show figures (1 Viewer)

[kogu]

I Don't have a Dog...............I Sell On E-Bay.............Thank Goodness we live in a FREE society.

Rain is Wet,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Snow is Cold..................Show Figures are...................Show Figures

Nothing wrong with buying or getting Show Figures and selling them.

What gives a bad taste to the subject, is announcing a new Show Figure, like at the recent Texas Show, telling the fellow forum members what figure it is and that it will be given out to collectors the next morning after 10:00am, and in the same time posting four or more of them on ebay at totally inflated prices.
That is before they were even given out to anyone per announcement :wink2:

Doesn't feel right, does it?

Konrad

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Nothing wrong with buying or getting Show Figures and selling them.

What gives a bad taste to the subject, is announcing a new Show Figure, like at the recent Texas Show, telling the fellow forum members what figure it is and that it will be given out to collectors the next morning after 10:00am, and in the same time posting four or more of them on ebay at totally inflated prices.
That is before they were even given out to anyone per announcement :wink2:

Doesn't feel right, does it?

Konrad

Next Texas show I will be sure not to mention any info,this way it keeps everything simple. Want to know details.....come to the show.
By the way it should be even better than ever in 2013 :smile2:

 

[The Military Workshop]

PA44,
You said :
"If people are really true collectors and hobbyists then they would spend more time on the hobby and less time "Worrying What Other People Are Doing"

so it does seem strange that you have spent a lot of posts recently commenting upon repaints (or to be more accurate I think we can safely say one particular repainter).

In general it seems there have been a few threads recently aimed at the repaint / speculator debate. Mitch mentioned a Poll about show figures. Rather than beating around the bush I think the more obvious poll is who is less popular in the hobby world, the repainter or the speculator ? I think the result would be fairly obvious. Based on recent evidence somebody has not yet woken up to this.

Regards
Brett

 

[Mitch]

Gary...

As Konrad stated its not at all the fact of selling nothing wrong that and, it would be strange to want not to make a profit. its filling people with the proverbial brown stuff whilst trying to say you are something else. Just say I have all of these and I am going to sell them at least people have the option to then know where your coming from. The posts are on the forum as public record for all the bizzarre stories that have been stated they are used to dupe people and thats the real issue.

If you want to buy 10 figarti items or many many bell figures just get on with it but, don't expect to not be called when you do the underhand sales techniques on a forum like this.

Brad and a few others have mentioned selling show figures not an issue with that as they say I have this figure or figures from the show and, its going to be sold at X. Nothing underhand or deceptive about that a collector can then decide to buy or not. so, unscrupulous was not aimed at the vast vast majority of collectors who sell things as there is no issue in the actual selling or, making large sums if one can. Its down to the manner in which one does it.
Mitch

Hey Mitch when you posted relative to show figures or rarer figures you stated quote "fleeced by the unscrupulous".
Does that mean if I have a rare figure either by getting it at a show or any other legal means, I would be "unscrupulous" if when I sold it I would get the most money I could.
Am I supposed to just be a nice fellow and not realize a profit if there is one to be made? All I would do with the extra money is pour it back into the hobby.
As been said oh so many times, no one has a gun to somebodys head forcing them to buy.
Gary

 

[OzDigger]

Guys...

We all know that there are some decent figures presented at shows from K&C and a few others. These are nice items meant to give the collector a little something special as a freebie or, to purchase on their visit.

What I would like to know is do people agree or not that perhaps K&C could sell these later from their store or from other dealers around the world in a run to collectors? if not, should they ensure that attendee's only get one figure either as a gift or, are allowed to buy only one. At least it would help stop these wonderful people who then sell them on for as much as they can. although I know it would not stop them completely it would curtail their actions.

I would think this would be a good idea. firstly, it would certainly sell after seeing some of the figures and it would also stop the speculators from selling at really ridiculous prices that you see either before the show has actually ended or, a few months later for over $100 per figure.

As the Chicago show draws close and show figures presumably will be released I know that I would rather give the manufacturer or a dealer the money than speculators who care little about the hobby or the collectors in it.

