Opinions on Chicago Show 2013 (2 Viewers)

[eborris]

I was there since Thursday, I thought the room trading was very slow and light. I expected heavy crowds based on past years on Friday and Saturday, but they came and went with light traffic. I thought the Sunday attendance was about normal, I went out to check the crowd about 9:45 and they were lined up to the door and then bent around the corner. They were a little light in the pocket though, I even had one guy pay me in quarters. This was my worst sales year ever, vintage seems to be on the outs and new on the way in, unfortunately I was mostly vintage.

This was my 22nd consecutive Chicago Show. Had a great time as usual meeting and talking with fellow TF members and other collectors I met thru out the years.
Let me qualify this by saying I did not attend the actual Sunday Show, have not done that for the last 10 years, but it seems to me the room trading days were way down.
After 6PM Thursday and Friday just about nothing going on. During the day, Thur., Fri, & Sat. a little better but nothing like in the past.
I know we are all getting older, one veteren attendee even joked that there were way more "walkers", "wheelchairs" in the hall ways than in other years.
It just seemed to me there was no "wow" factor this year.
I know one major dealer as of late saturday was crying the blues in regards to sales and questioning if it was worth all that was involved to attend this show.
I don,t want this to be a downer, but could this show be on the slide so to speak as being the worlds best toy soldier show or is it the hobby itself loosing something.
I still plan to attend next year and many years after that, but I would like the true opinion of other people who have attended.
Having said all of the above, OTSN is still my favorite days of the year.
Gary

 

[DearthCo]

I have heard this lament for the past ten years and yes it's true but so what? I still have a great time and will continue to attend for years to come. That being said I am a small dealer with low overhead. I live close [enough] and I love meeting with the peeps. The room I currently occupy is a little out of the way and Don came up to me (of his own volition) and said he would put me in a better room. That's great! Don does a great job and runs a great show and I would still be going back no matter how much the hobby contracts.

And remember the "good old days" really? sometimes it was so crowded it was hard to breath!!

 

[valmy33]

Exactly. Myself and just about every other boy in my street got into toy soldiers, Action Man, Commando Comics, Airfix soldiers and kits etc through the endless repeating of War films on tv in the seventies. We played ' War' in the woods and streets and the Second World War was still fresh in the nation's memory. But kids live in a TOTALLY different world now. I have two nephews and four god daughters and they all have social lives and networks that we could not have even imagined back then. They are barely at home but in a constant tour of friends houses and sleepovers etc. They have computers , mobiles, facebook, Wii , and God knows what else. Its not just about money anymore but they just are not as hooked on the subject as we were. If I said to my nephews here is a hundred quid go and buy three metal toy soldiers , they'd think me insane. When they see my collection they smile and say ' cool ' but there is barely a flicker of interest. They ask me questions for their history homework but that's as far as it goes.

I heard a couple talking to their young son a couple of shows back and he wanted a Kubelwagen. The couple were on the verge of buying it until they heard the price, they then stood there and could not agree to pay out that amount for a model that in all probability would be ruined in five mins. This is indeed a hobby for middle aged kids with a bit extra in their pockets.

Makes me feel very old when I think back to my childhood in the early seventies.......but it sure was good!:smile2::wink2:

Rob

Hi Rob, Hi all,

I think the History is not only teaching dates. The problem is the same in each country. Maybe the solution is to teach through an education project, not necessarily as ambitious as this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzT3L3gGrew

A diorama made ​​by a class of children or teen can help them better understand the issues of battle and its impact on the history of a country ... and can be generated interest in the figures and shows like this in Chicago and other places all over the world.

Faithfully
Valmy

 

[Spanish soldier]

I would argue that we need more publicity to young people, sell at toy stores, more attractive prices

Francisco

 

[valmy33]

I would argue that we need more publicity to young people, sell at toy stores, more attractive prices

Francisco

Hi Francisco, hi all,

You are right when you suggest making more advertising(publicity) towards the children and a decrease or a price stabilization. However, the problem is more complex. Indeed, to collect figurines is not a vital need and with the crisis to buy figurines is not essential. There are other priorities for some people.

