Points-to- Ponder (2 Viewers)

[Rutledge]

Not all criticism is "equal". For instance, if Im talking with a relative about another realative, I would likely accept and acknowledge their right to criticize, to a degree. However, if a non-relative were to offer the exact same critique, it would be viewed less well, and great offense may even be taken, as it is not "their place".

Same applies with sports teams or other loyalties. I doubt a Pittsburgh Steelers fan's critique of the Browns or Ravens would be received the same as it would be from a fan of one of those teams.

Thus, I think if certain K&C advocates were to register complaints about this or that, it would be seriously and well received by the K&C crowd. However, if a vocal supporter of another line does the same, the reception would be much different, regardless of whether there is a hidden agenda.

I am getting ready to buy a new car. Whatever model I select, if another owner of same comes to me afterwards and offers criticisms, it will matter to me. However if the owner of a different brand approaches me with all the reasons his car is superior, I would most likely not give him the time a day.

Its just takes a little appreciation for normal human dynamics, folks.

 

[uksubs]

For arguments and spitefulness this has to be one of the worst forums.

I have to agree 100% ,I go on other diecast forum and people respect other members opinion.

 

[marksable]

Hey everyone - thanks to all those who had nice things to say about my post.

Chris - yes, my post might have been many things, but concise wasn't one of them

Rob - I hope that you don't withdraw from the forum, and that my posts didn't encourage you do so. Andy's "usual suspects" line didn't sit well with me at the end of the last dispatches, but it didn't dampen my enthusiasm for the next round. Other than rent they are the only sure thing I have to look forward to at the start of each month And dispatches wouldn't be the same without your anticipatory threads.

I've only been here a year or two, but I too have noticed that things have become more contentious. It seems to me that dates back to K&C having to deliver some unpopular news. Some of it could have been delivered better, and much of it could have been received better.

My intent was not to stir the pot more. In the past I've found certain posts overly critical towards K&C. Lately I felt that some of those who were legitimately critiquing K&C were getting treated unfairly. I hoped - perhaps naively - drawing attention to that might restore some balance.

The internet brings with it both good and bad. I will say if it wasn't for this forum it's unlikely I would be collecting toy soldiers in general, and K&C in particular.

There are no toy soldier stores in my area, so my first items were bought sight unseen. The photos caught my eye - first the official photos, then the many dioramas that board members created.

On the same day I posted on this thread, I also posted complimenting K&C dios Rob and Beary Bones photographed that had me salivating for new figures. Yes, Andy, Gordon and and K&C deserve the lion's share of the credit for creating the pieces, but I found the creativity of the juxtapositions inspiring.

As Mitch pointed out, many of us relied (and still rely on) upon the word and expertise of others before making purchases. What I remember most about my first interactions on this forum were how helpful and welcoming everyone was.

I'm amazed at the good fortune I've had buying and selling figures here. Everyone I've dealt with has been honorable, I've been able to avoid fees, and had the added satisfaction that I'm more likely to find someone here than on ebay who will genuinely enjoy something I'm parting with.

Most of all, knowing anyone who collects Toy Soldiers in real life, it was (and is) also nice to feel part of a community with a shared passion.

By the same token, it's also been good to hear others warnings, and to have a place to voice concerns or complaints.

Both have been equally valuable to me, and I hope this continues to be a place where all voices are welcome.

The comments here, the communication from the manufacturers and the very existence of the forum have resulted in me happily spending money at TF for K&C, WB and Figarti.

I doubt I'm unique in this experience, and I think it's therefore good business sense for manufacturers to continue interacting with us here. And I think it's good for the hobby for everyone to voice their honest opinions, as long as it remains civil and polite. Despite the growing contention, it still feels to me the majority of posts here are both.

Wishing everyone happy collecting,

Mark

 

[tenth of june]

I have just retraced this message thread and I have to say that it is completely dull and boring.

