Production cutbacks (3 Viewers)

[Vezzolf]

Regarding the "panic" purchase notion,
I dropped off the KC WW2 radar awhile ago as I got tired of the retirements and the range simply got tooooo big for me to handle. There just isn't anything in the KC catalog that is that amazing that I gotta have it or die.

Good point...Increased Prices for the same level of detail.... also the "retired products" selling strategy.... creating pressure to hurry on my purchases...All Big Turn-offs for me.....There isn't anything I absolutely must have....Most of us already have sizeable collections....If we didn't buy another thing we would all be OK:wink2:

 

[nmrocks]

Trust me when I say this, this "announcement" - official or otherwise, is a non event for me. (So why do I keep discussing it then?? Good question {sm3}{sm4})

@NMRocks- Ray, I do respect you very much as I appreciate your candor on your posts. I know you aren't a johnny come lately to KC like a lot of guys are. I know we can recall the days when KC dispatches were quarterly and retirements were very slow. I know, things have changed but KC took pride in itself as a company as being able to produce toy soldiers for collectors on a workingman's budget. I'm not so sure they are still shooting for that same demographic these days. And yes, while there is some sticker shock with other companies products, the rate of releases make is realistically possible to assimilate a sizeable collection while spending less money over the course of time- simple fact is, higher prices but less selection or depth does appeal to a growing number of collectors. As does lower priced, wide open selection. Collector's can make their choices.

Chris,
I'm with you, this announcement is a reflection of the world economic state and has ZERO effect on my collecting habits. AHHH the good old days! yes, the innocence and newness of the K&C products, yes i do miss those days, but so what? I'm certainly not immune to the realities of life and I have scaled back my collection considerably and narrowed my focus to lines and lines within lines. but then again I was never a "completest" and never felt anything but "Lust" for a new release as my motivation. Pricing has become an issue, no doubt but it's because of the economy not greed that things have changed. It's like getting mad at someone because that developed cancer! We all have to adjust to changing circumstances to survive, simple as that, Andy's mistake is his openess and honesty in speaking to us as he would to any friend about the realities of circumstance. people reading all this nefarious motivations and board room manipultaions into this are really reaching to find something interesting to say. Since you can't say anything controversial about politics, current events, your sex life, or other members on the forum these pent up emotions errupt in the most unwarranted places.^&grin
Ray

 

[Rutledge]

... also the "retired products" selling strategy.... creating pressure to hurry on my purchases...All Big Turn-offs for me.....There isn't anything I absolutely must have....Most of us already have sizeable collections....If we didn't buy another thing we would all be OK:wink2:

Its quite humorous to me how some take offense or object to K&C's "retirement strategy". Of course, I dont know that it is a strategy, per se, as they could just view it as good customer communication. Frankly, though, it would surprise me more if it wasnt a strategy.

The idea of scarcity to create customer urgency is fundamental and one that pretty much EVERY (well run) BUSINESS in the world uses at one point or another. Its why car companies create new models every year and phase out the old. Its why coupons have expiration dates. Its why companies use PROMOTIONS. Its why real estate/house builders tell you to buy now before all their inventory is gone (or at least they used to ) Its why the jewelry sellers on QVC say you better call now. Its why stock brokers tell you to buy a stock today because tomorrow it wont be available at today's price.

I mean seriously, does everyone here realize K&C is a BUSINESS? If running promotions or new pricing strategies are all it takes to turn people off of a business, it must be hard for to get through the day without an aneurism.....^&grin

 

[Mitch]

Terry..

Was not saying you were attacking anyone per se apologies should it have come across like that. I am just saying that it has the potential when the hobby is being discussed to become easy for some to say that if your not onboard and accept every thing that comes from K&C that somehow one is anti K&C which, is not the case and stupid IMO.l posts in this thread have either said this openly or, implied it. One can still like the products etc but, disagree about design, paint schemes, or the announcements etc without having an issue other than just not agreeing.
Mitch

I made no attack on anyone. All I said was K&C be commended for recognizing the changes in the market and taking action in their best interests and the best interests of the collectors. Rather than resort to gimmicks and coercion to spur demand and likely alienate collectors, they cut production. In the past, manufacturers in other collectables markets went the other way (Beenie babies, baseball cards), alienated collectors and brought about a total collapse of their market.

Terry

 

[Peter Reuss]

The assumption seems to be that K&C is cutting production because they don't have enough sales. I just reread Andy's Dispatch, and that was not the reason given. K&C has limited production capacity, so they can either produce more of fewer items...or fewer of more items. They chose to go with variety rather than depth.