Furthermore, the children do not play any more with figurines for a long time. They prefer computer games. Besides, the distribution method is classic, traditional, dealt in small stores based in city centers for those which can again resist.
Large Stores, supermarkets are often for the periphery(out of town) and they sell too often standard products.

Do you think that a toys supermarket wants to sell soldiers for collectors ?
Today, sales are too confidentials for that.

I think that a soluce, not the soluce and maybe I'm wrong, passes by collectors'/figuriniste 's clubs and an active approach(initiative) in schools : demonstration, presentation(display) of dioramas, exhibitions(exposures), etc.

Faithfully
Valmy

 

[Mitch]

Sadly publicity won't bring in any children you could advertise in every periodical available and in every school and you still won't get ''kids'' involved. Why? because the prices of these items are too high for them and, more importantly when speaking of kids, their parents pockets. Why would kids want items that they display only and cannot play with? who actually now plays with the AFV's and the metal soldiers from this hobby? How dull for a child to have items for display purpose only!! Now child you have paid or mum and dad have paid £70 for the figure and £365 for the half track so, don't touch it!!! That is going to hook them every time!

Display pieces for adult collectors and that is the way it will always be. Again, it seems only collectors or some think we need kids entering the hobby. very little comments of substance come from the main manufacturers on the subject. Changing the prices will be the only way to attract a wider audience. We only have to read on here to see the number of people who have money to spend but are being priced out of the hobby. So, why not try to keep that lifeline alive than rather alienate a group who we know want to spend yet waste energy thinking of strange ways to attract a group who have even less ability to buy the items??

Many people tell us a price drop won't happen, can't happen but, it is interesting that Figarti have now brought out much cheaper AFV's (in terms of their usual prices) It can be done its just whether the manufacturers want to.

As I mentioned before I am a collector and I just don't care about attracting kids into a hobby that has never been for them at least this little segment. This notion of a benefit with a wider collector base is also strange as a wider base means only a benefit for the manufacturers not the collector and always will be. If that alludes to some kind of expansion on ranges etc then its a misnomer to me as we conversely hear from the same people that we are spoilt for choice. Cannot really have it both ways IMO.

A lot of the price increase although it affects all manufacturers is aimed at K&C as they are the main company that constantly raise their prices month after month and have been for some time. The cheap seats sets we are hearing little about!! IMO will be less about attracting ''kids'' and more about getting the existing collector base to buy multiples to use as fillers because they realise prices are getting to breaking point for many and, that collectors are not buying the multiples of figures they once were.
Mitch

 

[valmy33]

Sadly publicity won't bring in any children you could advertise in every periodical available and in every school and you still won't get ''kids'' involved. Why? because the prices of these items are too high for them and, more importantly when speaking of kids, their parents pockets. Why would kids want items that they display only and cannot play with? who actually now plays with the AFV's and the metal soldiers from this hobby? How dull for a child to have items for display purpose only!! Now child you have paid or mum and dad have paid £70 for the figure and £365 for the half track so, don't touch it!!! That is going to hook them every time!

Display pieces for adult collectors and that is the way it will always be. Again, it seems only collectors or some think we need kids entering the hobby. very little comments of substance come from the main manufacturers on the subject. Changing the prices will be the only way to attract a wider audience. We only have to read on here to see the number of people who have money to spend but are being priced out of the hobby. So, why not try to keep that lifeline alive than rather alienate a group who we know want to spend yet waste energy thinking of strange ways to attract a group who have even less ability to buy the items??

Many people tell us a price drop won't happen, can't happen but, it is interesting that Figarti have now brought out much cheaper AFV's (in terms of their usual prices) It can be done its just whether the manufacturers want to.

As I mentioned before I am a collector and I just don't care about attracting kids into a hobby that has never been for them at least this little segment. This notion of a benefit with a wider collector base is also strange as a wider base means only a benefit for the manufacturers not the collector and always will be. If that alludes to some kind of expansion on ranges etc then its a misnomer to me as we conversely hear from the same people that we are spoilt for choice. Cannot really have it both ways IMO.

