Price Increases (3 Viewers)

[Vezzolf]

Getting in late on this discussion regarding: "Price Increases".....There is no doubt that we are paying more for less/ or the same.....#1) K/C Price Increases on "old inventory" sitting on dealer shelves..... #2)Recent and public heavy handed K/C tactics in regards to dealers offering show discounts was the last straw for me.....#3) Generally Speaking there have been "only" modest increases in detail and quality in K/C products with disproportionate price increases for newer items.....#4) Stimulating price increases by retired products strategies thus creating "perceived valuation"......These factors have done little to foster loyalty to the product brand for me.....There is an economic limit to everything.....Therefore I will definitely be buying less and carefully scrutinizing what I am buying.....Not too willing to keep paying: "More for Less".......

 

[J.Sparrow]

It's really sad cause at the rate that this is going, people will be forced out of collecting Toy Soldier figures.
It's also a shame being that the manufacturing and collecting of Toy Soldiers started years back for children.

Regarding prices, I'd like to know what the inside price is a dealer pays for either a set of figures or a vehicle. As most know, when attending shows dealers give anywhere between a 10% and 20% discount on sets. They must still be making money. So one tends to ask, what do the items really cost if the dealers can provide these discounts.

 

[uksubs]

It's really sad cause at the rate that this is going, people will be forced out of collecting Toy Soldier figures.
It's also a shame being that the manufacturing and collecting of Toy Soldiers started years back for children.

Regarding prices, I'd like to know what the inside price is a dealer pays for either a set of figures or a vehicle. As most know, when attending shows dealers give anywhere between a 10% and 20% discount on sets. They must still be making money. So one tends to ask, what do the items really cost if the dealers can provide these discounts.

Should be no discount on K&C items

 

[J.Sparrow]

I do understand that's the official position from K&C, but this has being going on for years at shows I've attended. All the major players discount. It's like a secret society if you will. They will DENY IT but it's still happens.

 

[thebritfarmer]

I am not sure with K&C but I do know that others sell to dealears at 100% markup.

 

[Private Ryan]

HI Duke,

I hear your concerns, and I feel your pain. Increases in the cost of living are a generally accepted reality, but when our hobbies have disproportionate, precipitous price increases, it can create quite the quandary. I've definitely been buying less, and I have decided after the Westcoaster (note keyword "after"), I am going to develop a new game plan to deal with these seemingly continuous toy soldier price increases. I love this hobby too much to give it up, but like Lancer said, my frustration level has risen w/ the prices as things we might have been able to afford in the past are now out of reach or must be attained via bypassing something else of similar interest. However, I have also noticed something else taking place, and that is that I I am now appreciating my individual purchases more these days. I think I am enjoying them to the fullest perhaps more than ever. (Does less collecting=happier collecting even if I'm spending the same amount of money as I was when I was buying less?) I'm certainly really enjoying what I already have.
Also, I have bought and do buy from multiple manufacturer's. If I'm having to pay more to get my fill, then I am going to buy the best. IMHO, K & C is the best overall, so I find some solace in that. If I have to pay $99.00 for a three figure set, then it's going to be by the best three figure set maker on the market. As I mentioned before, I will soon be reassessing my buying trends, and I, like many of us, have some tough decisions ahead. For instance, as much as I like it, I might be retiring from collecting the MK line altogether, which may or may not include selling off all of what I have acquired from the range. I'm also considering getting rid of entire arms of my collection that are not K & C. There was a when it almost made sense p) and I could branch out here and there, but w/ the way the direction prices are headed, every purchase must be carefully weighed; the margin of error has shrunk. So guess I will be thinning the herd along multiple fronts as it seems a necessary evil. I hope others too can "gameplan" around the financial restrictions that are now blanketing the hobby so we can all find away to stay involved and happy. Hopefully the manufacturer's remain engaged in such evaluations as we work toward a common goal, which includes trying to attract new collectors to keep the hobby alive and grow it.

Joe

I'm a new collecter, and i bought a couple of figures while on vacation- this started my interest in the hobby, and I really didn't think much of it paying $32 per figure, but then when i looked at the prices only a couple of years ago---, and I have no problem telling you that I want the tanks such as the tigers, Shermans etc, but i'm having a mental block over spending $200+ on something that I could fit in a desk drawer...

