Points-to- Ponder (4 Viewers)

[Mitch]

bringen auf ihrem T-34 und russische truppen!!!!
Mitch

 

[Northgate Woods]

To Sum Up A Few Points On The Russian Topic:
1) The whole idea is only a suggestion and open request for "future" consideration by our beloved brand of TS. No one is asking K&C to stop the presses here !
2) The last time these Russians were made was prior to 2007 on what I assume was done on nearly the same production run scale as the "Fall of Berlin" Germans as far as quantities made. That being said the Germans did sell out first.The Russian items are definately all gone and secondary market prices are healthy on them.
3) I have absolutely no doubt at all that Russian items do not sell as quickly as the German items do.The key here is making "Less numbers of the slower
seller" because they are very much still needed by the majority of eastern front collectors.
4) There are a ton of "new" K&C collectors out now since 2007 myself being one of them.There are also a ton of new WWII German/ eastern front items produced since this time.Yes they sell very well as I am a diehard collector of them myself. A few combatants would go along even better !
5) Another spin on the Russian figure issue could be instead of sets of 4 figures in one boxed set, produce 4 figures available for purchase separately and again on the lower end of the production number scale to ensure sell through sales while filling the void in this area of WWII minitatures.
6) I would much, much, much rather wait for K&C to make them than whoever else as mixing other brands together with K&C feels just like it sounds.....mixing
7) How awesome would it be for somewhere in the near future to add a new K&C
limited T-34 to display with all of the new German "VOLKSTURM" figures and sprinkle in a few infantry to the display ? WWII was the most epic battle of modern time.
8 out of every 10 German soldiers killed during WWII were killed by Russians on the eastern front. The T-34 is still praised as the #1 top ten tank to date based on its production numbers, sloping armor, speed and good firepower.
**************************************************************
Again only discussing some pro's and con's on adding possibly some items to an already existing and very popular series, the European theater of War. I think I personally have expended enough air on this subject and will give it a rest and go back to gazing at my own collection of top of the line King&Country miniatures.

PanzerAce mate,
You put up some fine debatable points my Texican friend. I have just written a note about Russians in my "Ask Andy Questions Book". He and young Helen are due in the Land of Oz in about four weeks time touring Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne and I will surely ask him about "Russians". It should make for an interesting subject of conversation around the meal table.
Cheers from the Land Downunder, Howard

PS Enjoy the San Antonio Show. (Love that Town)^&grin

 

[lancer]

I am not real concerned with the making of a deep collection of Russian figures and vehicles. What I would like, and believe essential, is for someone to make a T-34 or KV-1 that I can use with the German armor and figures I have. Mid-war period (read Kursk, Kharkov) would be fantastic and I wouldn't mind surrendering/casualties for Russian figures. Just someone make the T-34, please. First one at a decent price gets the cash. -- Al

 

[PanzerAce1944]

NorthGateWoods, They sounds like a great idea. Throw the fishing line out there and see if anything hooks with Mr. Andy. Again we are only asking for a little to add not
a big deep endeavor. By the way I think the term is "Texan" as a Texican is something totally else. CHeeeeers Wooody ^&grin

 

[Northgate Woods]

NorthGateWoods, They sounds like a great idea. Throw the fishing line out there and see if anything hooks with Mr. Andy. Again we are only asking for a little to add not
a big deep endeavor. By the way I think the term is "Texan" as a Texican is something totally else. CHeeeeers Wooody ^&grin

Woody mate,
Sorry about that cobber. Hope it wasn't offensive in the US of A or the Mods will be on my back. I picked the name "Texican" up from a great movie "The Alamo" with the fantastic John Wayne. I remember him being from Kentuck and calling the guys at the Alamo, Texicans. No offence meant.
Cheers Howard

 

[wadepat]

Woody mate,
Sorry about that cobber. Hope it wasn't offensive in the US of A or the Mods will be on my back. I picked the name "Texican" up from a great movie "The Alamo" with the fantastic John Wayne. I remember him being from Kentuck and calling the guys at the Alamo, Texicans. No offence meant.
Cheers Howard

Hi Howard,

Let me expand a bit on the term, "Texican." Specifically, "Texican" references citizens of the Republic of Texas. That is to say, "Texican" is how citizens of Texas were referenced during the struggle for Texas Independence and during the time Texas was a separate country. In this case, referencing John Wayne as a "Texican" in the movie, The Alamo, is essentially a correct reference.

The term is also occasionally used to describe a Texan of Mexican descent.

More recently, the term has been resurrected to refer to a small portion of the Texas population that advocate a specific, but highly controversial, political action.

