Points-to- Ponder (1 Viewer)

[King & Country]

Hi Treefroggers,

I’m just taking a bit of a break from a big desert diorama that I’m building for one of our collectors in Holland… So, thought I’d reply on a few points…

1. Retiring a Scenic…
I’m sorry “Polar Bear” is upset that K&C is retiring certain pieces but here are the actual facts and …reasons.
a) “Cleopatra’s Needle” was released in 2008… surely that’s enough time for anyone who really wants it to buy it.
b) “The Watch Tower” was released in 2009… see above.
c) “The Wall”… OK, this one was 2010… but that’s still over a year of availability. Now, although our decision makes “no sense” to him it makes a lot of sense to us… As Andy has said on many, many occasion… “Space is very limited and very expensive in Hong Kong.” It’s just not possible to keep every line in stock in the warehouse for as long as every collector wants to buy it… when they want to buy it! No can do…
At the same time in order to bring a steady stream of new product onto the market you must retire other items… as it happens we have several new “Desert Village/ Egyptian/ Display items” in the works but we must make room for them!

2. “Business Not What It Used To Be”
Well, none of us know that the future holds… but as far as we know K&C’s Business is in a very healthy position and continues to grow.
Some collectors, for whatever reason, only see their particular part of their country… there’s a big wide world out there that is still developing… growing… and collecting toy soldiers of all shapes, sizes and styles.

3. “Russians”
I like Russians… Andy likes Russians… You all like Russians… Even Russians like Russians!
So, now that we accept that undisputed fact… how come Britains… Collectors Showcase…Figarti… Tommy Gunn… Conte…. And, of course, First Legion (which is part Russian) are not assaulting you all with hordes of Russian infantry, fighting vehicles, aircraft and a dozen other things… Ever wonder why?

4. “The Forum”
At my last count the Forum has close to 2,000 members… at any one time there are a hundred or so users online with about a quarter of that actual members and the rest guest/ observers.
Regular posters probably number no more than 50 and we all know who we are (almost on a personal basis).
I know I love reading it (as does Andy) but any company must be very careful of just relying on a very small sampling of the worldwide collecting fraternity for deciding what it should make… how it should make it… and … when it should retire any items. Believe it or not, my friends, K&C is not run in a “casual manner” or even on Andy’s whim’s and fantasies. We think… plan… and take action based on actual sales… market research… and the physical feasibility of making and selling any particular item or items. Very, very little is left to chance…
Alas some among us believe that toy soldiers and military miniatures can be produced instantly and turned on or off like a light switch. Similarly, if an event like “The Death of Bin Laden” happens then… hey presto… Seal Team Six and the now deceased Osama will appear, as if by magic on their shelves.
And yes, yes, yes… they will definitely buy it… but only, as they like to add, “If the price is right!”
Ah well, enough of our ramblings… I better got back to my cell and chain my ankle to the workbench before my jailer comes around.

Best wishes to one and all and… happy collecting.

Gordon C. & Andy C.
“The Neilsons”

 

[wayne556517]

Good points,and im pondering now where,s my STUKA (joking)..............{sm4}

 

[Rob]

Thanks to Gordon and Andy for posting and giving us your views, always good to get the view from HQ.

I can understand the reasons behind scenic items perhaps not being around as long as some may wish. When you see these stacked up just at a show (not even in a dealer warehouse etc) the space they take up is huge, these things come in large boxes and really take some storage.

The ' Russian question' is indeed much debated among us on here. Might not be wise to embark on a range in these financially difficult times if you were in any doubt of how well they would sell, also good point re the other producers, I think only Figarti have made 1/30 scale Russian Tank riders.

And re the forum, much as we all love to talk, discuss, suggest and vote on occasion, we are really a very small percentage of collectors out there. In fact if memory serves, my good friend Tony Neville told me that the vast majority of his customers don't even have internet access!

Cheers

Rob

 

[wayne556517]

Thanks to Gordon and Andy for posting and giving us your views, always good to get the view from HQ.

I can fully understand the reasons behind scenic items perhaps not being around as long as some may wish. When you see these stacked up just at a show (not even in a dealer warehouse etc) the space they take up is huge, these things come in large boxes and really take some storage.

