Price Increases (2 Viewers)

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but as a strong free market advocate I really loathe unions.
Me too! :) I guess sometimes threatening to take business elsewhere is the only way for some collectors to express their frustration, sitting in the comfort of their home without taking it on the streets with a bat and/or a poster :D
Al
 
Me too! :) I guess sometimes threatening to take business elsewhere is the only way for some collectors to express their frustration, sitting in the comfort of their home without taking it on the streets with a bat and/or a poster :D
Al

Perhaps. But threatening is rarely ever effective. I know it doesnt work on me.

Actions, Actions, Actions. They are all that matter.
 
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did I miss a post where someone threatened to take business away?? I don't remember it. Collectors will take there wallets where they will get the best deal between price and quality.

Mitch
 
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Thank you Paul and I respect yours.

You make a very good point and indeed time will tell in the end. I too remember the days when I could buy stuff pretty much whenever I wanted, I am just a tad more choosy these days, but it does mean whatever I buy I know I really want it in my collection.

Rob


I respect your view, Rob...:)

After reading here that so many people, as well as I, are reshaping their buying habits, because of price increases, on anything really, it will cause people to seek better value for the money, or simply spend less.

Many here remember the $89.00 tanks in years past....and other have said they have enuff....and now, it seems fitting to say, it would take something of an extreme value for "todays collector" to spend their hard earned money.

So, I don't see that we are getting any real value along with the price increases...Imo.

Prices increases happen, so be it...but will people pay them? Time will tell...
 
I agree , this is an enjoyable thread so far let's not ruin it with politics. Apologies to Rutledge but I'm a union member , we arn't all bad!;):D

So will anyone really be giving up totally, it sounds to me more like lots willbe cutting back quite a bit, I imagine this is happening a lot in many hobbies in the current climate.

But I'm not ready to stop collecting yet, I will just take a little longer before each order...and check with my good lady of course;)

Rob
Ps Apolgies for errors in my writing but my wife is using the pc and I am using my iPhone and tend to make more mistakes with it when posting.


I respect your view, Rob...:)

After reading here that so many people, as well as I, are reshaping their buying habits, because of price increases, on anything really, it will cause people to seek better value for the money, or simply spend less.

Many here remember the $89.00 tanks in years past....and other have said they have enuff....and now, it seems fitting to say, it would take something of an extreme value for "todays collector" to spend their hard earned money.

So, I don't see that we are getting any real value along with the price increases...Imo.

Prices increases happen, so be it...but will people pay them? Time will tell...

did I miss a post where someone threatened to take business away?? I don't remember it. Collectors will take there wallets where they will get the best deal between price and quality.

Mitch
 
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This thread has shown we can mention other manufactures here without offending....this is really all about collecting and how we make adjustment to continue to do that....

That being said....for myself I have narrowed my collecting of TS and have sold off less interesting subjects....

Which brings me back to the value of things as I see them ( in the eye of the beholder ).....a case in point is the Figarti Locamotive, it's not cheap, but I went gaga over it and had to have it...Looking at it, one can see it should have cost alot more, but who would pay more? This is where Rick's price strategy put value in place with price. The profit to dealers on the BM-52 is smaller than their acustom to. Because of this some dealer are sending a message to Rich and not carrying it at all or marking it up another $100. Now some dealers will tell you that it's the shipping cost to them that makes selling the BM-52 untenable when in fact their selling it "out the back door" to some of their "better" customers who ask them to get it for them.

So my point here is, Rick was gotten me to part with alot of my money on the Train series with his adjusting the cost of the product to give the collector a chance at obtaining a "value" by giving the dealer less on the profit point.

I hope this case becomes a trend that will be adopted by more manufactures, as one solution to "price increases".
 
I had to choose between the grant and desert vickers
cannot buy both, so i went for the desert vickers
cause more affordable. That's how 2011 is going to be for me.
I'm sure i wont be the only one.
 
So my point here is, Rick was gotten me to part with alot of my money on the Train series with his adjusting the cost of the product to give the collector a chance at obtaining a "value" by giving the dealer less on the profit point.

I hope this case becomes a trend that will be adopted by more manufactures, as one solution to "price increases".

I don't, because then you will see no dealers. The manufacturers will all have to go to a direct sales model, and dealers will be toast.