To quote from the Dispatch:
The choice for us was quite clear… either reduce the overall quantities of all of our existing product ranges or reduce the number of new and fresh releases which collectors and dealers eagerly look forward to every month

 

[uksubs]

Well I've got no problem with it & can see why K&C are doing it as a lot of stuff is not moving of the shelf & a lot of stuff is finding it way on ebay where people are selling collection they no longer want witch is selling below RRP {sm2}

 

[Rob]

What will be interesting to see is how the retirements are spread across the different ranges, I know as the biggest seller WW2 will take a big hit , but I wonder where else will see retirements?. Also I wonder what sort of lifespan a new product will have?. For instance the RAF range hasn't had a hit yet, (oops forgot Nissen hut) if I was you guys I'd grab that RAF sports car while you can, I got it in London and it's just superb{bravo}}{bravo}}.

Rob

 

[HistoryfortheAges]

Well, it's obvious to me that the collector market has shrunk considerably. The K&C strategy is to cater to the remaining collectors with new releases so they can continue to sell to this smaller collector base on a regular basis. It's a realistic business decision in these times of tight customer budgets and rising production costs. I am sure all of us including K&C and other manufacturers would like to see the old times come back again. Don't know when that will happen...

 

[wayne556517]

No one is taking me seriously Andy is retiring "Take the money and run" so next months retirement is King@Country.............{sm4}^&grin

 

[marksable]

The cutbacks will probably affect my buying habits, as have the price increases and my general anxiety about the economy/financial limits.

But as much as I'd like to own everything, I trust that these were all necessary decisions by Andy for K&C and don't see anything sinister here at all.

If the market is indeed shrinking, I'd rather see TS manufacturers try to expand the hobby rather than increase prices and scarcity, but that's another topic which I've already spoken about ad nauseum.

As far as K&C's bad press and Andy leaving the board, I don't think it's entirely fair to blame the critical voices on this board.

Yes, there are naysayers in any hobby, and some people may have crossed a line or two. But the majority of posters here write positive things about K&C, and of those who have complaints the majority post in a civil manner.

I think the production cutbacks were an example of how to handle things, with Andy speaking directly to us in an honest way.

On the other hand, I feel some other matters were not handled quite so well. For me, the ME-262 tailsitter problem comes to mind. Put aside what was known or not known about the problem when the item was sold. It would have been a very simple thing for Andy or someone at K&C to admit there were an issue with a number of the planes and apologize, but to my knowledge no one has yet to do so (if I'm wrong, I apologize). That's left a bad taste in some people's mouths that I don't think can be blamed on "snipers".

I get Andy not wanting to get caught up in the drama. I too create things for a living in a shrinking industry and the internet is full of criticism. If it starts to take away from the time you use to actually do the work, it's probably not a bad idea to step away. But I've also learned to have a thick skin, and that selling myself and interacting with fans is something necessary for my career.

It's not just collectors or forum members that lose out by not having Andy on the site. The accessibility of people like Andy, Richard Walker, Rick from Figarti etc. were part of what helped me get into this hobby not all that long ago. That personal touch has often made the decision between me making a purchase or not.

Again, if the industry is contracting as some have suggested, then I can't see how it helps K&C or any other manufacturer to have their ambassador leave at the same time prices are going up. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Your right Mark, some can be reactionary. I think product will still be available, maybe not for 3 or 4 years but I doubt there will be many sellouts before release type situations. As for Andy not coming on the forum... well I advised that years ago, people with personal grudges and resentments are constantly sniping at him with poorly, thinly vealed attacks, the forum gets what it deserves....What used to feel like a brotherhood of those privilaged to have a personal relationship with the actual makers of the product we love now looks more like Sniper Alley.
Ray

 

[Eazy]

The assumption seems to be that K&C is cutting production because they don't have enough sales. I just reread Andy's Dispatch, and that was not the reason given. K&C has limited production capacity, so they can either produce more of fewer items...or fewer of more items. They chose to go with variety rather than depth.

To quote from the Dispatch:
The choice for us was quite clear… either reduce the overall quantities of all of our existing product ranges or reduce the number of new and fresh releases which collectors and dealers eagerly look forward to every month

Not sure i agree. If you could sell a larger amount then you would find a way to increase your production. Surely common sense in the business world wouldnt say "OK i can sell 1000 of these Germans but i'm gonna cut back and sell 500"

I kind of see myself as a pretty average customer. Have a regular job, nothing special, disposable income has shrunk, 2 young daughters, already amassed a pretty large WW2 collection before the prices went crazy.
I personally went for a 4 month period from Dec to end of March without buying anything new from K&C. That would have been unthinkable for me previously.
Now there's nothing left that i have a burning desire for so my next purchases might not be until some new D-Day Brits or Market Garden fgures come out.
If that's kind of reflected in a number of other average collectors then that must have an impact on things.