This is a toy soldier collectors hobby; some of you have taken this literally and written completely childish messages. Cannot believe the amount of time that some of you have wasted with irrelevant drivel. Hurt or offebded by the sentiment "the usual suspects" and its implied content? Get a life and grow up.

What we should be discussing is the toy soldeir recession that seems to be occuring presently. Apart from K&C and JJ, the rest of our production companies seem to be slowing down with their offerings - is this a sign of the ecomonmic depression or a sign that people just don't spend as much as they used to!

No matter what K&C does or doesn't do, I continue to buy their brand, but in moderation. I like what I like, and if it loogs good, I will buy it. If I want model perfection, I would probably buy a scale model kit, but then again I can't make them; my model making skills are poor, and the average costs of model makers are high. I am sure there are others like me who share this viewpoint. Please, if you don't share this viewpoint, then don't reply to it, just make a "fresh and innovative" comment as opposed to what's already been said repeatedly on this thread.

 

[Rob]

Hi Mark,

I have absolutely no intention of withdrawing from the forum mate , all I'm doing is trying to avoid getting involved in pointless arguments that I later regret ! And your post most certainly did not make me want to leave Mark, I always enjoy your posts and really appreciate the very kind comments you made about my dio's ,

All the best

Rob

Hey everyone - thanks to all those who had nice things to say about my post.

Chris - yes, my post might have been many things, but concise wasn't one of them

Rob - I hope that you don't withdraw from the forum, and that my posts didn't encourage you do so. Andy's "usual suspects" line didn't sit well with me at the end of the last dispatches, but it didn't dampen my enthusiasm for the next round. Other than rent they are the only sure thing I have to look forward to at the start of each month And dispatches wouldn't be the same without your anticipatory threads.

I've only been here a year or two, but I too have noticed that things have become more contentious. It seems to me that dates back to K&C having to deliver some unpopular news. Some of it could have been delivered better, and much of it could have been received better.

My intent was not to stir the pot more. In the past I've found certain posts overly critical towards K&C. Lately I felt that some of those who were legitimately critiquing K&C were getting treated unfairly. I hoped - perhaps naively - drawing attention to that might restore some balance.

The internet brings with it both good and bad. I will say if it wasn't for this forum it's unlikely I would be collecting toy soldiers in general, and K&C in particular.

There are no toy soldier stores in my area, so my first items were bought sight unseen. The photos caught my eye - first the official photos, then the many dioramas that board members created.

On the same day I posted on this thread, I also posted complimenting K&C dios Rob and Beary Bones photographed that had me salivating for new figures. Yes, Andy, Gordon and and K&C deserve the lion's share of the credit for creating the pieces, but I found the creativity of the juxtapositions inspiring.

As Mitch pointed out, many of us relied (and still rely on) upon the word and expertise of others before making purchases. What I remember most about my first interactions on this forum were how helpful and welcoming everyone was.

I'm amazed at the good fortune I've had buying and selling figures here. Everyone I've dealt with has been honorable, I've been able to avoid fees, and had the added satisfaction that I'm more likely to find someone here than on ebay who will genuinely enjoy something I'm parting with.

Most of all, knowing anyone who collects Toy Soldiers in real life, it was (and is) also nice to feel part of a community with a shared passion.

By the same token, it's also been good to hear others warnings, and to have a place to voice concerns or complaints.

Both have been equally valuable to me, and I hope this continues to be a place where all voices are welcome.

The comments here, the communication from the manufacturers and the very existence of the forum have resulted in me happily spending money at TF for K&C, WB and Figarti.

I doubt I'm unique in this experience, and I think it's therefore good business sense for manufacturers to continue interacting with us here. And I think it's good for the hobby for everyone to voice their honest opinions, as long as it remains civil and polite. Despite the growing contention, it still feels to me the majority of posts here are both.

Wishing everyone happy collecting,

Mark

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I have just retraced this message thread and I have to say that it is completely dull and boring.