It just seems the companies could make a decent profit sell desirable figures at a fair price to collectors and, assist in reducing the speculative nature that a few plague our hobby with. It seems a win win situation to me.
Mitch

I do NOT agree. Clearly "Show Figures" are an enticement to get more people to Toy Soldier events and each attendee receives ONE figure. What happens after that is entirely up to the people who wish to sell (or swap) any figure(s) they obtain from said attendees.

 

[The Military Workshop]

I do NOT agree. Clearly "Show Figures" are an enticement to get more people to Toy Soldier events and each attendee receives ONE figure. What happens after that is entirely up to the people who wish to sell (or swap) any figure(s) they obtain from said attendees.

Oz,
A lot depends upon what happens. At the Brisbane K&C dinners you have been to the most special figures a collector has been able to get would be two. This is based on a husband and wife both getting the same figure although at the Brisbane dinners most females have received a female figure (ie. Chinese lady musician). There would be nothing to stop somebody going around the room buying up figures on the spot and then selling on Ebay for whatever price they could get. I have sold a few of the dinner figures on Ebay for collectors using the proceeds to buy other items but generally most seem to keep the figures and this is what makes them rarer and more valuable on Ebay. For those who have not attended a Brisbane event the three course meal costs $40 and includes the free figures which are provided by K&C. Cant remember the exact number but over the past three years there would have been say 165 ish given out. Very few of those have been sold via Ebay as far as I am aware.

Obviously the Texas Show figure is handled in a different way to most other events and enables the multiple purchase of the figure.

Regards
Brett

 

[Mitch]

I am not surprised really. But, what is it you do not agree with? Not every show has figures like this and, people still turn up to them in number. The post clearly states that I would favour a small number of figures released by manufacturers post show. This would allow the loyal customers Brad mentioned to benefit from their loyalty who cannot attend shows and, diminish the individuals who horde items, create an artificial panic, (with through stories that could begin with ''once upon a time'') and inflate prices.

What is there to not agree with? Unless, you are content with certain people who don't really do much for the good of the hobby to continue with practices the vast majority in discussion openly and privately dislike.
Mitch

I do NOT agree. Clearly "Show Figures" are an enticement to get more people to Toy Soldier events and each attendee receives ONE figure. What happens after that is entirely up to the people who wish to sell (or swap) any figure(s) they obtain from said attendees.

 

[jazzeum]

Not that it's causing me any angst but you're using my point in a way I never intended. The figure is to reward the customers who attend the show not customers in general. They get rewarded through an incentive program, e.g., rivet rewards.

 

[jazzeum]

Finishing up -- had to move the car -- but some are trying to turn this thread into a debate --and let's not beat about the bush -- about Panzer Ace and his selling tactics on ebay. Most of us decry them -- what with PA and his 10 Stukas (I've lost count) -- but I'm not sure this thread is the place for it unless that was the intent all along.

 

[uksubs]

Finishing up -- had to move the car -- but some are trying to turn this thread into a debate --and let's not beat about the bush -- about Panzer Ace and his selling tactics on ebay. Most of us decry them -- what with PA and his 10 Stukas (I've lost count) -- but I'm not sure this thread is the place for it unless that was the intent all along.

Why would someone buy Ten Stuka that what I would like to know and do we know it Pa44 100% selling at a inflated price on ebay?

 

[OzDigger]

Oz,
A lot depends upon what happens. At the Brisbane K&C dinners you have been to the most special figures a collector has been able to get would be two. This is based on a husband and wife both getting the same figure although at the Brisbane dinners most females have received a female figure (ie. Chinese lady musician). There would be nothing to stop somebody going around the room buying up figures on the spot and then selling on Ebay for whatever price they could get. I have sold a few of the dinner figures on Ebay for collectors using the proceeds to buy other items but generally most seem to keep the figures and this is what makes them rarer and more valuable on Ebay. For those who have not attended a Brisbane event the three course meal costs $40 and includes the free figures which are provided by K&C. Cant remember the exact number but over the past three years there would have been say 165 ish given out. Very few of those have been sold via Ebay as far as I am aware.

Obviously the Texas Show figure is handled in a different way to most other events and enables the multiple purchase of the figure.

