Points-to- Ponder (4 Viewers)

[HAWKEYE]

yeah, but out of more than 2,000 members, only 85 cared enough to vote, and only 57 indicated that would buy the item. I'm one of the members who didn't care enough to vote, and if i did, you would not like my vote. If i'm in andy's shoes, this poll isn't making me reconsider my conclusion that russian stuff just doesn't sell well enough to invest the time and money to design, sculpt, approve, manufacture, package and ship a run, especially when the production run would interfere with the production of items he knows historically sell better.

louis, i am sure you didn't give your buddy rick figarti that same advice because his russian items sold very well, great stuff. Try to find a js2. Overall i think we all ought to relax. We can't have everything we want made at once. I am sure andy will get around to dabbling a little with the russians and he will do a great job. I am waiting for a 250 series myself. If not this year than maybe next god willing

 

[Louis Badolato]

louis, i am sure you didn't give your buddy rick figarti that same advice because his russian items sold very well, great stuff. Try to find a js2. Overall i think we all ought to relax. We can't have everything we want made at once. I am sure andy will get around to dabbling a little with the russians and he will do a great job. I am waiting for a 250 series myself. If not this year than maybe next god willing

Actually, Rick and I have discussed it (as has Andy and I). Rick asked me what I thought about his being able to sell 100 JS2's. I said he definitely could, and he did. However, Figarti made 100 of the Russian self propelled gun and that has not sold out to date. Rick and Andy have a different business model. Rick makes 100 of each item in a run, whereas Andy is looking to sell several hundred. Even in his "250" runs, he makes 3 different versions of the same model, and looks to sell a total of 750. In the past, when K&C did the 2 different runs of Russians, Andy was never satisfied with the sales. I am sure someone (perhaps Andy, perhaps Rick) will do a T-34 in the future, but don't expect a lot of Russian products from Andy.

 

[jazzeum]

louis, i am sure you didn't give your buddy rick figarti that same advice because his russian items sold very well, great stuff. Try to find a js2. Overall i think we all ought to relax. We can't have everything we want made at once. I am sure andy will get around to dabbling a little with the russians and he will do a great job. I am waiting for a 250 series myself. If not this year than maybe next god willing

I re-sold a JS 2 and, trust me, people weren't breakin' the door down to buy it.

 

[Vezzolf]

The Figarti JS-2 is a great model.....And sold out very quickly.....Really like it.....If Figarti would have made a T-34/85 it would have sold out just as quickly...not a good choice to make the self propelled just not as popular I guess...The T-34 is more iconic and would sell better.

 

[marco55]

Yeah, but out of more than 2,000 members, only 85 cared enough to vote, and only 57 indicated that would buy the item. I'm one of the members who didn't care enough to vote, and if I did, you would not like my vote. If I'm in Andy's shoes, this poll isn't making me reconsider my conclusion that Russian stuff just doesn't sell well enough to invest the time and money to design, sculpt, approve, manufacture, package and ship a run, especially when the production run would interfere with the production of items he knows historically sell better.

Do you think 57 would vote for an ancient Greek line?
Mark

 

[Louis Badolato]

Do you think 57 would vote for an ancient Greek line?
Mark

I have no idea. I don't collect the ancients, not my period of interest. I just want it noted for the record that I bought every one of the K&C Russian sets, actually own one of 5 ever made K&C IL2 Sturmovic's, have the production models (and in the case of the JS2 the prototype as well) of the Figarti items, and have a Hudson and Allen Stalingrad Factory diorama populated with First Legion Russians and Germans, so I'm not anti-russian front. I am merely trying to explain the rationale behind Andy's decision not to produce more Russian sets (which is identical to the reason he doesn't produce Pacific theater sets) - he has given two productions runs to both subjects, and they were all disappointments sales wise.

Believe me, as I collector I would asbolutely prefer Andy producing Russian men and tanks to the LAH parade and life of Hitler and his buddies stuff. But, ask any dealer, and they will tell you the LAH stuff (which I don't collect) flies off the shelf. Put yourself in Andy's shoes, do you produce LAH or Waffen SS figures and vehicles that fly off the shelves, or Russian stuff that will sit in your warehouse for for a couple of years?

At the 2010 Symposium, there was this guy at the Tse Yang dinner who haranged Andy for around 2 hours about how Andy was crazy for not producing Maximilian/Mexican sets. He was convinced they would sell like hot cakes, and was telling Andy he knew they would sell, he had talked to people about it, heck, he knew a guy who spent 60,000 on a Mexican Helmet from the period. No matter how Andy tried to explain that he wasn't interested in doing it, didn't think it would sell, etc, this guy wouldn't give up. I don't want to equate Soviet men and armor with Maximilian's forces, but I think Andy has a similar feeling that it just won't sell.