 

[ostrein]

... K&C has limited production capacity, so they can either produce more of fewer items...or fewer of more items. They chose to go with variety rather than depth.

To quote from the Dispatch:
The choice for us was quite clear… either reduce the overall quantities of all of our existing product ranges or reduce the number of new and fresh releases which collectors and dealers eagerly look forward to every month

Well, for being new to this hobby I don't have a problem with the decission to cutback on production but continue with new releases every month.
With one exception: Please have the key figures longer available!
Example: I got interested in this hobby when I saw a picture of K&C's ancient egypt (no, not only the dancing girls !!!). When you think of ancient Egypt what comes to mind first are the Pyramids, the Pharaos, Cleopatra and the builders of the Pyramids.
It took me some time to find one Cleopatra set. The Spinx and all the other statues/buildings are very hard to find and people pay very high prices on eBay. I haven't been able yet to get any of them - in my budget range.
I wouldn't start collecting the Ancient Egypt line if I can only have a Market scene or wedding guest. They're nice but not really attractive enough to start collecting this line.

Like with many other hobbies (ie model railway) you need to attract new collectors to keep it alive. For this you need IMO key figures of each line (for example Cleopatra for AE, General Lee, Hitler, Napoleon, Buildings for a LAH display, etc) available for as long as possible (infinitive !?).

Production cutbacks in general is OK, but please keep an eye on new potential collectors as well by having an interesting entrance point available.

Oliver

 

[jules118]

The cutbacks will probably affect my buying habits, as have the price increases and my general anxiety about the economy/financial limits.

But as much as I'd like to own everything, I trust that these were all necessary decisions by Andy for K&C and don't see anything sinister here at all.

If the market is indeed shrinking, I'd rather see TS manufacturers try to expand the hobby rather than increase prices and scarcity, but that's another topic which I've already spoken about ad nauseum.

As far as K&C's bad press and Andy leaving the board, I don't think it's entirely fair to blame the critical voices on this board.

Yes, there are naysayers in any hobby, and some people may have crossed a line or two. But the majority of posters here write positive things about K&C, and of those who have complaints the majority post in a civil manner.

I think the production cutbacks were an example of how to handle things, with Andy speaking directly to us in an honest way.

On the other hand, I feel some other matters were not handled quite so well. For me, the ME-262 tailsitter problem comes to mind. Put aside what was known or not known about the problem when the item was sold. It would have been a very simple thing for Andy or someone at K&C to admit there were an issue with a number of the planes and apologize, but to my knowledge no one has yet to do so (if I'm wrong, I apologize). That's left a bad taste in some people's mouths that I don't think can be blamed on "snipers".

I get Andy not wanting to get caught up in the drama. I too create things for a living in a shrinking industry and the internet is full of criticism. If it starts to take away from the time you use to actually do the work, it's probably not a bad idea to step away. But I've also learned to have a thick skin, and that selling myself and interacting with fans is something necessary for my career.

It's not just collectors or forum members that lose out by not having Andy on the site. The accessibility of people like Andy, Richard Walker, Rick from Figarti etc. were part of what helped me get into this hobby not all that long ago. That personal touch has often made the decision between me making a purchase or not.

Again, if the industry is contracting as some have suggested, then I can't see how it helps K&C or any other manufacturer to have their ambassador leave at the same time prices are going up. Just my thoughts on the matter.

I agree. I became a much more enthusiastic K&C SOHK collector after discovering this forum and viewing the posts where Andy was actually interacting with his market. In today's world (and not being aware of what other manufacturers did) I found this to be a very refreshing change. Andy's presence here combined with some truly excellent products and great customer service really got me into K&C in a big way.

Yes, there are/were some snipers who seemed to ready to complain about everything, just as there are some sycophants who view any comment or criticism (no matter how justified) as an outright attack on everything K&C, past, present and future. But, as Andy is an ex bootneck I figured he'd have thick enough skin to roll with the punches and it appeared (to me) that he gave as good as he got.

