have been on this Forum for about 12 years. It is interesting that the same argument pops up over and over, with the same comments, the same responses, the same emotions and the same reactions … yet nothing changes. And why should it? There is absolutely no RIGHT or WRONG here, just good folks with different opinions.

It always appears the LAH or NAZI displays evoke the strongest emotions, but anyone could have an equally valid case against one line or another, I suppose.

* The Japanese committed more atrocities than the Nazis yet there is little criticism about collecting them. (Nanking for just one example, and the treatment of Australia and US prisoners of war as another.)

* The US Calvary committed horrendous acts against the native Americas, yet the K&C John Ford's Calvary is a popular line.

* The ancient Romans launched brutal campaigns all thru Europe and against the Jews yet many folks collect them with no complaints.

* As mentioned the Russians killed there own people and troops (not just in WWII) and yet little is mentioned.

* During the AWI, more soldiers and civilians died in BRITISH prisoner-of-war ships than did on all the battlefields of the war. I love my AWI British sets as do many others I believe.

* The Confederate States of America held slavery as "THEIR RIGHT"???, yet that line was a huge success (for K&C and others)

* The Crusader's tried to force their religion and on millions, which resulted in many wars and deaths, still they are a big seller.

I could go on and one but I am sure you see my point.

These are just 2 1/2 inch examples of history to be enjoyed, played with, discussed. As I said there is NO RIGHT or NO WRONG emotions here.

Andy and K&C has played a very well balanced role in presenting more eras in world history than ANY other manufacture. AND thanks to our US Military over the centuries we have the right to express any emotion and make (just about) any statement we wish … be it about Toy Soldiers or other issues. Although I do not have any LAH or SS sets it is simply a part of history to be explored by whoever wishes to retell that story … As Andy says .. "Authentic hand made history.

So, lets just all enjoy the wonders of this hobby and support others in their decisions to collect (OR NOT COLLECT) whatever they wish.

--- LaRRy

 

[ccdc11]

Thanks Larry ,
My thought exactly, It was this exact discussion, when I had first joined the forum that kept me off it for 7 years. I just read and "lurked" because someone got really rude over my view.
And I enjoy this hobby too much to let it be negative.

I don't collect 'Nazi parade" figures for the same reason that has been discussed, but if we look at history there are black marks on all our history's.
I would think if the 2nd world war ended differently, I would assume Curtis Lemay would have tried as war criminal by the Axis powers?
History is ripe with shocking incidents of mans inhumanity to man.


These are toys, collect what you want, don't count rivets, and have fun.
Chuck

 

[nysoldiers]

I appreciate the responses below and believe we have an obligation to respectfully discuss these issues.
Of course we all know that atrocities and violence have been practiced all through history. Few countries if any
are innocent of past and present crimes against humanity.
I have been told by some viewers of my collection that toy soldiers glorify war. My response is that I use my hobby
to illustrate history and teach children about why these wars were fought.
When we view battle dioramas, they may look antiseptic but in reality they show how conflicts are too often settled with violence.

What might be different now from past discussions on this topic is relevant. We live in a world where bigotry, racism, Xenophobia
and Anti-Semitism are on the rise. Here in America we watched the march of Neo-Nazis and White supremacists in Virginia. It
resulted in the murder of an innocent demonstrator.
According to the Anti-Defamation League Anti-Semitism and violence against immigrants is at an all time high.
We must be on guard and while parading Nazis may seem whimsical or "just history" I can tell you unequivocally that it is offensive
to many.
The Nazi regime and their horrors did not occur thousands or hundreds of years ago. It occurred 80 years ago in an industrialized, educated society.
There are still survivors of these horrors including Genocide victims and our brave Allies who gave their lives and limbs to defeat these monsters.

In my opinion there is a big difference between collecting "Germans and Japanese in combat" and Nazis on parade.
I can teach my grandchildren and their friends about the brave Allies defeating the evil regimes in battle.
But when children view a parade they can't distinguish between the evils and the "innocent" pageantry.

I wonder how collectors would react to makers promoting parading Ku Klux Klan, ISIS or Al Qaeda figures?

I don't condemn Andy or others for making these figures but I think they and collector forums need to be more sensitive and empathetic to those who are offended
or concerned. I dont condemn all collectors of these LAH figures but I do think that there are suspicious motives among some. As one forum contributor said, if I
visited a collector with a massive LAH display I would probably walk out and be very suspicious of their motives.