Dave
 
My point is most people still buying toy soldiers are pretty financially sound, however the cost is getting so high that even if their income has not changed to the negative they can no longer justify $225 for a tank!
Gary


This is spot on ;)
 
I have a yearly budget which I spend on TS, paint, accessories,scenery etc.... This budget has unfortunately decreased because I am now retired. ( my pension is 2/3 of my former salary) so price increases for me automatically mean buying less figures ( less stuff in general)or from time to time it also means switching to a cheaper brand.( If I can buy an FoV Tiger Tank for € 75, why should I buy one for €225) Where a couple of years ago I bought some stuff every month, now there are months that I buy nothing at all. This is my reality and my personal situation.
guy:(
 
Yes there is a recession, but I think it's effect is to stop people directly affected by it to simply stop buying TS, not just cut back. I believe the more serious problem for the TS industry is the very rapid doubling of prices in just a few years. It's not only the speed of the increase and the size of the increase but the overall cost of a set today which is making people really look at what they are buying. What leads me to believe this, is that very few collectors have said they will stop buying entirely. Not many have said they will reduce total spending. But a great many have said they will spend the same money but will be able to afford fewer sets and be more selective.

I think the real question is what will the effect be on manufacturer and dealer profits in 2011 if much fewer sets are sold for the same dollar volume of sales that took place in 2009 or 2010?

Terry
 
Value is a subjective call for each individual. Some people see good value in a German engineered car, in the latest and greatest phone technology, or in tailored clothing. Others see no value whatsoever in these things.

There is no magic. Manufacturers compete in different ways but are held to the same basic rules. In a competitive environment they choose to serve whatever market segment generates the best profits for their particular business. For some this could mean selling at lower price points but in higher quantities (the "mass market"). Others may go in a different direction, higher price points to a more selective audience. Either/both are legitimate strategies.

K&C sits in the middle. It is not the cheapest, nor the most expensive. That can be a dangerous place to be. They are subject to being squeezed by competition from both sides. Brand image/loyalty, superior customer/supplier relationships, sound financials, having strong distributors, all of these things come into play, beyond "just" product offerings.

They have a target on themselves by being the number one player. Everybody wants a shot at number one. New or revitalized competitors will (and do) attempt to exploit even the most minor weaknesses for their own advantage. "Niche" players enter and steal customers. Free markets arent pretty :)

The small size of the industry and the high demand elasticity of toy soldiers places additional pressures. Demand can fluctuate wildly with global economic conditions. As speculators sense lower profit potential they leave and liquidity dries up. Long time collectors can be forced to abandon non-essential purchases. New collectors are not created. Meanwhile the middle market can see its customers sucked away by cheaper providers on one end and high end producers on the other.

If all this occurs while raw material prices and labor costs increase, even as currency exchange rates move in unfavorable directions, a business can be caught in a wicked downward spiral.

K&C is a very well run company and very likely can adapt to whatever challenges it faces. This may mean radical changes to how it does business in the future. Only Andy and Co know. Im just speculating. The bottom line for me is that the K&C team has proven very adept and to be sound business managers. If higher prices are issued, no doubt its something that couldnt be avoided.

Individuals making threats about how their purchase behavior will change is really pointless. Talk, as they say, is cheap. (no pun intended) Actions are everything. The market will dictate what they must do. If price reductions are required, then something else will have to give. Simple.

This thread has shown we can mention other manufactures here without offending....this is really all about collecting and how we make adjustment to continue to do that....

That being said....for myself I have narrowed my collecting of TS and have sold off less interesting subjects....

Which brings me back to the value of things as I see them ( in the eye of the beholder ).....a case in point is the Figarti Locamotive, it's not cheap, but I went gaga over it and had to have it...Looking at it, one can see it should have cost alot more, but who would pay more? This is where Rick's price strategy put value in place with price. The profit to dealers on the BM-52 is smaller than their acustom to. Because of this some dealer are sending a message to Rich and not carrying it at all or marking it up another $100. Now some dealers will tell you that it's the shipping cost to them that makes selling the BM-52 untenable when in fact their selling it "out the back door" to some of their "better" customers who ask them to get it for them.