This is a toy soldier collectors hobby; some of you have taken this literally and written completely childish messages. Cannot believe the amount of time that some of you have wasted with irrelevant drivel. Hurt or offebded by the sentiment "the usual suspects" and its implied content? Get a life and grow up.

What we should be discussing is the toy soldeir recession that seems to be occuring presently. Apart from K&C and JJ, the rest of our production companies seem to be slowing down with their offerings - is this a sign of the ecomonmic depression or a sign that people just don't spend as much as they used to!

No matter what K&C does or doesn't do, I continue to buy their brand, but in moderation. I like what I like, and if it loogs good, I will buy it. If I want model perfection, I would probably buy a scale model kit, but then again I can't make them; my model making skills are poor, and the average costs of model makers are high. I am sure there are others like me who share this viewpoint. Please, if you don't share this viewpoint, then don't reply to it, just make a "fresh and innovative" comment as opposed to what's already been said repeatedly on this thread.

Well, I am one who shares this viewpoint and also agree with UKsubs that other diecast forums I am on do not get into personal attacks but focus on the models and collecting.

Terry

 

[Mitch]

it was uksubs who told me about quite a few forums but, what I do see is a mature acceptance for evaluating the releases thats what seems to be the biggest difference. allowing critique without hurling abuse and dummies or, screaming manufacturer assasination. Thats whats dull and boring IMO
Mitch

Well, I am one who shares this viewpoint and also agree with UKsubs that other diecast forums I am on do not get into personal attacks but focus on the models and collecting.

Terry

 

[Phantom Warrior]

it was uksubs who told me about quite a few forums but, what I do see is a mature acceptance for evaluating the releases thats what seems to be the biggest difference. allowing critique without hurling abuse and dummies or, screaming manufacturer assasination. That's whats dull and boring IMO
Mitch

UKsubs is certainly on more forums than I am. He is on the same ones I am plus a few more. These forums have good debates on the models, comparisons between manufacturers and I don't find it boring at all. I do find the repeated rancorous arguments on Treefrog with easily taken offense and all the dramatics, stating, restating and clarifying positions to be tedious. I generally tune out when it gets that way.

Terry

 

[wayne556517]

Now theres arguing about which forums argue the most....................{sm2}

 

[sammy719]

Now theres arguing about which forums argue the most....................{sm2}

{sm3}{sm4}...a good laugh to start the day!!!...Sammy

 

[The Military Workshop]

Wayne has a way with words.

 

[Eazy]

Now theres arguing about which forums argue the most....................{sm2}

If you want real vitriol, nastiness and unconstructive criticism you need to visit a Doctor Who forum after a new episode has aired. Those guys make a few spats about Toy Soldiers seem like amateurs.

 

[Mitch]

there are some footy sites like that. This really is a walk in the park very mild indeed
Mitch

 

[wayne556517]

If you want real vitriol, nastiness and unconstructive criticism you need to visit a Doctor Who forum after a new episode has aired. Those guys make a few spats about Toy Soldiers seem like amateurs.

Doctor Who...............^&confuse

 

[Eazy]

Doctor Who...............^&confuse

Pretty sure you have Doctor Who in Oz Wayne. You should have seen the World war 2 Daleks from last year - though they probably weren't quite Germanic enough for your tastes! :smile2:

 

[wayne556517]

Pretty sure you have Doctor Who in Oz Wayne. You should have seen the World war 2 Daleks from last year - though they probably weren't quite Germanic enough for your tastes! :smile2:

Yeah we have him mate can't avoid a Doctor "Who" joke......:wink2:

 

[lancer]

Is this the same Who Horton heard or is it Who's on first? -- Al

 

[PanzerAce1944]

From a business point of view it probably doesn't make much sense as K & C would have to design and sculpt figures (which they may already have done) but they plan for production many months or a year ahead of time and as they've grown larger, they have a business plan upon which they seek to execute and has to fit in with what they want to do. You're basically asking them to deviate from the plan and find production space and time that they had not planned upon. Could be chaotic, not to mention any return they make has to justify the investment, which they feel it does not. In addition, K & C, as probably many others do, make product on a range by range basis and this would not fit into that plan.

