Points-to- Ponder (2 Viewers)

[wadepat]

Gentle Friends,

As this thread has now reached 100 posts, it is clear many forum members are enjoying the discussion. Please do not spoil the discussion by introducing anger and interpersonal conflict into it. Otherwise, moderator intervention will be required. If you have strong feelings and differences with another person, please use PMs to discuss those differences.

Your cooperation is greatly appreciated.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[nmrocks]

My point is it not down to you or me to say what can or can' t be said on the forum it down to the owner of the forum

I agree absolutely!

 

[Mitch]

What should be accepted by all those who rush to the defence of the manufacturers when a question about accuracy or cost or detail is that its just another opinion and, that they, being in the hobby, have to realise that although some or all of these issues may not matter one jot to them but, it matters to others and many want to have these issues raised.

Everyone seems to forget the myriad of people who rely quite heavily on the opinions of people on here as they may not have a local shop near them or they may not have the ability to attend shows and see sets in person so, they need to have a critical evaluation of the subject matter. Nobody would buy a car without having a good old look at it and that applies to toy soldiers at quite a cost. This is applicable to all manufacturers some people want nice looking sets some want that and, historically accurate and, if the good and bad can be discussed it allows one to evaluate if you want that set or, move onto another.

It should not be ruined by the buy what you like brigade or those who seem to have taken arms to defend their chosen manufacturer where if you mention anything seemingly negative they try to scream outrage and blue murder. Instead of vilifying those who have the ability to see the wrong divisions or the wrong detailing perhaps they should just accept these manufacturers make rickets from time to time and have a quiet word with the manufacturers to research better what they intend to release.

Collectors and some have totally ignored or forgotten this can only discuss what comes out from the manufacturers there is no conspiracy that people are out to get them if a manufacturer expouses this or that and, releases something wrong or something broken or similar are we expected to just applaud their endeavour like automatons or, use our brains and experience and say excuse me that’s not right.

I once said you can tell when its constructive critique and when its a dig as you may not like the company we should all really take a deep breath and, evaluate what is said and,the reasons why it was said then respond then there would be a lot less rattles being thrown from our prams
Mitch

 

[Rob]

I think I'm getting to the point where I either avoid getting into or no longer read these arguments anymore, life is too short to fall out with people over Toy Soldiers, so many bad things going on in the world that this hobby is a wonderful escape from all that. Its a shame to see folk hurling insults at each other over what should be a relaxing hobby we are sharing together. I guess also some of us are very tribal whereas others have no one particular favourite producer overall. K&C are by a country mile my favourite producer and produce figures and vehicles I love to collect, but it does not mean I will insult those who collect Conte,Britains, FL or Figarti etc who also produce superb stuff some of which I also collect, it would be shallow, mean spirited and pretty pointless I think. There is I suggest plenty of room for both the flagwavers and those who have questions. Look at me avoiding arguments, I must be getting old!^&grin:wink2:

Rob

 

[uksubs]

What should be accepted by all those who rush to the defence of the manufacturers when a question about accuracy or cost or detail is that its just another opinion and, that they, being in the hobby, have to realise that although some or all of these issues may not matter one jot to them but, it matters to others and many want to have these issues raised.

Everyone seems to forget the myriad of people who rely quite heavily on the opinions of people on here as they may not have a local shop near them or they may not have the ability to attend shows and see sets in person so, they need to have a critical evaluation of the subject matter. Nobody would buy a car without having a good old look at it and that applies to toy soldiers at quite a cost. This is applicable to all manufacturers some people want nice looking sets some want that and, historically accurate and, if the good and bad can be discussed it allows one to evaluate if you want that set or, move onto another.

It should not be ruined by the buy what you like brigade or those who seem to have taken arms to defend their chosen manufacturer where if you mention anything seemingly negative they try to scream outrage and blue murder. Instead of vilifying those who have the ability to see the wrong divisions or the wrong detailing perhaps they should just accept these manufacturers make rickets from time to time and have a quiet word with the manufacturers to research better what they intend to release.

Collectors and some have totally ignored or forgotten this can only discuss what comes out from the manufacturers there is no conspiracy that people are out to get them if a manufacturer expouses this or that and, releases something wrong or something broken or similar are we expected to just applaud their endeavour like automatons or, use our brains and experience and say excuse me that’s not right.

I once said you can tell when its constructive critique and when its a dig as you may not like the company we should all really take a deep breath and, evaluate what is said and,the reasons why it was said then respond then there would be a lot less rattles being thrown from our prams
Mitch

Well said Mitch

 

[debrito]

How gentlemen you are Pat, nice intervention as always....