Also thanks for stating K&C's position on the ' Russian question' , I think it would not be wise to embark on a range in these financially difficult times if you were in any doubt of how well they would sell, also good point re the other producers, hardly a flood of Russian troops as you say.

And re the forum, much as we all love to talk, discuss, suggest and vote on occasion, we are really a very small percentage of collectors out there. In fact if memory serves, my good friend Tony Neville told me that the vast majority of his customers don't even have internet access!

Cheers

Rob

Should see my shed "Boxes" every where so can't even imagine what the K+C warehouse looks like,but wouldn't mind a gander.................{sm4}

 

[mario]

Thank you for your post Gordon and Andy.You do it very well!!!!!!!!!!!
Mario:smile2:

 

[breslau]

Thank you K&C - it's great news about new buildings for the Desert Village. And a small plea - please don't forget some new building(s) for Berlin '38.

 

[lancer]

Whatever else anyone says or thinks about KC, including myself, you have to applaud their responsiveness to this forum. KC keeps the collectors on here informed and answers queries on a regular basis. I find this remarkable and want to thank KC, as their responses, whether good news or bad, let us know what is going on. -- Al

 

[Wolf]

Thanks for the update Gordon. Your points make sense, and I too am looking forward to new Desert buildings and as 'breslau' mentioned new Berlin '38 buildings sounds like a winner. I don't think they would linger in a warehouse too long.

Hi Treefroggers,

I’m just taking a bit of a break from a big desert diorama that I’m building for one of our collectors in Holland… So, thought I’d reply on a few points…

1. Retiring a Scenic…
I’m sorry “Polar Bear” is upset that K&C is retiring certain pieces but here are the actual facts and …reasons.
a) “Cleopatra’s Needle” was released in 2008… surely that’s enough time for anyone who really wants it to buy it.
b) “The Watch Tower” was released in 2009… see above.
c) “The Wall”… OK, this one was 2010… but that’s still over a year of availability. Now, although our decision makes “no sense” to him it makes a lot of sense to us… As Andy has said on many, many occasion… “Space is very limited and very expensive in Hong Kong.” It’s just not possible to keep every line in stock in the warehouse for as long as every collector wants to buy it… when they want to buy it! No can do…
At the same time in order to bring a steady stream of new product onto the market you must retire other items… as it happens we have several new “Desert Village/ Egyptian/ Display items” in the works but we must make room for them!

2. “Business Not What It Used To Be”
Well, none of us know that the future holds… but as far as we know K&C’s Business is in a very healthy position and continues to grow.
Some collectors, for whatever reason, only see their particular part of their country… there’s a big wide world out there that is still developing… growing… and collecting toy soldiers of all shapes, sizes and styles.

3. “Russians”
I like Russians… Andy likes Russians… You all like Russians… Even Russians like Russians!
So, now that we accept that undisputed fact… how come Britains… Collectors Showcase…Figarti… Tommy Gunn… Conte…. And, of course, First Legion (which is part Russian) are not assaulting you all with hordes of Russian infantry, fighting vehicles, aircraft and a dozen other things… Ever wonder why?

4. “The Forum”
At my last count the Forum has close to 2,000 members… at any one time there are a hundred or so users online with about a quarter of that actual members and the rest guest/ observers.
Regular posters probably number no more than 50 and we all know who we are (almost on a personal basis).
I know I love reading it (as does Andy) but any company must be very careful of just relying on a very small sampling of the worldwide collecting fraternity for deciding what it should make… how it should make it… and … when it should retire any items. Believe it or not, my friends, K&C is not run in a “casual manner” or even on Andy’s whim’s and fantasies. We think… plan… and take action based on actual sales… market research… and the physical feasibility of making and selling any particular item or items. Very, very little is left to chance…
Alas some among us believe that toy soldiers and military miniatures can be produced instantly and turned on or off like a light switch. Similarly, if an event like “The Death of Bin Laden” happens then… hey presto… Seal Team Six and the now deceased Osama will appear, as if by magic on their shelves.
And yes, yes, yes… they will definitely buy it… but only, as they like to add, “If the price is right!”
Ah well, enough of our ramblings… I better got back to my cell and chain my ankle to the workbench before my jailer comes around.

Best wishes to one and all and… happy collecting.