Moreover, there's an old expression called "let's move the merchandise!" and K & C are looking to sell as quickly as possible and not have their dealers stuck with slow moving merchandise like the Russians to which you alluded.

ACCORDING TO RECENT EVENTS LOOKS LIKE THE RUSSIANS "ARE" COMING SOON TO A DEALER NEAR YOU !!! {sm3}

 

[Iron Brigade]

Hi Treefroggers,

I’m just taking a bit of a break from a big desert diorama that I’m building for one of our collectors in Holland… So, thought I’d reply on a few points…

1. Retiring a Scenic…
I’m sorry “Polar Bear” is upset that K&C is retiring certain pieces but here are the actual facts and …reasons.
a) “Cleopatra’s Needle” was released in 2008… surely that’s enough time for anyone who really wants it to buy it.
b) “The Watch Tower” was released in 2009… see above.
c) “The Wall”… OK, this one was 2010… but that’s still over a year of availability. Now, although our decision makes “no sense” to him it makes a lot of sense to us… As Andy has said on many, many occasion… “Space is very limited and very expensive in Hong Kong.” It’s just not possible to keep every line in stock in the warehouse for as long as every collector wants to buy it… when they want to buy it! No can do…
At the same time in order to bring a steady stream of new product onto the market you must retire other items… as it happens we have several new “Desert Village/ Egyptian/ Display items” in the works but we must make room for them!

2. “Business Not What It Used To Be”
Well, none of us know that the future holds… but as far as we know K&C’s Business is in a very healthy position and continues to grow.
Some collectors, for whatever reason, only see their particular part of their country… there’s a big wide world out there that is still developing… growing… and collecting toy soldiers of all shapes, sizes and styles.

3. “Russians”
I like Russians… Andy likes Russians… You all like Russians… Even Russians like Russians!
So, now that we accept that undisputed fact… how come Britains… Collectors Showcase…Figarti… Tommy Gunn… Conte…. And, of course, First Legion (which is part Russian) are not assaulting you all with hordes of Russian infantry, fighting vehicles, aircraft and a dozen other things… Ever wonder why?

4. “The Forum”
At my last count the Forum has close to 2,000 members… at any one time there are a hundred or so users online with about a quarter of that actual members and the rest guest/ observers.
Regular posters probably number no more than 50 and we all know who we are (almost on a personal basis).
I know I love reading it (as does Andy) but any company must be very careful of just relying on a very small sampling of the worldwide collecting fraternity for deciding what it should make… how it should make it… and … when it should retire any items. Believe it or not, my friends, K&C is not run in a “casual manner” or even on Andy’s whim’s and fantasies. We think… plan… and take action based on actual sales… market research… and the physical feasibility of making and selling any particular item or items. Very, very little is left to chance…
Alas some among us believe that toy soldiers and military miniatures can be produced instantly and turned on or off like a light switch. Similarly, if an event like “The Death of Bin Laden” happens then… hey presto… Seal Team Six and the now deceased Osama will appear, as if by magic on their shelves.
And yes, yes, yes… they will definitely buy it… but only, as they like to add, “If the price is right!”
Ah well, enough of our ramblings… I better got back to my cell and chain my ankle to the workbench before my jailer comes around.

Best wishes to one and all and… happy collecting.

Gordon C. & Andy C.
“The Neilsons”

Dear Andy & Gordon:

Thanks for your recent interesting comments on K&C productions past & future. By the way, I look forward to getting 4 of the 5 new K&C sets that will be coming out the end of June on the new "action" US Army First Infantry Division D-Day sets which will complete my D-Day Omaha Beach diorama I started in mid 2009. My local dealer has had my order on file for some weeks already.

"Iron Brigade"