Best regards.

Gentle Friends,

As this thread has now reached 100 posts, it is clear many forum members are enjoying the discussion. Please do not spoil the discussion by introducing anger and interpersonal conflict into it. Otherwise, moderator intervention will be required. If you have strong feelings and differences with another person, please use PMs to discuss those differences.

Your cooperation is greatly appreciated.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[sammy719]

I think I'm getting to the point where I either avoid getting into or no longer read these arguments anymore, life is too short to fall out with people over Toy Soldiers, so many bad things going on in the world that this hobby is a wonderful escape from all that. Its a shame to see folk hurling insults at each other over what should be a relaxing hobby we are sharing together. I guess also some of us are very tribal whereas others have no one particular favourite producer overall. K&C are by a country mile my favourite producer and produce figures and vehicles I love to collect, but it does not mean I will insult those who collect Conte,Britains, FL or Figarti etc who also produce superb stuff some of which I also collect, it would be shallow, mean spirited and pretty pointless I think. There is I suggest plenty of room for both the flagwavers and those who have questions. Look at me avoiding arguments, I must be getting old!^&grin:wink2:

Rob

Rob,

Don't ever let the negative b.s. of the forum derail your enjoyment of this forum and as a collector, your a positive person, seeing the good instead of the bad, glass is half full not half empty, I enjoy that, some may not, but glad to see you that you make a positive in sometimes a very negative world, I see enough negative energy in a daily basis at work/news/world etc...so keep up your spirits here young man, your posts are enjoyed by many...Sammy

 

[Rob]

Rob,

Don't ever let the negative b.s. of the forum derail your enjoyment of this forum and as a collector, your a positive person, seeing the good instead of the bad, glass is half full not half empty, I enjoy that, some may not, but glad to see you that you make a positive in sometimes a very negative world, I see enough negative energy in a daily basis at work/news/world etc...so keep up your spirits here young man, your posts are enjoyed by many...Sammy

Thanks Sammy that's very kind of you mate and it's much appreciated. I do agree with you about all the crap going on in the world. Do you know this morning I watched the news and it included dozens of folk killed in Pakistan in a Bin Laden revenge bombing, a British woman beheaded in a Spanish supermarket and a man in Iran who is going to have acid poured into his eyes in revenge for throwing acid in his girlfriends face! And I just sometimes think enough!! . I love this hobby and really enjoy this forum that is full of good people, so I am just keeping out of arguments whenever possible.

All the best

Rob

 

[Mitch]

When any of the half full glasses go shopping do you consider the purchase first?? check for damage, ask for warranties or guarantees, shop around for the best deal or just buy the first thing you see and accept it at face value?? when a workman does any DIY in your home or mechanic on your car do you check the work?? I would venture you do as, you are spending good money and, thats exactly the point here no difference just because its a hobby makes it no different. this is sensible as one is spending good money

Apparantly, and this is not aimed at any manufacturer or any individual that bringing up anything which is percieved as negative must automatically mean that you are a half empty glass or, spoiling it for those who want to be seen as half full glasses and are happy seemingly to buy anything whether its right or wrong.

I really don't see the logic behind this mindset.
Mitch

 

[jazzeum]

I think I'm getting to the point where I either avoid getting into or no longer read these arguments anymore, life is too short to fall out with people over Toy Soldiers, so many bad things going on in the world that this hobby is a wonderful escape from all that. Its a shame to see folk hurling insults at each other over what should be a relaxing hobby we are sharing together. I guess also some of us are very tribal whereas others have no one particular favourite producer overall. K&C are by a country mile my favourite producer and produce figures and vehicles I love to collect, but it does not mean I will insult those who collect Conte,Britains, FL or Figarti etc who also produce superb stuff some of which I also collect, it would be shallow, mean spirited and pretty pointless I think. There is I suggest plenty of room for both the flagwavers and those who have questions. Look at me avoiding arguments, I must be getting old!^&grin:wink2:

Rob

I'm with you mate. Hopefully, others will likewise agree. I belong to a jazz forum that has thousands of members and I've never seen the vitriol that we have here.

 

[wayne556517]

I'm with you mate. Hopefully, others will likewise agree. I belong to a jazz forum that has thousands of members and I've never seen the vitriol that we have here.

I belong to a arguing forum and nothing like this goes on there.................{sm3}{sm4}{sm4}{sm4} (Joking of course)

 

[thebritfarmer]

For arguments and spitefulness this has to be one of the worst forums. I belong to a model farm site which has quite a few teenagers and even they are not as bad as some on here. It's a shame really.