Regards
Brett

I based my opinion on my experience at the Brisbane K & C diners and on what I have read on the forum etc about overseas events and it appeared to me that One figure was given to each attendee at such events. For example at your last Brisbane K & C diner a family of Three at my table received Three figures which is more than the Two figure 'maximum' that you alluded to. However if people are able to obtain show figures by other means, who really cares, not me that's for sure as most show figures I have received over the years are of little interest to me as I only collect a few different ranges and I intend to swap/sell most of my show figures at some stage.

 

[Mitch]

My main point was to raise a simple question about the varied show figures that are available and, whether manufacturers should make a limited number available post shows and, if anyone agreed. There were as I stated many reasons why I thought this was a benefit over it being a negative.

It was not raised with any intent against one or more persons but, when they are in need of responding in what I saw as quite negative and entirely innapropriate then as many have said this is an open forum for debate. It seems more strange that some just can't either keep away from these threads or, wish to start ones themselves.

I would as I mentioned earlier just have liked opinions from members as to whether figures available would be an interest or not. Thats why I thought it was appropriate to ask for it to be moved as it covered more than just K&C
Mitch

QUOTE=jazzeum;520235]Finishing up -- had to move the car -- but some are trying to turn this thread into a debate --and let's not beat about the bush -- about Panzer Ace and his selling tactics on ebay. Most of us decry them -- what with PA and his 10 Stukas (I've lost count) -- but I'm not sure this thread is the place for it unless that was the intent all along.[/QUOTE]

 

[OzDigger]

I am not surprised really. But, what is it you do not agree with? Not every show has figures like this and, people still turn up to them in number. The post clearly states that I would favour a small number of figures released by manufacturers post show. This would allow the loyal customers Brad mentioned to benefit from their loyalty who cannot attend shows and, diminish the individuals who horde items, create an artificial panic, (with through stories that could begin with ''once upon a time'') and inflate prices.

What is there to not agree with? Unless, you are content with certain people who don't really do much for the good of the hobby to continue with practices the vast majority in discussion openly and privately dislike.
Mitch

I suspect you are "not surprised" because you feel I am stating a different opinion to yours purely because you think I am against you in your current forum fight with PA1944/Wayne. Suffice to say I don't collect Show Figures, Repainted Models or Figarti Models so I don't care much about what happens in either case, but as usual I do have an opinion, albeit as a fence sitter rather than a stakeholder.

I said No to your suggestion that Show Figures should be available to collectors that do not attend the show because they are "Show Figures", pure and simple. Clearly if you could get such figures post show from dealers they would no longer be Show Figures and of little interest to people that collect "Show Figures". The same applies to K & C Club Figures, I believe you have to be a club member to get one of these. Imo it defeats the purpose if you could get such figures direct from dealers.

 

[Mitch]

Matt...

Contrary to that view I don't really care if someone agrees with me or not. As is always the case with some its an incorrect view that what I say must be taken as right. I have never said on here to anyone I am right and you are wrong. Had it said to me but, never the other way.

I have no argument with anyone the thread simply asked (until others just could not resist being foolish) whether it was a good idea or not. Not many actually answered that part of the question so, the thread content went in other directions.

As for K&C club figures that was part of my thinking as yes, you have to be a member but, you can now buy multiples of these figures and are not restricted to one or two. This did stop a lot of the high prices that were charged on the internet for these figures when K&C did this. I just wondered aloud whether it was worth doing for with figures elsewhere. I would wonder just how many people onlu collect show figures alone and nothing else but, thats another topic.

We just don't agree with each others stance on this subject. no biggy!! just like we don't see eye to eye on the impact of the battle of britain as being a very very important defeat to the german war machine!!
Mitch

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Since some people dwell on my life and personal actions, as I have been personally identified here in this thread, let's just set the record straight here !!!!
No lies, fabrication, or twisting of events..................Fair Enough ?????? If so then here we go !

TEXAS SHOW FIGURES: These were made to be exclusively available at the show at $45.00 each tax included with no purchase limit given. So if someone wanted to take
a risk and buy 10 at $450.00 that was their perogative with no guarantee what the outcome will be ! Plain and simple fact. That being said if an internet buyer wishes to
get into a bidding war and pay a premium price, isn't that what "WE ALL WISH FOR" when listing items for sale on the Internet.For next years Texas Show if a forum
member wants to contact me and have me send them a SHOW FIGURE" for cost I would be more than happy to do so.