A lot of the price increase although it affects all manufacturers is aimed at K&C as they are the main company that constantly raise their prices month after month and have been for some time. The cheap seats sets we are hearing little about!! IMO will be less about attracting ''kids'' and more about getting the existing collector base to buy multiples to use as fillers because they realise prices are getting to breaking point for many and, that collectors are not buying the multiples of figures they once were.
Mitch

Hi Mitch,

Your analysis is good but there are not only tin soldiers to begin.

Faithfully
Valmy

 

[Spanish soldier]

Encourage the sale of plastic toy soldiers in stores for children, in my childhood I have comansi figures, reamsa, jecsan, airfix, britains, pech hermanos:salute::

Francisco

 

[HAWKEYE]

Encourage the sale of plastic toy soldiers in stores for children, in my childhood I have comansi figures, reamsa, jecsan, airfix, britains, pech hermanos:salute::

Francisco

there were some really nice plastic figures for sale at the show. most notably were paragon with there apaches and us cav and toy soldiers of san diego with their civil war figures. with 3d molds and copying these were seemless and were really painted up well. and cheap. at first glimpse you would think they were metal. so francisco, you have a great idea with the plastics and the kids. and maybe with alot of adults

 

[HAWKEYE]

Thanks mate, I bet we did! :salute:: In those days (hard to imagine now) but there were only three tv channels! So every Christmas it was The Great Escape , Zulu, Heroes of Telemark, Battle of The Bulge etc.

I too have some Action men and gear left up in the loft, happy days in the seventies mate, looooong proper hot summers and we played outside all day long without our parents having to worry about so many weirdos that now appear to stalk the land.

Oh god don't I sound old Dave!^&grin

All the best mate

When are you coming back to London???

Rob

o f course i go back to changing a tv channel by hand. but memorable movies for me were the Errol flynn movies. the charge of the light brigadeand they died with there boots on. also john wayne's the horse soldiers, zulu, the longest day and beau geste are a few of my inspiring favorites

 

[marco55]

o f course i go back to changing a tv channel by hand. but memorable movies for me were the Errol flynn movies. the charge of the light brigadeand they died with there boots on. also john wayne's the horse soldiers, zulu, the longest day and beau geste are a few of my inspiring favorites

Mine too.
Mark

 

[marco55]

I was raised by my grandparents who didn't have a lot of money but I always had a full belly,decent clothes and toys,especially soldiers.I remember getting Fort Apache,Civil War and other playsets and many other toy soldiers.My grandmom would send for them in ads in comics.I remember getting AWI soldiers 204 pcs. for $1.98.What I'm trying to say is that even plastics are getting expensive.Look at the Conte and Barzo playsets,beautiful sets but at $300-$400 very few buy them and from what I've read actually more costly to produce than metal sets.And as far as kids today they just don't seem interested in history as our generation.If you look at figure painter shows you see more and more fantasy and sci-fi figures and dioramas.I think for the manufacturers to stay in business the will eventually have to move in that direction.
Mark

 

[HistoryfortheAges]

Yes, fantasy figures seem to have a very large following. I agree that these figures will likely continue to be very popular with the younger generation. That and computer gaming. Prices are less prohibitive in these hobbies.

I don't think the toy soldier hobby will completely disappear but it is likely to become even more exclusive amongst collectors with the right level of discretionary income. Also, I think there will be less manufacturers and retailers reaping the rewards in this hobby in coming years. It seems like that is what has been happening in the last few years already.

 

[Rob]

Yes, fantasy figures seem to have a very large following. I agree that these figures will likely continue to be very popular with the younger generation. That and computer gaming. Prices are less prohibitive in these hobbies.

I don't think the toy soldier hobby will completely disappear but it is likely to become even more exclusive amongst collectors with the right level of discretionary income. Also, I think there will be less manufacturers and retailers reaping the rewards in this hobby in coming years. It seems like that is what has been happening in the last few years already.

Never got the whole fantasy figure thing myself as I prefer historical, but each to their own and some of the paint jobs on these figures are truly superb.