My father and uncles fought in WWII and if they saw these LAH dioramas I know they would be hurt and even horrified. We can teach the realities and violence of history
but need to draw a line in terms of what glorifies and misrepresents history's evil doings.
Andy has put disclaimers on some of his literature stating that he does not promote or condone Nazis and perhaps this should be done on all LAH figures and dioramas.

Finally, we as collectors of a sometimes controversial hobby should not shy away from making our feelings heard. There is a place for all sides of history but lets remember
that there are sensitive and impressionable people out there who deserve our empathy. We especially have an obligation to teach our children about the difference between
good and evil.

 

[villagehorse]

Happy weekend fellows!:tongue:

Well balanced Larry. I wish this was past history only that you cite, but unfortunately I fear it still goes on to this very day throughout the world and just as bad if not worse. We are a warring race it seems not learning from history only destined to repeat it. Robin.



I have been on this Forum for about 12 years. It is interesting that the same argument pops up over and over, with the same comments, the same responses, the same emotions and the same reactions … yet nothing changes. And why should it? There is absolutely no RIGHT or WRONG here, just good folks with different opinions.

It always appears the LAH or NAZI displays evoke the strongest emotions, but anyone could have an equally valid case against one line or another, I suppose.

* The Japanese committed more atrocities than the Nazis yet there is little criticism about collecting them. (Nanking for just one example, and the treatment of Australia and US prisoners of war as another.)

* The US Calvary committed horrendous acts against the native Americas, yet the K&C John Ford's Calvary is a popular line.

* The ancient Romans launched brutal campaigns all thru Europe and against the Jews yet many folks collect them with no complaints.

* As mentioned the Russians killed there own people and troops (not just in WWII) and yet little is mentioned.

* During the AWI, more soldiers and civilians died in BRITISH prisoner-of-war ships than did on all the battlefields of the war. I love my AWI British sets as do many others I believe.

* The Confederate States of America held slavery as "THEIR RIGHT"???, yet that line was a huge success (for K&C and others)

* The Crusader's tried to force their religion and on millions, which resulted in many wars and deaths, still they are a big seller.

I could go on and one but I am sure you see my point.

These are just 2 1/2 inch examples of history to be enjoyed, played with, discussed. As I said there is NO RIGHT or NO WRONG emotions here.

Andy and K&C has played a very well balanced role in presenting more eras in world history than ANY other manufacture. AND thanks to our US Military over the centuries we have the right to express any emotion and make (just about) any statement we wish … be it about Toy Soldiers or other issues. Although I do not have any LAH or SS sets it is simply a part of history to be explored by whoever wishes to retell that story … As Andy says .. "Authentic hand made history.

So, lets just all enjoy the wonders of this hobby and support others in their decisions to collect (OR NOT COLLECT) whatever they wish.

--- LaRRy

Cheers Larry, Robin.

 

[OzDigger]

Blah blah blah here we go again lol

Would you prefer another 'Scale' thread ^&grin

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Would you prefer another 'Scale' thread ^&grin

Oh....Please no {sm3}

Wayne

 

[Louis Badolato]

Would you prefer another 'Scale' thread ^&grin

Now that’s funny, I don’t care who you are!!

 

[nysoldiers]

I gave my opinion....that's what these forums are for. Now I will move on.

 

[wayne556517]

Would you prefer another 'Scale' thread ^&grin

Long as its compatible with my LAH collection lol

 

[OzDigger]

Long as its compatible with my LAH collection lol

Let's make a deal ^&grin

I'm selling most of my German sets to make room for Australian sets by K & C, TGM and JJD.

AUSSIE! AUSSIE! AUSSIE!

 

[wayne556517]

Let's make a deal ^&grin

I'm selling most of my German sets to make room for Australian sets by K & C, TGM and JJD.

AUSSIE! AUSSIE! AUSSIE!

If the price is right lol

I've just made room for both Mate

 

[Napoleon1er]

Finally, we as collectors of a sometimes controversial hobby should not shy away from making our feelings heard. There is a place for all sides of history but lets remember
that there are sensitive and impressionable people out there who deserve our empathy. We especially have an obligation to teach our children about the difference between
good and evil.

This post is excellently put and I completely agree. I do not care for parading Nazis, just as I do not care for parading PLA and would not care for parading Soviets, etc. That said, I would never attack anyone's right to make or collect them.

What actually offends me more than the figures/dioramas is those who are overeager to defend them and criticize those who voice any type of concern over the figures. I feel that even on this forum, there are many who might not fully understand what these figures mean to some members.