COSTS INCURRED TO ATTEND TEXAS TOY SOLDIER SHOW: Hotel and transportation costs driving within the same state :$$400.00 + not including any of the extras !

SHOW FIGURE CONCEPT: They are what the name implies.....Show figures available at the show. Why have them if they don't have the exclusiveness of the event ???
Why allow collectors to buy multiples.......... Plenty of extras are on hand to make sure to accomodate everyone that attends. Extra figures get sold at the event to prevent the show promoter from getting stuck with hungreds of unsold figures,sell them at the event as intended to who ever wants them.

STUKAS: I have bought Stukas one at a time and listed them up for auction. Yes....ONE AT A TIME. If the item sold on the internet, another one was "PURCHASED"
So in theory if I sold one and went back to obtain another and supplies were sold out that would have been the end of it. To be a speculator I would have had to buy
all at one time, and that did not happen. 8 obtained over a 7 week period of time. Anyone else had the same opportunity as I did over a 7 WEEK timeframe !!!!
I was surprised as anyone else that these were left dormant for so long. Speculator theory goes out in the trash can as far as I am concerned.................
The very last one acquired was on the 17th of August. I even have the receipt dated if anyone would like to see it, but no I am not disclosing the source.
So lets just put the Speculator term and PA selling practices to rest once and for all. Yes it would have been clearly wrong to buy 8 of an exclusive limited item all at
one time, but stretched out over a 7 week period of time seems fair game to me. Again receipts in my possession are my back up of proof ! Not my fault I found
something that someone else didn't !!!!

LIVING IN GLASS HOUSES: There are several forum members here who I know for a fact who have also sold for a substantial "profit" the same item and others from
the 99 made of each brand without even pausing to keep it for themselves. Kind of like saying: He is a bad person....he did something 5 times, I only did the exact very same thing twice !!!!! In addition if you modify an item and return it to its original owner for a fee, you too made money off of the collector. A profit from a Toy Soldier
figure, Tank, or vehicle is a profit.......plain and simple.

TRYING TO "BLOW STUFF UP PEOPLES NOSES" This is a TOY SOLDIER HOBBY forum. Not a buyer and sellers marketplace. It is no ones business what another forum
member chooses to buy and sell. If collectors feel like they are "Missing out" on limited releases stay in constant contact with your dealer,monitor the news here on the forum, and have a "buddy system" where another collector will give you the heads up when a new release is announced. Limited pre orders sell out within 2-3 days !!!

HAND PAINTED FIGURES AN EXPENSIVE HOBBY: You bet it is !!!! Almost all hobbies collectors buy and sell, trade, make extra money WHICH GOES BACK INTO THE HOBBY !!! Sometimes buying that $300.00 or $400.00 item becomes a lot easier with some selling and trading doesn't it ????

 

[PanzerAce1944]

PA44,
You said :
"If people are really true collectors and hobbyists then they would spend more time on the hobby and less time "Worrying What Other People Are Doing"

so it does seem strange that you have spent a lot of posts recently commenting upon repaints (or to be more accurate I think we can safely say one particular repainter).

In general it seems there have been a few threads recently aimed at the repaint / speculator debate. Mitch mentioned a Poll about show figures. Rather than beating around the bush I think the more obvious poll is who is less popular in the hobby world, the repainter or the speculator ? I think the result would be fairly obvious. Based on recent evidence somebody has not yet woken up to this.

Regards
Brett

Well there Brett, You are assuming that you know all of the facts behind all of the garbage which is taking place here. First we need to identify what a speculator is !
What is a speculator ?????? If it is someone who corners a market and buys up everything to prevent others from obtaining it then yes that is a speculator.
If I find an item and can go back week after week for 7 weeks to buy and resell then that falls under an E-Bay seller.........Just as you yourself have done !!
You have a pretty healthy E-Bay selling experience.....Why can't I ????
Some think they can sell and do on E-Bay as they please, but when another sells the comments fly. Do as I say... Not as I do ????? I don't think so................
I sell on E-Bay as thousands of people do....nothing Illegal and all on the up and up. I am not a speculator sad to say.... As far as the repainter for profit goes
he is doing nothing different than I nor yourself. I never prevented anyone from obtaining something. 7 weeks is a long time for an item to sit dormant isn't it ??
Fellow collectors could have bought the very same item as I but in nearly 2 months failed to do so. You better believe the source was more than happy to sell the
same item to one individual week after week since NO ONE ELSE WAS BUYING THEM .