Gordon C. & Andy C.
“The Neilsons”

 

[Mitch]

can K&CHK answer especially for those who are asking for these sets a few questions? if we are to believe all the other companies do not do russians because they won't sell why we are seeing so many eastern front german sets?? berlin defenders,, Das Reich, Wiking Totenkopf (in particular) in sets which, can only be used correctly on that front.

I don't think anyone on here really expects a whole range of russians but, surely, one or two sets an AFV or troops produced in low numbers would sell and, be appreciated by those who wish for historically correct dioramas and a balancing of sets.
Mitch

 

[Rob]

I guess that pretty much all the German units from whatever front sell well, such is the interest in their uniforms, weapons and AFV's, perhaps these sets are aimed at the ' All things German' collectors like Wayne, correct me if I'm wrong here Wayne!^&grin. Also perhaps the Berlin figures were just made to go with the Jagdtiger, they certainly look good together.

Rob

 

[Obee]

Whatever else anyone says or thinks about KC, including myself, you have to applaud their responsiveness to this forum. KC keeps the collectors on here informed and answers queries on a regular basis. I find this remarkable and want to thank KC, as their responses, whether good news or bad, let us know what is going on. -- Al

Al,

you have 'hit the nail on th head' with your comments..... its great to be able to interact with the makers, and I love hearing the details about the products 'straight form the horse's mouth' so Gordon & Andy, please keep on posting your comments, we all apprecaite your feedback,

John

 

[PolarBear]

My comments about the retired Egyptian and desert items were entirely motivated by the release in April 2011 of the new Napoleon in Egypt series. The retired items are all ones that can be used with this new series. I did not mention that the desert buildings are also perfect scenics for the new SOE range on the North West Frontier. What I was questioning was the irony and wisdom of retiring items that now might be picked up by those of us collecting either or both of these new series. In other words there are K&C collectors like myself who would gladly have added these scenic items now since they were relevant to what we have now bought into with these new series. Since we have been told by Andy that K&C items will now be "rare" due to low production numbers and early retirements I was afraid not to pick up all the Naps in Egypt releases all at once. Doing that precludes buying items that are suddenly retired right after purchasing the new releases. For me it is now like a game of Russian Roulette. Should I have bought Cleopatra's Needle rather than the new Temple Ruins first or will the Temple Ruins be gone too before the year is out? Now we have no idea how often a dealer will be able to restock these new low production runs.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

can K&CHK answer especially for those who are asking for these sets a few questions? if we are to believe all the other companies do not do russians because they won't sell why we are seeing so many eastern front german sets?? berlin defenders,, Das Reich, Wiking Totenkopf (in particular) in sets which, can only be used correctly on that front.

I don't think anyone on here really expects a whole range of russians but, surely, one or two sets an AFV or troops produced in low numbers would sell and, be appreciated by those who wish for historically correct dioramas and a balancing of sets.
Mitch

There are very few Russian AFVs that could be considered significant enough to make models for only about 8 - and 3 of them have recently been made. K&C has a T-34/85 (admittedly sold out but there doesn't seem to be a clamour for it. Figarti has the JS-2 and JSU-152 done on a small run of 100 each. The JS-2 sold out and people are looking for it, but the JSU-152 is still available I think. The only other modern WWII Russian tanks are the iconic T-34/76 and the KV-1 and KV-2. There are only 2 or 3 other small SPGs made in any numbers. Many of the Russian trucks were made in the USA. They didn't have personel carriers. They had one mobile ZSU AAA. So with the need for a T-34/76, that comes to 6 vehicles that could be done - not too many.

Terry

 

[Rutledge]

Hi Treefroggers,
.....Believe it or not, my friends, K&C is not run in a “casual manner” or even on Andy’s whim’s and fantasies. We think… plan… and take action based on actual sales… market research… and the physical feasibility of making and selling any particular item or items. Very, very little is left to chance…
Gordon C. & Andy C.
“The Neilsons”

Really, you run K&C 'like' a business? Shocking I say! Who ever heard of such a thing? :wink2:

Great post.

 

[cantinetozzo]

Good post by the Neilson brothers...I' d really like to know more about teh upcoming Ancient Greek World range by the way!!!