Rob

 

[Cyber Field Marshall]

Exactly. Myself and just about every other boy in my street got into toy soldiers, Action Man, Commando Comics, Airfix soldiers and kits etc through the endless repeating of War films on tv in the seventies. We played ' War' in the woods and streets and the Second World War was still fresh in the nation's memory. But kids live in a TOTALLY different world now. I have two nephews and four god daughters and they all have social lives and networks that we could not have even imagined back then. They are barely at home but in a constant tour of friends houses and sleepovers etc. They have computers , mobiles, facebook, Wii , and God knows what else. Its not just about money anymore but they just are not as hooked on the subject as we were. If I said to my nephews here is a hundred quid go and buy three metal toy soldiers , they'd think me insane. When they see my collection they smile and say ' cool ' but there is barely a flicker of interest. They ask me questions for their history homework but that's as far as it goes.

I heard a couple talking to their young son a couple of shows back and he wanted a Kubelwagen. The couple were on the verge of buying it until they heard the price, they then stood there and could not agree to pay out that amount for a model that in all probability would be ruined in five mins. This is indeed a hobby for middle aged kids with a bit extra in their pockets.

Makes me feel very old when I think back to my childhood in the early seventies.......but it sure was good!:smile2::wink2:

Rob

You definitely have something here. Our generation all had similar childhoods. The way we played and the toys we played with ( and I would also add actually playing SPORTS outside) is so different from what today's youth pursue as hobbies/pastimes. I tend to agree with you who our hobby is directed towards. Makes one wonder how much longer it will stay strong.

As far as my feeling toward's the Chicago show. I think the interest in these things ebb and flow from year to year because of the products/content being marketed at the time. If "whats in" isn't something that appeals to me as a collector my interest wanes in the show and vice versa. This year it was nice to see some shock and awe from Figarti however that theatre is of little interest to me. As for the other displays they were nice but K&C leaked them so there weren't any surprises/intrigue as to what was coming. Looking forward to next year and hopefully a greater focus on my areas of interest. :smile2:

 

[theBaron]

As far as encouraging kids to get in the hobby goes, I think most of you are missing the mark, when you focus on the figures that you collect, and then think about the things that make it difficult for kids to get involved. For example, I wouldn't want to give a young boy a First Legion figure, or even King & Country. I'd give him a bag of green army men and turn him loose in the yard. I'd give him snap-together model kits, not Trumpeter. I'd show him the WWII books I read as a kid, take him to air shows and re-enactments. These things are more liable to spark his interest. And then, if he becomes interested, the high quality figures that we big kids collect will be Christmas and birthday presents, further reinforcing his interest. So, I'm not that concerned that a figure might cost $60, $70, or a hundred bucks. Those aren't the figures I'm going to buy for a young kid.

I do agree that we who stage shows, and who run collectors' clubs, need to recognize that we need to encourage the next generation, actively. Some are better than others at this, but there is always room for improvement.

Prost!
Brad

 

[marco55]

I was raised by my grandparents who didn't have a lot of money but I always had a full belly,decent clothes and toys,especially soldiers.I remember getting Fort Apache,Civil War and other playsets and many other toy soldiers.My grandmom would send for them in ads in comics.I remember getting AWI soldiers 204 pcs. for $1.98.What I'm trying to say is that even plastics are getting expensive.Look at the Conte and Barzo playsets,beautiful sets but at $300-$400 very few buy them and from what I've read actually more costly to produce than metal sets.And as far as kids today they just don't seem interested in history as our generation.If you look at figure painter shows you see more and more fantasy and sci-fi figures and dioramas.I think for the manufacturers to stay in business the will eventually have to move in that direction.
Mark

 

[steve weston]

I am curious as well Dave to know why the London shows aren't more then 1 day?? they seem to be a good amount of foot traffic (from the photos I have seen) and alot of tables to put up for such a short amount of time?? as far as the advertising for Chicago I get 2-3 different toy soldier mags and they do a fair amount of ink for the show, so not sure why the slow down as Brad, and others have mentioned...Sammy

There are several reasons why any of the U.K. shows are not more than 1 day. First, room trading would probably NOT be accepted by the hotels owners, who would not want their rooms trashed or abused in the way that they are in Chicago. Second, parking anywhere in London is ****ed expensive if available at all. Third, we had terrorism here from the '60's right thru until recently (no, it's not gone, just diminished) and security has always been an issue - imagine several hundred unknown people wandering around hotel floors and an incident occurs...
Forth, whilst the central London Show is well attended, there simply would never be enough customers to maintain a 2 day event even when the economy was at it's peak! Now we are in a deep recession there are even fewer people willing to part with their hard earned cash, so the costs of travelling into London, and maybe even staying at any of the vastly over-priced hotels would not be attractive when compared to buying on-line at a fraction of the expense.