 

[The Military Workshop]

I based my opinion on my experience at the Brisbane K & C diners and on what I have read on the forum etc about overseas events and it appeared to me that One figure was given to each attendee at such events. For example at your last Brisbane K & C diner a family of Three at my table received Three figures which is more than the Two figure 'maximum' that you alluded to. However if people are able to obtain show figures by other means, who really cares, not me that's for sure as most show figures I have received over the years are of little interest to me as I only collect a few different ranges and I intend to swap/sell most of my show figures at some stage.

Matt,
Just a minor point.

Each paying attendee gets a free figure. Had forgotten about Tony attending with his wife and son Sean. However whilst they would have received three figures I know they were not three special figures. Pretty sure each time his wife has got a Chinese lady musician figure and young Sean a figure of his choice as he has a little collection of his own. The special figures remaining I have sold at normal figure price to shop or mail order collectors who could not make it to the dinner. This year I did have one collector want to pay for two dinners to get two figures (he has over 600 SS figures). He paid for the dinner of another attendee who otherwise would not have attended.

I offered one from last year (at $57 incl P/H) to a member of this forum who I could see had a collection of club/special figures but not that one (pilot). He did not want it. That was months before he started his poll about K&C dealers posting {sm4}.

This year after the dinner a couple of collectors brought their special figures in to trade for figures that suited their interests. No problem. They would be well aware, from me, the special figures should be worth more on Ebay than a normal figure.

I agree with the special figures remaining special. In some cases certain figures would be more desirable to the attendees than others (ie. in Brisbane the RAF/RAAF pilot figure more popular than a Brit Navy or SS figure). However I do know collectors happy to keep them as they know they are rarer figures.

As has been indicated by PA44 the Texas Show special figures are handled in a different way and I am pretty sure one of his main critics (elsewhere) would have done the same based on that persons previous Ebay sales.

In relation to the Stuka if what PA44 said is correct when he says he bought over a period of weeks then it indicates the Stuka demand was not that high (which confirms my own thoughts based on feedback from collectors I know).

Regards
Brett
PS Only noted PA's post after posting this but have to go somewhere so not responding just now.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Proof is in the pudding so to say. I would not say the said item was not popular, but here is my side of the story.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Here is another, a full 2 weeks from the last one......again one at a time. Left unwanted I took it as I am sure many others would. ^&cool

 

[OzDigger]

Matt...

Contrary to that view I don't really care if someone agrees with me or not. As is always the case with some its an incorrect view that what I say must be taken as right. I have never said on here to anyone I am right and you are wrong. Had it said to me but, never the other way.

I have no argument with anyone the thread simply asked (until others just could not resist being foolish) whether it was a good idea or not. Not many actually answered that part of the question so, the thread content went in other directions.

As for K&C club figures that was part of my thinking as yes, you have to be a member but, you can now buy multiples of these figures and are not restricted to one or two. This did stop a lot of the high prices that were charged on the internet for these figures when K&C did this. I just wondered aloud whether it was worth doing for with figures elsewhere. I would wonder just how many people onlu collect show figures alone and nothing else but, thats another topic.

We just don't agree with each others stance on this subject. no biggy!! just like we don't see eye to eye on the impact of the battle of britain as being a very very important defeat to the german war machine!!
Mitch

Mitch, you say you don't care if someone disagrees with you and then you drag up the old forum 'debate' I had with you (and Rob) concerning the "Battle of Britain" which was subsequently linked with your "Britain Standing Alone" assertion. Clearly you and Rob cared very much that I disagreed with you, on both matters, to the point that I was branded by you both as being Anti-British and even Pro-Nazi purely because I did not share your point of view on those Two military subjects. I would love to continue such debates on this public forum like the historical debates that used to occur here several years back, but sadly those days are gone.