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I think a couple of "fair" responses to points can be made here. Companies such as Conte, Collectors Showcase, T. Gunn, etc have not been pumping out hordes of Russians....true statement but K&C "HAS" pumped out plenty of German eastern front items most recently: WS151 "Kursk Tiger" The new "Volksturm" figures to name a few. These are truly awesome vehicles and figures and are all very highly appreciated.I think what the collectors of "Today" are asking for is just a small taste of some new Russians to "go along with all of the new current releases". I personally recommended maybe a few items done on a limited production basis meaning 3 or 4 figures and a fresh T-34 done on "LOW (SL) run". The Fall of Berlin series was simply excellent.That being said the German figures did sell out before the Russians did.However right now I do not know of one single K&C dealer who has any of the Soviet sets left.True they did sit around much longer than did the German items but this is where the lower production run would help prevent this from happening again in several ways.
1) The "current audience" of collectors asking for them would add them to their existing collections. 2) Limited numbers would prevent these products
from sitting around. 3) If done as a "Strictly Limited" series or set that would also draw in the collectors who focus on low production items in particular.What we the collectors would have to comply with is following through with the purchase , and yes the price may go up a bit to meet these requirements. As far as using this forum
to gauge collectors interest,it is a usefull tool but not a means to an end. I have been collecting the wonderful world of King&Country for 3 years now with over $30,000.00 invested and love it all.Only until 3 months ago did I take an interest in participating in this forum. Since then I have had a good amount of fun and obtained some great ideas from it. The point that I am emphasizing here is that only a small percentage of true collectors take the time to give their views in forums or at Toy Soldier Shows. They buy what appeals to them as an individual. The WWII European theater range is truly very popular, if not the most popular range of vehicles and figures produced.That being said if 1,000 Tiger tanks can be made and sold out in a timely manner I would hope 300 newly tooled Soviets could stand up to the needs of the collecting community. By the way my middle name is "NOT" Jeremiah the know it all.I am just a happy K&C collector who believes that K&C is the Brand in which other companies emulate and drives them into their own ventures.Lastly I would like to add the timely response given by Gordon of K&C is a great thing. At least they are showing that their eyes and ears are open for input !!!!

 

[Rob]

Very interesting and heartfelt post. While I can fully understand the frustration of not getting the range you really want, I can see the other side. I guess K&C have huge experience in what sells and what doesn't, look at the Pacific range, I would have thought our American friends would have purchased them in droves but apparently it didn't happen. You quite rightly mention the superb Kursk Tiger, but it is such a good release that it can stand alone in a scene, and the same goes for the Jagdtiger and Berlin defenders. Glad to hear you really enjoy your hobby too, enthusiasm is a by product of collecting I find! :smile2:

Rob

 

[jazzeum]

From a business point of view it probably doesn't make much sense as K & C would have to design and sculpt figures (which they may already have done) but they plan for production many months or a year ahead of time and as they've grown larger, they have a business plan upon which they seek to execute and has to fit in with what they want to do. You're basically asking them to deviate from the plan and find production space and time that they had not planned upon. Could be chaotic, not to mention any return they make has to justify the investment, which they feel it does not. In addition, K & C, as probably many others do, make product on a range by range basis and this would not fit into that plan.

Moreover, there's an old expression called "let's move the merchandise!" and K & C are looking to sell as quickly as possible and not have their dealers stuck with slow moving merchandise like the Russians to which you alluded.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I don't believe I am asking for the company to deviate from their production plan or produce more than the current buying public will purchase. Would I myself if I had a factory make 1,000 German sets and at the same time produce 1,000 Russian sets. Heck NO. Probably a 3 German to 1 Soviet set ratio.
Myself and the others are only asking to consider these products down the line for future consideration. Imagine collecting Civil war items but only the Confederates are the main focus.How about American Revolutionary War figures and only the British Redcoats are available...... Ok. lets do Napolionics but only produce the French. How about Battle of Britain but...... no RAF.
Check out the current treefrog poll on this subject : 77 total votes 53 say yes in favor of production.This is just a small percentage of the collecting community but the odds in this example are more than 2 to 1 in favor. Again for future consideration . Only a friendly exchange of ideas. By the way it seems many of the Pacific sets,Fall of Berlin German and Russians have been selling on the secondary market for considerably more than their initial retail price. CHEEEEEERS ^&grin

 

[Rob]

No offence was meant in anyway re my Pacific comments, was just chatting .

Rob