My experience of actual 2-day shows are that this only spreads the buying and attendence, it does definitely NOT attract more customers.

Chicago, like all shows worldwide, is feeling the hit caused by the recession, but it's up to you guys to get up of you rear-ends and maintain the support for any Toy Soldier show. The onus should not be solely on the organisors - we hear nothing but very weak reasons why people could not attend: It was the dog's brithday, the wife needed a shave, we were selling the children. Please, give it a rest! Examine your own reasons for not attending, or if you did attend, did you spend as much and as freely as on previous years? I doubt it.

As always with Chicago, the tables were sold out and there was a waiting list. Yes, the room trading does get less each year, but surely this is partly because many have sold off their collections and many of the collectors have either died off are no longer able to physically attend (we are talking of an age group from probably 55years upwards for the main part - just how many youngsters and teenagers do you see at you local shows?).

Tougher baggage restrictions and a genuine lack of spending money due to the poor value of the Pound against the Dollar curtailed what I could buy - but at least I was there, from Wednesday when the heavens opened until the Monday morning. Just what is the point of going home before the Show, anyway? New dealers arrive on the Sunday and it is actually easier to see the goods at the show, rather than in the rooms where the lighting is low.
Support the Shows - wether local, national or International, support the Organisors (after all, they front all the money) and support the dealers
who maintain this hobby for you.

 

[Warrior]

To me, one of my favorite aspects of the Chicago show is I get to see customers and dealers who I only get to see once a year.

Two of my favorite dealers are Steve Weston and Nick from TSSD; Nick and I started our businesses right around the same time, he's done well as have I. Nick is always happy, always laughing, always smiling, as is Steve. Steve is a great guy, he, Nick and myself are in the same corner of the Sunday show, we keep each other going with comedy, comedy and more comedy.

A lot of what he has said here is spot on. Attendance is dropping at the shows, not sure why, but it is. And the costs for dealers to attend keeps going up, up and up. So the numbers are down and the costs are up, not a good combination.

Not to mention the promoters who run the shows are getting older, there are no new shows and several are either gone or on life support. I predict that the way things are going, five to ten years from now, there will be just a handful of shows left.

For those collectors who keep thinking/wishing/hoping/praying/promising/planning to go but then bailing at the last minute for one excuse or another, when the shows are gone, you'll have no one to blame but yourselves.

 

[kogu]

Two excellent posts here by Steve Weston and George.
Here's a review from me as a a collector/customer.

The primary reason for me to visit the show, was to meet with collector friends I have made throughout the years.
The secondary reason was that I could examine the figures I bought. Yes, I did some purchases, but the main part was pre-ordered, and it was nice to know that the figures I bought were perfect, taking out the possible hassle of return shipments/replacements and such.

With the exception of a single figure I found, any purchase I made could have been done via the internet.

What hit me most at this year's visit, was the age of the majority of participants.
On Saturday morning, in a hallway, I overheard one visitor saying to his buddy: "Did you ever watch the show "The Walking Dead"?" {eek3}
I am not talking about making efforts to get kids into the hobby :wink2: I am talking about attracting people to the hobby that are in the 30's, about to hit the 40's, have some extra income and love that stuff. That would help a lot.

Then, I left Sunday morning, prior to the show.
No, it was not "my dog's birthday" ^&grin, it was my birthday and I had to get back to party.

Will I go again next year?
Yes, I will, and I will be looking forward to it. But when I'll be on my way there I will be not as enthusiastic as I used to be years ago.
While it is still awesome and a real pleasure to see that massive amount of Toy Soldiers, getting some of them for your own collection, it has the feel of a declining hobby.

However, as long as that show is going on, I'll be going too, and I hope it will last for many more years to come, and not only this one but any other Toy Soldier show around the globe as well.

Happy Collecting!

Konrad