 

[lancer]

When I was in the military history book business, the publishers had a scale of discounts that could run as high as 60% (unusual and for large orders), usually somewhere around 40-42% for normal orders (the 3-4 copies type of thing) and sometimes as low as 20% for the specialty or university presses. Now, these were for new books where the profit margin could be small. The money was made on used (secondary market) books where the rule of thumb was to triple the money the dealer payed for the book, on resale to the customer. Obviously, the profit was variable. It's possible the TS manufacturers slide their discounts based on numbers ordered but I imagine it is probably fixed to most dealers. For a dealer to double their money on a given item does not sound excessive, (but I doubt they do once everything is factored in), its just that the base price from the maker is high. -- Al

 

[churchmouse1]

My industry is a little different. Labor prices remain static, but raw materials fluctuate. My vendors are always raising prices when the raw materials go up, saying, "we've put our price increases off for too long to protect you, the middleman." However, only one of my vendors reduces his prices when the cost of materials drops. FYI, Swarovski has dropped their prices on crystal. Maybe a good time to change hobbies; I know my wife would appreciate it!

Dave

 

[churchmouse1]

When I was in the military history book business, the publishers had a scale of discounts that could run as high as 60% (unusual and for large orders), usually somewhere around 40-42% for normal orders (the 3-4 copies type of thing) and sometimes as low as 20% for the specialty or university presses. Now, these were for new books where the profit margin could be small. The money was made on used (secondary market) books where the rule of thumb was to triple the money the dealer payed for the book, on resale to the customer. Obviously, the profit was variable. It's possible the TS manufacturers slide their discounts based on numbers ordered but I imagine it is probably fixed to most dealers. For a dealer to double their money on a given item does not sound excessive, (but I doubt they do once everything is factored in), its just that the base price from the maker is high. -- Al

I'm guessing K&C dealers pay 60% of retail plus freight.

Dave

 

[wwiibuff]

HI Duke,

I hear your concerns, and I feel your pain. Increases in the cost of living are a generally accepted reality, but when our hobbies have disproportionate, precipitous price increases, it can create quite the quandary. I've definitely been buying less, and I have decided after the Westcoaster (note keyword "after"), I am going to develop a new game plan to deal with these seemingly continuous toy soldier price increases. I love this hobby too much to give it up, but like Lancer said, my frustration level has risen w/ the prices as things we might have been able to afford in the past are now out of reach or must be attained via bypassing something else of similar interest. However, I have also noticed something else taking place, and that is that I I am now appreciating my individual purchases more these days. I think I am enjoying them to the fullest perhaps more than ever. (Does less collecting=happier collecting even if I'm spending the same amount of money as I was when I was buying less?) I'm certainly really enjoying what I already have.
Also, I have bought and do buy from multiple manufacturer's. If I'm having to pay more to get my fill, then I am going to buy the best. IMHO, K & C is the best overall, so I find some solace in that. If I have to pay $99.00 for a three figure set, then it's going to be by the best three figure set maker on the market. As I mentioned before, I will soon be reassessing my buying trends, and I, like many of us, have some tough decisions ahead. For instance, as much as I like it, I might be retiring from collecting the MK line altogether, which may or may not include selling off all of what I have acquired from the range. I'm also considering getting rid of entire arms of my collection that are not K & C. There was a when it almost made sense p) and I could branch out here and there, but w/ the way the direction prices are headed, every purchase must be carefully weighed; the margin of error has shrunk. So guess I will be thinning the herd along multiple fronts as it seems a necessary evil. I hope others too can "gameplan" around the financial restrictions that are now blanketing the hobby so we can all find away to stay involved and happy. Hopefully the manufacturer's remain engaged in such evaluations as we work toward a common goal, which includes trying to attract new collectors to keep the hobby alive and grow it.

Joe

Thanks Joe and I agree with you on many things. I will definitely be more selective in my future purchases due to cost. I will only buy "must haves". I am also finding myself being more appreciative of what I do buy (that's a good thing really). One thing I've been doing the last several months is that I've been buying almost all figures instead of AFV's. The $200 range for AFV's has just about put them out of reach for me unless I save up over a couple months (which I don't like doing) therefore I tend to be purchasing lower cost (not cheap though) items such as figures. I have lots of older K&C AFV's so I may just have to be content with those and just keep updating figures to make new dios. The last K&C AFV I purchased was the DUKW and I got it at it's original $115 price. But other than that, it's been slim pickings for me on the AFV front.

 

[aujj65]

I am not sure with K&C but I do know that others sell to dealears at 100% markup.

I'm guessing K&C dealers pay 60% of retail plus freight.

Dave

There was a bit of a boo-boo! on one of the JJD threads where the wholesale price had been posted as well as the retail...... $29 and $58 so perhaps a 100% markup for K&C isn't that far off.

Jeff

 

[IXEC]

Value...for the money,

I had this discussing with a friend of mine...we share the same interest in hobbies ... warplanes was the topic...and this as an example..

We all know, KC's line up and figures that are offered in this range and it's a good one....

My friend said this....