Also another point to ponder is that K&C does get the lions share of attention, however there are those that just post everything under the K&C section when they could easily pertain to other areas and interests. Then when someone posts a remark it is seen as bashing K&C because it was in that section of the forum. Sometimes the placement of the thread could make all the difference.

 

[Rob]

I belong to a arguing forum and nothing like this goes on there.................{sm3}{sm4}{sm4}{sm4} (Joking of course)

^&grin

Yes it does! :wink2:

Rob

 

[Warrior]

I think I'm getting to the point where I either avoid getting into or no longer read these arguments anymore, life is too short to fall out with people over Toy Soldiers...................

Rob

You're SO much better off for doing so Rob, just enjoy the hobby and stay away as far as possible from the nonsense, you'll live a longer and happier life mate.........

 

[ecuriel]

When any of the half full glasses go shopping do you consider the purchase first?? check for damage, ask for warranties or guarantees, shop around for the best deal or just buy the first thing you see and accept it at face value?? when a workman does any DIY in your home or mechanic on your car do you check the work?? I would venture you do as, you are spending good money and, thats exactly the point here no difference just because its a hobby makes it no different. this is sensible as one is spending good money

Apparantly, and this is not aimed at any manufacturer or any individual that bringing up anything which is percieved as negative must automatically mean that you are a half empty glass or, spoiling it for those who want to be seen as half full glasses and are happy seemingly to buy anything whether its right or wrong.

I really don't see the logic behind this mindset.
Mitch

Having been in the Investment business for over twenty five years you would be amazed at how people make decisions on real money decisions. The same people who pour over a hundred consumer reports and reviews to determine what television set to buy would "invest their life savings" based on a nephews "hot tip". Although some people need to get every bit of information before buying toys, some of us just buy these things to have fun.

 

[Warrior]

The same people who pour over a hundred consumer reports and reviews to determine what television set to buy would "invest their life savings" based on a nephews "hot tip".

This is classic, reminds me of my late Uncle who was an engineer and never bought a thing without reading and researching and yet sank a ton of dough into Crispy Kreme stock because his clambrained son told him it was the next great thing; one opened locally here and was out of business in six months and in the end, my Uncle lost his shirt on the stocks.

Reminds me of the speculators who sell on Ebay "from time to time because collecting is a process".................

 

[jazzeum]

Although some people need to get every bit of information before buying toys, some of us just buy these things to have fun.

Amen. That is what seems to have been lost here: fun. That is why we originally joined this Forum. We need to go back to the future.

 

[Vezzolf]

The same people who pour over a hundred consumer reports and reviews to determine what television set to buy would "invest their life savings" based on a nephews "hot tip".

I tend to research what I buy, before I buy, and then consider carefully before I do....I'm no different with money investments .....A close friend of mine is an investment broker...He says that I am overly conservative and a "tough sell"^&grin....We remain good friends; and "agree to disagree" sometimes and LEAVE IT AT THAT....Grant it...Not as important with toy soldiers which are supposed to be fun... I agree......But when you consider that most of our collections involve somewhat serious money and with high prices of this hobby....I can see being more careful with purchases as they can really add up........For me I have had to decide; Do I really want a product and is it worth it.

 

[nmrocks]

I actually enjoy the discussion on unit markings, color, model even if it is to point out something incorrect. I never have considered this offensive and I marvel at the knowledge members bring to the forum. But this is not the posts that I speak to, those who read and follow these threads can watch a discussion advance and then watch it turn on a single post. That single post more often than not is posted by one of a few posters that always seem to be the ones that turn the discussion. The change generally has to do not with the actual marking or issue but with the alterior motives of the manufacturer or every issue is treated as a personal affront. It's not good enough to say "No, not for me" or "I'll pass on this one". It has to be thinly veiled insults or even outright insults, dredging up past issues to support the poor performance.
All manufacters do a great job reproducing the past, the goodness far outwieghs the mistakes yet some dwell on errors incessantly, dragging the forum down.
restrict afew who have earned from the K&C threads, same for the FL threads etc.
Peace, flowers, kittens and puppies dogs will follow.^&grin

 

[fmethorst]

I wonder if part of the problem is "the chump factor". Posts critiquing something a person has bought (or is considering buying) could be misinterprepted (i.e. Why would you buy one of those, it didn't even exist? Why would you buy one of those for your Bulge display, they were never there? etc.). While the original critique likely was not intended as a shot at collectors who own or would like to own a particular piece it has the potential to make people feel foolish.

I try not jump into the various manufacturers sections to add critiques unless solicited or I am reviewing a piece. The rigor applied to historical accuracy varies from manufacturer to manufacturer and the desire for it from collector to collector.