I hope the above is helpful to you.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat :smile2:

 

[Northgate Woods]

Hi Howard,

Let me expand a bit on the term, "Texican." Specifically, "Texican" references citizens of the Republic of Texas. That is to say, "Texican" is how citizens of Texas were referenced during the struggle for Texas Independence and during the time Texas was a separate country. In this case, referencing John Wayne as a "Texican" in the movie, The Alamo, is essentially a correct reference.

The term is also occasionally used to describe a Texan of Mexican descent.

More recently, the term has been resurrected to refer to a small portion of the Texas population that advocate a specific, but highly controversial, political action.

I hope the above is helpful to you.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat :smile2:

Pat mate,
Many thanks for the intel cobber. No politics on this Forum. I sure do like Texas and would not like to upset the locals. Might get thrown out of the Mad Dog Bar in San Antonio earlier than I would have liked.^&grin My big mate young Michael Miller might also come down on me like a ton of bricks.^&grin
Cheers Howard

 

[marksable]

Just want to start out by saying my intent is not to dredge up an old post or open old wounds. But, I really have been "pondering" these points for a while and felt I needed to respond.

"I’m just taking a bit of a break from a big desert diorama that I’m building for one of our collectors in Holland… So, thought I’d reply on a few points…"

Gordon, Andy - thanks for replying to these points. Whatever follows your responses are truly appreciated. One of the things that I've liked about K&C in the years I've been collecting has been the accessibility of you and Andy. It's saddened me that Andy has chosen to withdraw his presence on the forum lately.

"1. Retiring a Scenic…
I’m sorry “Polar Bear” is upset that K&C is retiring certain pieces but here are the actual facts and …reasons."

Again, I appreciate these answers, and I respect whatever business decisions K&C makes in terms of when you retire figures, AFVs or scenics.

I do think you missed Polar Bear's point though. He was obviously very excited that you were releasing Napoleonics in Egypt. And he was disappointed because there were many pieces that would have gone well with those Naps - Cleo's needle, the desert village - that would go well with them (and many of which are displayed in the adverts/Collector for them) - but are retired.

What I took from his post was not someone whining about the overall policy of retirements. But rather, a bit of frustration, because had he known that there were Egyptian Naps coming out, he probably would have bought those scenics before they were retired.

As you say later on re: Seal Team Six, it takes a while between planning and release. I think this is an example of a situation where, had a consumer known what you were planning, they probably would have bought now retired pieces.

For me, I know in trying to decide between the variations of RAF Fuel Bowsers, it would be great to know what Desert RAF planes and/or personnel will be produced. On a pricey item, it would help to know what kind of support I could expect. And I would imagine K&C has SOME idea of what their plans are in that area.

That said, I know K&C has to balance the need to help the consumer make informed decisions with not promising something that might not be released, not giving up "the element of surprise" to competitors etc.

But I thought it was a very legitimate point for Polar Bear to make.

"3. “Russians”
I like Russians… Andy likes Russians… You all like Russians… Even Russians like Russians!
So, now that we accept that undisputed fact… how come (other manufacturers) are not assaulting you all with hordes of Russian infantry, fighting vehicles, aircraft and a dozen other things… Ever wonder why?

This has been gone into at length, but I' make two points here:

1) Until this thread I'm not sure your above statement was an "undisputed fact".

Here were the "facts" before this thread:

a)Figarti had a very successful sell-out with the JS-2. FL makes Russians, and CS has made statement on their forum that they are likely to do something Russian.
b) K&C has been producing A LOT of Eastern Front Germans,
c) there seems to be desire from the collectors on this forum,
d) the after-market (e-bay etc.) for Russian figures is quite healthy
e) The most requested Russian AFV is the T-34, one of the most iconic tanks in WWII
f) many times Andy has said "no" and a product or range has been released, or he's said something's coming out and he's not.

Now, after reading what you and other posters wrote, I get that other manufacturers can get away with lower sales because they produce less than K&C; that Germans evidently sell so well they don't need opposition; that the after-market and forum are not necessarily indicators of how well something sells.

But while I might have missed those points (and truly appreciate them being pointed out), I think you and others are missing this point:

2) What's the harm in speculation?

I felt like the responses to speculations that their might be Russians were met with a dismissive, combative and condescending tone by many people on the other side of this.

I don't think there was any malicious intent on the part of those wishing for Russian figures. I think simply a hope on their/our part that Andy will produce them. This reflects not only a desire (albeit the desire of a minority) to see Russians, but a desire to see KING AND COUNTRY RUSSIANS. Maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but I think that comes from a place of love for K&C and the way in which they produce such beautiful figures.

It's absolutely K&C's prerogative to not produce these figures, for economic or creative reasons. I just wish instead of calling us "so-called experts" and telling us to stop asking, we could hear - "thanks for your enthusiasm, it just just doesn't make sense.