 

[jazzeum]

What do you mean Maximillian won't sell? I'm shocked, actually appalled that you would think that! :rolleyes2:

 

[wayne556517]

Oh no LAH has been mentioned...............{sm5}

 

[marco55]

I have no idea. I don't collect the ancients, not my period of interest. I just want it noted for the record that I bought every one of the K&C Russian sets, actually own one of 5 ever made K&C IL2 Sturmovic's, have the production models (and in the case of the JS2 the prototype as well) of the Figarti items, and have a Hudson and Allen Stalingrad Factory diorama populated with First Legion Russians and Germans, so I'm not anti-russian front. I am merely trying to explain the rationale behind Andy's decision not to produce more Russian sets (which is identical to the reason he doesn't produce Pacific theater sets) - he has given two productions runs to both subjects, and they were all disappointments sales wise.

Believe me, as I collector I would asbolutely prefer Andy producing Russian men and tanks to the LAH parade and life of Hitler and his buddies stuff. But, ask any dealer, and they will tell you the LAH stuff (which I don't collect) flies off the shelf. Put yourself in Andy's shoes, do you produce LAH or Waffen SS figures and vehicles that fly off the shelves, or Russian stuff that will sit in your warehouse for for a couple of years?

At the 2010 Symposium, there was this guy at the Tse Yang dinner who haranged Andy for around 2 hours about how Andy was crazy for not producing Maximilian/Mexican sets. He was convinced they would sell like hot cakes, and was telling Andy he knew they would sell, he had talked to people about it, heck, he knew a guy who spent 60,000 on a Mexican Helmet from the period. No matter how Andy tried to explain that he wasn't interested in doing it, didn't think it would sell, etc, this guy wouldn't give up. I don't want to equate Soviet men and armor with Maximilian's forces, but I think Andy has a similar feeling that it just won't sell.

It's hard to say what will sell,I just can't see ancient Greeks doing better but maybe Andy wants to give something to the non WWII guys.FL Russians seem to do ok but really there's probably less then 10 who post here who collect them,not saying that there isn't many more out there.Myself if I collected WWII I would want thr Pacific.
Mark

 

[wayne556517]

I reckon we just leave Andy + Gordon alone to run there business and let them concentrate on more WW2 German stuff especially a "STUKA"..............

 

[The Military Workshop]

Mark,
I would have to disagree with your comment about Greeks not selling as well as WWII Russians. As a dealer I would like some Russians but given a choice I would prefer Greeks. With Greeks there is more chance to get new collectors into the hobby whose only interest may be that period. Many will have studied that period at school and there have been a few good movies to awaken the interest. In addition with certain Greek poses such as walking, advancing, phalanx, archers etc there is far more chance people will buy multiples than with combat Russians.
However if K&C was to do both that would be great. (No pressure Andy just add them to the list after Maximilian and the Mexicans !!!).
Regards
Brett

 

[damian]

Without getting into the issue of Russians and whether they would sell or not , sometimes you get the feeling that K and C are a bit set in their ways. How many times did people ask for Victorian era colonial campaigns (AZW, Sudan, NW Frontier) etc. Each time the response was not very positive from K and C. Currently a lot of other companies are meeting this demand with pretty comprehensive ranges of figures and i have a suspicion that this was a missed opportunity for K and C. In terms of both sales and from a competition point of view of allowing certain other companies back into the game so to speak. I think that is what some of the Eastern Front people have in mind when they ask for these figures. First Legion ( which I don't have any of) decided deliberately to focus on the Eastern Front to meet this demand.

 

[Rutledge]

Without getting into the issue of Russians and whether they would sell or not , sometimes you get the feeling that K and C are a bit set in their ways. How many times did people ask for Victorian era colonial campaigns (AZW, Sudan, NW Frontier) etc. Each time the response was not very positive from K and C. Currently a lot of other companies are meeting this demand with pretty comprehensive ranges of figures and i have a suspicion that this was a missed opportunity for K and C. In terms of both sales and from a competition point of view of allowing certain other companies back into the game so to speak. I think that is what some of the Eastern Front people have in mind when they ask for these figures. First Legion ( which I don't have any of) decided deliberately to focus on the Eastern Front to meet this demand.

But how much demand has there been for FL Eastern Front? That is a question to which no one here has the answer. It seems logical that if it were substantial, kc would have no objection to making more themselves. Just cause you make it, doesn't mean they'll come.

 

[damian]

But how much demand has there been for FL Eastern Front? That is a question to which no one here has the answer. It seems logical that if it were substantial, kc would have no objection to making more themselves. Just cause you make it, doesn't mean they'll come.

I haven't got the foggiest. But the British Victorian period seems to be pretty popular if you ask a few other companies. Several of the companies now leveraging off this era were pretty much down and out a few years ago. But they have seen a bit of a gap in the market and have exploited it. Currently all these companies ignore WWII as a whole but once they have re-established a presence then who knows. My point is that K and C were always quite luke warm about getting into this era at all. With Russians I would say they are ice cold.