So my point here is, Rick was gotten me to part with alot of my money on the Train series with his adjusting the cost of the product to give the collector a chance at obtaining a "value" by giving the dealer less on the profit point.

I hope this case becomes a trend that will be adopted by more manufactures, as one solution to "price increases".

Very well said Gentlemen, And Ixec I can see the attraction with The Figarti Rail road.
 
you all have made very good points. some things that have been missed are that some people are also out of room. also there are less sales on ebay and at cheaper prices. this is all a little depressing. i have considered dumping it all except my train and anzio annie. like brad said get something while you can. i have also considered going back to 20mm. you can display more, its cheaper and you can create and paint your own.if somebody was to sell me the remegan bridge model in 20mm it might put me over the edge.but actually i think that kc can really not raise their prices from here. and i have spent alot of money month in and month out for 14 yrs. add to that the splurging i have done at the chicago shows. i know alot of you collectors and manufactures and for all of us i hope things get straightened out for the better. i just know deep down that things have reached their peak. to go higher from here would do irrevesable harm
 
I don't, because then you will see no dealers. The manufacturers will all have to go to a direct sales model, and dealers will be toast.

Dave

Absolutely. If I HAD to make a bet on where the industry will ultimately go, this would be it. That is, that the Direct Sold model, ala FL, would become the preferred distribution method for most manufacturers. That, or through some sort of single giant distributor like an Amazon who sells lots of things other than toy soldiers.

I also do not see any need to bring into this discussion Iran a silly move towards politics which will unecessarily raise reaction and, guess what, the thread will be closed down. Mitch

My mention of Iran was not at all political. It was just a means of illustrating how threats rarely change behavior, no matter from whence they come or to whom they are delivered. :D

Very well said Gentlemen

Gracias, sir.
 
without a strong dealer network kc wouldn't be where it is today. a manufacturer needs salesmanship.10 yrs ago FORD tried an experiment. they bought out all the car dealers in indianapolis and also all dealers in utah. they were going to go with factory owned stores and service centers. they failed and gave out franchises again. there is absolutely a place for good dealers. they develop the relationships needed to sell these special toys and service and even coddle some of the customers that need it. it is nice to have a toy soldier community and i think that has added to the level of quality and number of quality manufactures. ithink andy knows all this and hopefully he can navigate thru this difficult period
 
Marco55...

Well said
Mitch
 
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Hi Guys,
All very interesting but for another perspective read the thread on Next K&C purchase.
Regards
Brett


Thing is in this day and age you have to try and keep an eye on the positive. I find whenever I turn on the news I am bombarded with the world economy crisis,unemployment woes, gruesome murders and the threat of terrorism. For me this hobby is an escape from all that, its something I can enthuse about, share with friends and take great enjoyment from. So whilst of course I don't want to see prices rise I can't let it stop me enjoying my hobby, yes I will perhaps alter the course of my collecting and perhaps buy fewer items if need be, but I won't stop collecting, because despite price rises its still great fun:) Just my opinion of course.

Rob
 
Thing is in this day and age you have to try and keep an eye on the positive. I find whenever I turn on the news I am bombarded with the world economy crisis,unemployment woes, gruesome murders and the threat of terrorism. For me this hobby is an escape from all that, its something I can enthuse about, share with friends and take great enjoyment from. So whilst of course I don't want to see prices rise I can't let it stop me enjoying my hobby, yes I will perhaps alter the course of my collecting and perhaps buy fewer items if need be, but I won't stop collecting, because despite price rises its still great fun:) Just my opinion of course.

Rob
Well said Rob ;)
 
Rob...

I don't think anyone on here thinks other wise and thats probably why threads like this keep coming back with great regularity. Everyone does want a release from the daily grind and, if this happens to be your way of releasing then, its obvious its going to be a dissapointment if you are unable to buy the things that give you the release, because of very high price increases over a short period of time.

Its also obvious that then people who would normally enjoy doing what you say about the hobby and everything that goes with it see prices etc going up that they will feel frustrated about it and do as they have talk about their concerns.

Its all seemed to come at once where price increases and the Broken flak and 262 have taken everyones attention over other things which are normally discussed. for me its all part of the enjoyment even the negatives as some interesting discussions and opinions come from them often, more so than when talking about a nice release
Mitch
 
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