I'm sure it gets tiring and frustrating shooting down the same requests, but as long as those requests are made respectfully I'd hope the responses could be as well.

If we can't speculate or wish for new items...what is this forum for? Maybe the poll option or suggestions thread should be removed. Speaking of which...

" 4. “The Forum”
"I know I love reading it (as does Andy)"

Lately - I've been doubting that. To some extent, I don't blame you guys. Some of the criticism is over the top, to say the least.

At the same time, there seems to me a shift it the tone in which forum members are spoken to that I'm not sure is merited.


"Alas some among us believe that toy soldiers and military miniatures can be produced instantly and turned on or off like a light switch. Similarly, if an event like “The Death of Bin Laden” happens then… hey presto… Seal Team Six and the now deceased Osama will appear, as if by magic on their shelves."

Again, I think this is really missing the point here. I believe I was the first person to call for "The Death of Bin Laden"/Seal Team Six figures. That was in part due to my pride over what the Seals accomplished, and in part because I love modern figures, especially dearly departed K&C's Special Forces line. The latter of which I went to great lengths and expense to track down and complete.

I did not expect that they would "magically appear". I did say that I think such might do well. Evidently, expressing that makes me a "so-called expert". I never professed to be an expert. At best? My statements were wishful thinking. At worst, I'm making uninformed speculation. Again I ask, what is the harm?

I don't mind being told that K&C will not produce figures I'm asking/hoping for, or that they won't sell as well as I might like or think. What I do mind is being derided for asking.

(CONTINUED)

 

[marksable]

CONTINUED from the previous post (with apologies re: length)

"2. “Business Not What It Used To Be”
Well, none of us know that the future holds… but as far as we know K&C’s Business is in a very healthy position and continues to grow..."

I defer to K&C as to whether their business and the TS industry continues to grow. You clearly have hard sales figures from retailers that the rest of us don't. I HOPE it's the case - that's good news for collectors, retailers and for the people who work in the industry.

But I don't think it's unreasonable for a collector or forum member to reach a different conclusion. Without your sales data, of course we are going to use our own, anecdotal experience to speculate.

We've all witnessed a worldwide recession that we are hopefully starting to recover from. Few of us have seen our incomes rise, and yet we've seen prices rise, not just on new products but on back stock. K&C also seems to be retiring pieces at faster rate.

Taking all those fact into consideration, I think it's entirely reasonable for one to raise the possibility that the a company or an industry might be experiencing a bit of the same downturn others are right now.

K&C has said those choices were business necessities due to rising labor costs, need for storage space etc. I absolutely take you guys at your word. And if you say that business is great - I also take you at your word.

But I think there's a difference between assuming that these price rises are part of K&C's "greed" as perhaps a tiny minority have, and hobbyists with very real concerns about price rises speculating that there may be some trouble in the industry.

Again, I appreciate you telling us - and I/m glad to to hear - that business is booming.

I don't think it's particularly fair or helpful to lump every critical voice in the same category as "the usual suspects".

What's my point of with all this, aside from putting off work I need to do?

With respect, I don't believe K&C's communication has been at it's best this year. I think that has in some way contributed to mistaken assumptions about the K&C's policies, the health of the TS industry etc.

For example - finding out certain info about unpleasant news from sources other than K&C, the ME-262 tailsitter problem (where those who brought it up were mocked and dismissed, only to have been proven right, and to this day there hasn't been an official acknowledgment/apology from K&C) etc.

It's not the bad news itself - it's the way in which it's delivered (or not delivered).

All that capped off by a rather snide remark in the latest dispatches about the usual suspects...it's left a bad taste in my mouth.

The reason those things stand out to me is that they are UNCHARACTERISTIC for K&C, which has usually had GREAT communication with its fan base.

And this post is a step back in the right direction, IMO, one which I appreciate. So please take that as CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM.

I will continue to buy K&C as long as you produce great products and I can afford them. Just as you say we should "buy what we like, don't buy what we don't", I'll continue to praise what I like (which is 90% of the time), and ON OCCASSION, express what I don't as long as this forum allows me to. I'll continue to suggest things I'd like to see, greet those that are made with excitement, and accept those that aren't with respectful disappointment. And I'll likely continue to speculate about all sorts of things, hopefully in a more informed manner thanks to your post and those of others on this forum.

My sincere hope is that K&C will treat those who are from time to time unhappy or misinformed with a bit more respect.

Regardless, I thank you and Andy for your great products, service and for taking whatever time you can to post here.

Best,

Mark

 

[wadepat]

Hi Mark,

My compliments for an excellent and most respectful post. You make your points with great clarity and thoughtfulness. It is a joy to read a post that combines concerns with compliments, specific points with examples, and conclusions with humility. Thank you for your kind, respectful, and thought provoking words.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat :smile2:

 

[thebritfarmer]

That is a great post Mark, well thought out and concise. Thanks for sharing some of your thoughts with us.