And I totally get your point about it being unfortunate that the main man for the company moved away from the forum when his voice is probably needed the most. It would probably end a lot of the idle speculation that currently occurs. My commitment to K&C started to dwindle when repeated comments or questions were left unanswered or unfulfilled whilst at the same time others were not. Don't get me wrong, I still think that it's a fantastic product and a great company but after seeing almost no releases for SOHK and no direct answers to my questions I started to drift away. There are still a few K&C sets from various series that I'd like and no doubt there will be more in the future, but I no longer feel that I have any sort of 'personal' relationship with the company and as a result no pressing need through desire or loyalty or whatever to buy them straight away.

if they're still around when I am ready to buy them, that will be good. If already retired and unavailable, well life goes on, I've realized that even amongst my 'pleasures', they're things that I can quite easily live without.

 

[King & Country]

Hi Treefroggers,

Well it seems that whatever my brother says… some folks always know better. However detailed his explanation is… it’s never good enough or does not correspond with their particular perceptions and/ or personal opinions.

One thing I do know for sure is that many of these “Jeremiahs” have never run a successful company themselves but love to tell others how they should run theirs!

Gordon C. Neilson

 

[marco55]

Hi Treefroggers,

Well it seems that whatever my brother says… some folks always know better. However detailed his explanation is… it’s never good enough or does not correspond with their particular perceptions and/ or personal opinions.

One thing I do know for sure is that many of these “Jeremiahs” have never run a successful company themselves but love to tell others how they should run theirs!

Gordon C. Neilson

Well this should spice things up.LOOK OUT!{sm3}{eek3}
Mark

 

[jazzeum]

Hi Treefroggers,

Well it seems that whatever my brother says… some folks always know better. However detailed his explanation is… it’s never good enough or does not correspond with their particular perceptions and/ or personal opinions.

One thing I do know for sure is that many of these “Jeremiahs” have never run a successful company themselves but love to tell others how they should run theirs!

Gordon C. Neilson

Jeremiah was a bullfrog ^&cool I'll stop there. None of you want to hear me sing. Trust me!

 

[lancer]

Jeremiah was a bullfrog ^&cool I'll stop there. None of you want to hear me sing. Trust me!

Pretty sure the reference was to the Robert Redford movie "Jeremiah Johnson". -- Al

 

[jules118]

Hope that in light of my posts I am not being pigeonholed as one of these "Jeremiahs" because I'd like to think that I take a nuanced and balanced outlook. Despite my recent disappointments I am still a big fan of K&C. But I believe in trying to understand both sides POV rather than subscribing to the George W, you're either with us or against us B&W view of the world.

But to be honest I don't know because all too often this place seems to be where contrary opinions are not considered but dismissed out of hand, with the inference that they are coming from people who are not only wrong, but completely unqualified to hold any such an opinion. And that seems to occur on both sides of the debates here which is sad. Passion is one thing, blind ignorance is another.

Just a general observation.

 

[Rob]

Hope that in light of my posts I am not being pigeonholed as one of these "Jeremiahs" because I'd like to think that I take a nuanced and balanced outlook. Despite my recent disappointments I am still a big fan of K&C. But I believe in trying to understand both sides POV rather than subscribing to the George W, you're either with us or against us B&W view of the world.

But to be honest I don't know because all too often this place seems to be where contrary opinions are not considered but dismissed out of hand, with the inference that they are coming from people who are not only wrong, but completely unqualified to hold any such an opinion. And that seems to occur on both sides of the debates here which is sad. Passion is one thing, blind ignorance is another.

Just a general observation.

Trouble is Jules it swings both ways, some folk dismiss everything Andy says as some sort of cynical marketing ploy, and blame him for all ill's including the recent dealer issue, some folk should consider there are two sides to everything. Also we have people on here who post 99.9% negative comments some might say are designed to wind people up. How and where do we draw the line between constant and frankly tedious digs and genuine open and balanced conversation that we all want to see????.Its not an easy thing to balance.

Cheers
Rob

 

[breslau]

A recurring theme on this thread has been about criticism of K&C and the agenda of some to seemingly be highly critical of anything K&C might be doing. I know I have highlighted very early concerns on the ME262 along with many others. But my concerns were about quality control on a single production run.

I now explore most of the forum (rather than just K&C threads) and as a relatively new member, I'd make the observation that there are very few critical comments (that I've found) on other matte by manufacturere threads. Strong often generalised criticism by collectors does seem very unique to the K&C thread. This intrigues me.

Though I happily collect other TS company products, K&C makes my collecting experience enjoyable, exciting, rewarding and I think they set the TS industry standard. Genuine criticism on issues is fine and acceptable to me but some collectors do seem fixated in their attacks on K&C.

Just my observations and I do respect the views and time taken by all members to post comments provided remarks are respectful.