" Now that I see that Corgi is coming out with a 1/32 sand camo version of the Me-109 I won't be getting the KC version "

I asked him to explane, his view...knowing money is tight

" Well...the KC version only has a moving prop and that's it ... Look what you get on the Corgi version...."

" The Prop, Aileron's, Slats, Flaps, Elevatons, Rudder, and Tail Wheel all move..plus the Cockpit opens and the Cowlings can be removed to show the Engine and Machine Guns, the Landing Gear open & close and it comes with a display stand as well... And its made of Diecast, all for about $100. "

" Why would I pay more for a KC, Me-109. "

The point being, value...value......and more value, is key now....

 

[Jagdpanther]

I have also cut back, and trying more to focus...its getting harder to afford.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Guys,

Things are tough all over. People are losing their homes to foreclosures, and it costs nearly twice as much to fill up a car now than it did in 2000.

For those of us who have had to tighten our belts a bit, price increases in a hobby are just making me, for one, a lot more selective.

 

[gk5717]

One thing I have found out about me cutting back on purchases because of the increasing cost is "I can live with out it"
I have now developed this attitude relative to the monthly dispatches is how many items I will not buy. And guess what, I actually feel good knowing that I,m no longer being sucked into this money hole!
I cannot believe for one minute producers and dealers reading this thread are a bit worried.
In defense of manufacterors I really don,t think they are trying to gouge us collectors. Their cost rises, but if they want this hobby to remain viable to the common man something will have to be done to reduce prices.
Gary

 

[Rob]

I guess my answer is that whilst the Corgi ME is very nice it will always be a Corgi and not a K&C , if you are a dedicated collector of something then perhaps there is a feeling of something not really fitting in so to speak. For instance the same maybe said if you had a large Britains collection and added a K&C item. It all depends on the collector and his own way of collecting things. I have a 21st Century ME109 I used in a dio, and whilst it looks good crashed and beat up a bit, it wouldn't fit in with my K&C aircraft.

So even with price rises if Ican have a K&C aircraft rather than what for me (in my view) is a cheaper substitute then it will be K&C every time. Price is not everything, but as I say just my view

Rob

Value...for the money,

I had this discussing with a friend of mine...we share the same interest in hobbies ... warplanes was the topic...and this as an example..

We all know, KC's line up and figures that are offered in this range and it's a good one....

My friend said this....

" Now that I see that Corgi is coming out with a 1/32 sand camo version of the Me-109 I won't be getting the KC version "

I asked him to explane, his view...knowing money is tight


" Well...the KC version only has a moving prop and that's it ... Look what you get on the Corgi version...."

" The Prop, Aileron's, Slats, Flaps, Elevatons, Rudder, and Tail Wheel all move..plus the Cockpit opens and the Cowlings can be removed to show the Engine and Machine Guns, the Landing Gear open & close and it comes with a display stand as well... And its made of Diecast, all for about $100. "

" Why would I pay more for a KC, Me-109. "

The point being, value...value......and more value, is key now....

 

[Phantom Warrior]

The Corgi vs K&C aircraft is a similar argument as to why many collectors buy K&C AFVs instead of the much cheaper FOV or 21st Century AFVs, but they do.

Terry

 

[Rob]

The Corgi vs K&C aircraft is a similar argument as to why many collectors buy K&C AFVs instead of the much cheaper FOV or 21st Century AFVs, but they do.

Terry

This is true Terry. I could buy FOV AFV's , quite nice and pretty cheap, but I just don't think they'd go together in a seamless fashion.

Rob

 

[Phantom Warrior]

This is true Terry. I could buy FOV AFV's , quite nice and pretty cheap, but I just don't think they'd go together in a seamless fashion.

Rob

I meant instead of. Why buy from any particular company if there are cheaper and "better" alternatives. A 1/32 Corgi aircraft has more features, is mostly diecast, and is cheaper than K&C, TGM or Figarti aircraft so why buy the more expensive models. In fact, why buy the Corgi when you can buy the even cheaper and well detailed FOV and 21st Century models?

This seems to be an unanswerable question.

Terry

 

[jazzeum]

I really didn't want to say anything on this thread but it seems to have taken a life on its own, far beyond where Duke probably thought it would go.

This is an oft discussed topic and for everybody involved in this industry (manufacturer to dealer to collector) there is no easy answer.

I have been more selective almost to the point where I have cut my buying to nothing. The days of dabbling are over. I have also offloaded recent things that I purchased so I would not get stuck with them in the future. Rather get something than nothing.

Hopefully, these kinds of threads will disappear when the economy recovers. When will that happen no one really knows.

It should also be pointed that it is not just a K & C issue but an issue for every manufacturer.