 

[Currahee Chris]

and concise.

hmmm. interesting, not sure I agree that two complete pages of posting fits the definitions of "concise" :tongue:

Me personally, I can't really say I care good or bad about how he addresses his fan base. While I admit collectors have the right to be offended/ puzzled, etc. it really doesn't bother me one way or the other. Everyone has to make the decision for themselves. And yes, the guy has done something I could never have the talent to do. He represents a whole lot of working people in his organization and deals with the sacrifices and challenges they all have to bear. I can't blame him for coming on here either and telling the "usual suspects" to pound sand. Let's be honest here, there are people who as the one FNG posted the other day, who like to make a hobby out of bashing KC. Stuff gets old for me as a member to read, it's got to be doubly irritating for him too.

I sent him a few pms a few months ago and he did respond to me in a professional manner. Didn't get the result I wanted but we agreed to disagree and called it a day. I've made my decisions as a collector and he made his as a businessman. Nothing else we can do.

 

[HAWKEYE]

All i have to say is " bring on king and country russians". Well put mark

 

[wwiibuff]

Excellent post Mark.

 

[nmrocks]

Mark's post is good, but I will respectfully disagree about the Hateraide drinkers who post with spite. I have suggested to the moderators a simple solution of banning certain people from certain catagories though I think it has happened to some already? I wonder if I meet some of these people face to face if they will bear a huge scare or other disfigurement caused by King and Country? There vitriol seems to have an unending supply?

 

[uksubs]

Mark's post is good, but I will respectfully disagree about the Hateraide drinkers who post with spite. I have suggested to the moderators a simple solution of banning certain people from certain catagories though I think it has happened to some already? I wonder if I meet some of these people face to face if they will bear a huge scare or other disfigurement caused by King and Country? There vitriol seems to have an unending supply?

Have you heard of freedom of speech ?& who are you to say who should be banned ^&confuse , I like to here everyone opinion & think it make this hobby very interesting & like people said before if you don't like what they say there is always the ignore button !:wink2:

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I agree Marksables post was very good.Open minded and fair. Every collector regardless of which brand is "Their" favorite should be able to openly express their opinions on topics in this forum and add their input for suggesting possible future releases. I totally agree that some people were getting very negatively opinionated when a suggestion was guided toward the head shed to produce a particular product. Let's respect each others thoughts and suggestions and leave the final decision making to the manufacturer, as at the end of the day it will be their sole decision that will be the end result. One last note to reflect on is each series or particular era of miniatures made deserves a counter part series to be paired up with. Wouldn't the 250 series help address collectors gaps in their collections while ensuring the complete production run sells out ? I myself love King&Country and would never ever want the company to endure any problems with their products.
I am getting ready to place my next order for all of the new "Volksturm" figures coming out this month.Hopefully they will have some K&C made opposition to face off with one day !
Happy Collecting To All !!!!!

 

[nmrocks]

Have you heard of freedom of speech ?& who are you to say who should be banned ^&confuse , I like to here everyone opinion & think it make this hobby very interesting & like people said before if you don't like what they say there is always the ignore button !:wink2:

Sorry UK, I respectfully part ways with you as well, Yours or anybody else's freedom of speech rights simply do not apply here, this is a private enterprise, not the floor of Congress. Being a private enterprise you use it at the owners discretion, you really have no rights except to be bound by a code of conduct to be set by the proprietors of this site. Anyway thinly veiled alterior motives really should be unacceptable to all.
So you think I should do a work around, in what i consider the house of a friend, selectively ignore people who are consistanly offensive like there's some valor in ignoring an abuser, Sorry I wasn't raised that way, I'm much more likely to protect. I've used the feature in the past for personality reason, not so i don't have to listen to abuse being heaped on a friend.^&grin

 

[WWii addict]

Mark, Excellent Post :smile2:

 

[uksubs]

Sorry UK, I respectfully part ways with you as well, Yours or anybody else's freedom of speech rights simply do not apply here, this is a private enterprise, not the floor of Congress. Being a private enterprise you use it at the owners discretion, you really have no rights except to be bound by a code of conduct to be set by the proprietors of this site. Anyway thinly veiled alterior motives really should be unacceptable to all.
So you think I should do a work around, in what i consider the house of a friend, selectively ignore people who are consistanly offensive like there's some valor in ignoring an abuser, Sorry I wasn't raised that way, I'm much more likely to protect. I've used the feature in the past for personality reason, not so i don't have to listen to abuse being heaped on a friend.^&grin

My point is it not down to you or me to say what can or can' t be said on the forum it down to the owner of the forum