 

[jules118]

I reckon we just leave Andy + Gordon alone to run their business ...

Agree 100% ...all too often everybody has an expert opinion on what SHOULD be done and what will sell, except none of the 'experts' have actually done any of it (produce, market, sell and make enough profit to grow the business) themselves. So outside of their own self interest or peer group, which includes this forum, they don't actually have any experience to back up the expert opinion/advice they offer.

If K&C believe that at this point of time there won't be sufficient interest to move into a particular era or produce certain items then we have to accept their decision. It's their business and they know it better than all of us here combined. I may not be happy with some of their decisions such as not producing a Pirate Junk or eagerly rushing out to start a French Indochina series, but it's not my company and I understand and accept that there are bigger considerations than my demands or of a minority of collectors. No doubt if they thought a release or series would sell in sufficient numbers at the cost required to make it viable over the medium to long term, they would consider it and make a decision based on their actual expert opinion.

Be happy that companies such as K&C exist and thankful that we are in a position to indulge ourselves by participating in this hobby. If something is released that we like and can afford, then good... if not, invest or spend what you have elsewhere, but never forget that so many people don't have the choices that we do.

 

[Northgate Woods]

Jules mate,
Nice post, sensible and to the point. By the way didn't you get your Chinese Pirate Junk. It a great piece and goes well with the San Pablo, the US Launch and the other smaller junks. Makes a fantastic dio with HK sets and SP Jetties. Absolutely love mine.
Cheers Howard^&grin

PS Sorry cobber was just joking about the Pirate Junk. I too was looking forward to getting one, but that life.:smile2:

 

[uksubs]

Agree 100% ...all too often everybody has an expert opinion on what SHOULD be done and what will sell, except none of the 'experts' have actually done any of it (produce, market, sell and make enough profit to grow the business) themselves. So outside of their own self interest or peer group, which includes this forum, they don't actually have any experience to back up the expert opinion/advice they offer.

If K&C believe that at this point of time there won't be sufficient interest to move into a particular era or produce certain items then we have to accept their decision. It's their business and they know it better than all of us here combined. I may not be happy with some of their decisions such as not producing a Pirate Junk or eagerly rushing out to start a French Indochina series, but it's not my company and I understand and accept that there are bigger considerations than my demands or of a minority of collectors. No doubt if they thought a release or series would sell in sufficient numbers at the cost required to make it viable over the medium to long term, they would consider it and make a decision based on their actual expert opinion.

Be happy that companies such as K&C exist and thankful that we are in a position to indulge ourselves by participating in this hobby. If something is released that we like and can afford, then good... if not, invest or spend what you have elsewhere, but never forget that so many people don't have the choices that we do.

Think your spot & think were lucky with the choice we have

 

[Mitch]

Well, the Jagdtiger was a definate definate no and its out so, we will have to wait and see if russians and other definate no's come out. Bets anyone???????
Mitch

 

[Mitch]

All these people telling the forum how Andy will not do or, does not like russians!!! wonder what they will say when the bolshevik hordes move west again??????
Mitch

 

[PanzerAce1944]

To Sum Up A Few Points On The Russian Topic:
1) The whole idea is only a suggestion and open request for "future" consideration by our beloved brand of TS. No one is asking K&C to stop the presses here !
2) The last time these Russians were made was prior to 2007 on what I assume was done on nearly the same production run scale as the "Fall of Berlin" Germans as far as quantities made. That being said the Germans did sell out first.The Russian items are definately all gone and secondary market prices are healthy on them.
3) I have absolutely no doubt at all that Russian items do not sell as quickly as the German items do.The key here is making "Less numbers of the slower
seller" because they are very much still needed by the majority of eastern front collectors.
4) There are a ton of "new" K&C collectors out now since 2007 myself being one of them.There are also a ton of new WWII German/ eastern front items produced since this time.Yes they sell very well as I am a diehard collector of them myself. A few combatants would go along even better !
5) Another spin on the Russian figure issue could be instead of sets of 4 figures in one boxed set, produce 4 figures available for purchase separately and again on the lower end of the production number scale to ensure sell through sales while filling the void in this area of WWII minitatures.
6) I would much, much, much rather wait for K&C to make them than whoever else as mixing other brands together with K&C feels just like it sounds.....mixing
7) How awesome would it be for somewhere in the near future to add a new K&C
limited T-34 to display with all of the new German "VOLKSTURM" figures and sprinkle in a few infantry to the display ? WWII was the most epic battle of modern time.
8 out of every 10 German soldiers killed during WWII were killed by Russians on the eastern front. The T-34 is still praised as the #1 top ten tank to date based on its production numbers, sloping armor, speed and good firepower.
**************************************************************
Again only discussing some pro's and con's on adding possibly some items to an already existing and very popular series, the European theater of War. I think I personally have expended enough air on this subject and will give it a rest and go back to gazing at my own collection of top of the line King&Country miniatures.