No one here is trying to ban anything or shut down discussion. Those of us who are bothered by these figures simply wish to remind people what they stand for and have our feelings heard.

I would like to respectfully ask that people attempt to be a bit more understanding and less hasty to trivialize our feelings.

Respectfully,
Sandor

 

[Alexander the Great]

This post is excellently put and I completely agree. I do not care for parading Nazis, just as I do not care for parading PLA and would not care for parading Soviets, etc. That said, I would never attack anyone's right to make or collect them.

What actually offends me more than the figures/dioramas is those who are overeager to defend them and criticize those who voice any type of concern over the figures. I feel that even on this forum, there are many who might not fully understand what these figures mean to some members.

No one here is trying to ban anything or shut down discussion. Those of us who are bothered by these figures simply wish to remind people what they stand for and have our feelings heard.

I would like to respectfully ask that people attempt to be a bit more understanding and less hasty to trivialize our feelings.

Respectfully,
Sandor

Very nicely said. There is a reason swastikas were banned from model kits and from websites like eBay.
I am sure that a person who lost family members to the nazis will view Andy’s diorama differently to someone who didn’t. It all a matter of past experiences and perspective. No right or wrong answer just individual perception.

 

[Poppo]

Very nicely said. There is a reason swastikas were banned from model kits and from websites like eBay.
I am sure that a person who lost family members to the nazis will view Andy’s diorama differently to someone who didn’t. It all a matter of past experiences and perspective. No right or wrong answer just individual perception.

What most of the people don't know is that the swastika is actually a positive symbol of the sun, solstice and life, which has been muddied by the nazi scum....It was used by the hindus, the ancient greeks, ancient romans, the buddhists, the native americans...it is a beautiful spiritual symbol which represents all that Is good and pure In mankind.

 

[Andanna]

... and then the Nazis used it and rewrote history. Parading SS troops are pure propaganda. The parades were designed for propaganda purposes and they still serve their purpose.

And then they obviously serve homoerotic fantasies.

Whatever floats your boat, I find these exhibits highly offensive.

 

[Rutledge]

... and then the Nazis used it and rewrote history. Parading SS troops are pure propaganda. The parades were designed for propaganda purposes and they still serve their purpose.

And then they obviously serve homoerotic fantasies.

Whatever floats your boat, I find these exhibits highly offensive.

Homoerotic fantasies, eh? Hmm. I’ve yet to get worked up over a miniature figure, even the busty lasses with exposed tops. But, as you say, whatever floats your boat! Lol

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Poppo,

Good that you included some History on the use of the Swastika symbol throughout time. The German's were clearly not the
first ones to use it but, certainly at this point will be the last.

Wayne

 

[King & Country]

... and then the Nazis used it and rewrote history. Parading SS troops are pure propaganda. The parades were designed for propaganda purposes and they still serve their purpose.

And then they obviously serve homoerotic fantasies.

Whatever floats your boat, I find these exhibits highly offensive.

Hi Guys,
'Homoerotic Fantasies' eh..?

That's a new one on me...But I suppose you could be right...Ernst Rohm, the original Chief ofhe SA was certainly a 'shirt lifter' of the first degree.

As far as 'highly offensive' goes I can think of a lot more things that are much more 'highly offensive' in this politically correct world we live in today than certain toy soldiers

But as 'Andanna' rightly says 'Whatever floats your boat'...

Best wishes and happy collecting,
Andy.

 

[jrsteel]

Hi Guys,
'Homoerotic Fantasies' eh..?

That's a new one on me...But I suppose you could be right...Ernst Rohm, the original Chief ofhe SA was certainly a 'shirt lifter' of the first degree.

As far as 'highly offensive' goes I can think of a lot more things that are much more 'highly offensive' in this politically correct world we live in today than certain toy soldiers

But as 'Andanna' rightly says 'Whatever floats your boat'...

Best wishes and happy collecting,

Andy.

I don't think I would categorize hating anything to do with Nazis as "politically correct".

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Hi Guys,
'Homoerotic Fantasies' eh..?

That's a new one on me...But I suppose you could be right...Ernst Rohm, the original Chief ofhe SA was certainly a 'shirt lifter' of the first degree.

As far as 'highly offensive' goes I can think of a lot more things that are much more 'highly offensive' in this politically correct world we live in today than certain toy soldiers

But as 'Andanna' rightly says 'Whatever floats your boat'...

Best wishes and happy collecting,
Andy.

Hi Andy, Yes he surely was. "Shirt Lifter" of the First Degree.......{sm4}

Wayne