Still In King & Country's Corner! (4 Viewers)

[Njja]

My brother and I started collecting K&C back in 1986, so I thought I would offer a personal recollection of an earlier K&C which I think some will realize is strikingly similar to the current development of another company mentioned in this thread. Back in 1995, K&C launched Arnhem '44 with one single set, and created the 1/32 matt WWII market. Realizing WWII required vehicles, K&C found a craftsman in Hong Kong to create beautiful wooden and metal vehicles: Tiger Ausf. E, Sturmgeschutz IV, and Hanomag Sd.Kfz. 251. The price in early 1996 for the tanks was a then shocking $346 and the halftrack was $243. I remember Andy asking me for my opinion of the price at an OTSN (Chicago) Show, and my response that very few collectors would want to pay that price for a vehicle. Because of the relatively high price then, fewer than 100 of each of these early wooden and later resin vehicles were made. Some of the early wood vehicles suffered damage in shipping and quite a few developed cracks in the wood. However, K&C kept trying and eventually found the polystone material in 1998 that is being used to the present day to produce good quality and reasonably priced vehicles -- a development for which K&C is justly lauded.

Not simply copying K&C by producing vehicles in polystone like other companies, some of which are now defunct, the other company mentioned in this thread has tried to produce vehicles differently and tried to offer more detailing -- all at prices less than the original list price of the first K&C WWII vehicles but certainly higher than the current average K&C price. Their attempts to offer finer detailed pieces have resulted in lots of damage, skewed tank boogies, and other problems that have disappointed collectors and caused some to avoid their products. However, they appear to have responded to complaints and tried to rectify problems. This other company is trying to innovate and offer a different type of product, and I hope they continue to strive and find their own way like K&C did many years ago.

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As usual Stevens insights are right on the money. Over the years he has provided us with wonderful photos right from King & Country, and Figarti's headquarters along with lots of interesting bits of "insider" information!

All without us having to wait one minute in airport security......or take a goodness knows how many hour flight overseas!

He also has amazing knowledge of interesting deals that have gone on reguarding displays and other unusal pieces that have been sold!

His spies are everywhere!

 

[Njja]

on the plus side of this (supposed dumping of K&C items), the opportunity arises for newer collectors to bid for older/rare/classic items in ebay.

surely a win-win situation for seler, buyer alike.

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Interesting thought! Its always nice when someone has a chance to sort of

step back in time, and pick up a set they missed!

 

[Njja]

Looks like we have had a number of deletions here.

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I haven't seen one yet!

I have also received numerious messages from Forum members that are enjoying the thread, and the discussion.

 

[Njja]

Ya,
but again, all my own opinion, everyone should forumlate their own!

I was a little harsh on plastic, for me it had its time and place and is now being enjoyed by my 5 year old. I make an exception for old Britains Detail (metal parts)

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I agree, there are as many different types of collectors as items to be collected.

As a child I always asked for all the neat Marx Playsets for christmas......and always found the Happy-Time Farm in their place!

Who can say how many collectors today started with these early playsets?

They are certainly very popular amongst many folks, while others enjoy all

different levels of other Military Miniatures.

I think we are most fortunate to have the current level of items available, along with nice examples of the older rarer items on occasion.

 

[Njja]

Here's my 2 cents. I'm in my own corner! I'm not a manufacturer or a dealer, I'm a consumer. As such I'll buy the best quality product out there with the best price I can find. Here's my assessment of some of my favourite brands currently.
K&C : Without a doubt my favourite brand. Nobody can compete with their balance of quality, price and range of offerings. With constant improvement in vehicles and soldiers whose appearance I prefer they are simply the best.
Figarti : They offer outstanding vehicles however I think they are too expensive and limited to be serious competition to K&C. I've only purchased Figarti when K&C has not made a similar product or looks like they won't ( ex. Firefly ). I've had no quality issues. Love their shock and awe contributions to the hobby. I really don't like their figures. They have a "stiff" unnatural look to them. If K&C issued the same product as Figarti I'd go K&C every time.
First Legion : Maybe the best military miniature manufacturer out there. Their figures are comparable to Russian connoisseur product however their prices reflect the quality. They don't currently have many lines I'm interested in however if they go deeper into WWII then look out! Given the huge price of their recent Stug I'm unfortunately not likely going to be a serious collector of FL. Their Samurai's look interesting.
Russian connoisseur : Best product out there but way out of my league and the depth of their releases aren't good enough.
Collector's Showcase : Excellent product, comparable to K&C in quality and price. I like how they are trying to differentiate themselves by offering features on vehicles other manufacturer's aren't doing ( ex. thrown tracks and moving doors ) and by offering multiple versions at once. Their figures don't look as good as K&C's yet. Still unless they differentiate themselves more I'd still buy K&C before CS if they released similar product.
Honour Bound : Used to make top notch vehicles but they were way too expensive. Figures are too expensive as well and just aesthetically don't appeal to me, they look too wirery. They do however have many interesting and unusual releases ( ex. Field kitchens ).
Forces of Valor: Offer excellent value however historical accuracy is an issue and are small 1/32 scale and recently have had very few releases. Their soldiers are truly horrible.

That's my current view on some of the manufacturer's, they are subject to change in the future!

Cheers
CFM

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Nice honest personal opinions on many different current and former manufacters.

Not hostile, just constructive point of view.

I hope we can have more conversations like this in the future. I think it even

is beneficial to the manufacters!

 

[wwiibuff]

Njja,

I'm with you on being in K&C's corner. I've been collecting mainly their WWII lines for several years now and it just keeps getting better and better. Their figures are the best of all IMO and their tanks keep improving and are really nice. I just took out my old Sherman (DD045) and looking at the commander half figure in the turret... he's one of my all time favorite figures with all the detail, his facial expression, the copper colored zipper to his jacket, etc. (see attatched picture). I have never been disappointed with any K&C purchase to date.

I have a couple of Honour Bound tanks and they are really nice. I wish a had gotten a couple more before they stopped making them. Their figures are not quite as good as K&C though IMO, but still pretty good.

I also collect some FOV on the lower price range as for the money, their tanks/vehicles are a good buy if you don't mind the figures and being 1/32 scale.

I haven't yet tried a Figarti tank/vehicle but keep thinking I will soon. I'd like to see how they compare to K&C, but there's so much K&C stuff I have on my wish list, I don't know if I'll get around to it or not. They do look nice in all the photos I've seen.


Anyway, that's my take on it.

 

[Combat]

Not sure why any collector has be in a particular manufacturer's corner. If KC makes the best product - buy it. If someone else makes the best product - buy it. Let them worry about us instead of the opposite. My guess is that a few are sitting on thousands or tens of thousands of dollars of their product.

 

[desk11desk12]

Not sure why any collector has be in a particular manufacturer's corner. If KC makes the best product - buy it. If someone else makes the best product - buy it. Let them worry about us instead of the opposite. My guess is that a few are sitting on thousands or tens of thousands of dollars of their product.

Simply put; I agree with you.

Guys keep discussing the put and that's cool and while you are doing that, I'll keep buying both and enjoy.

Carlos

 

[spartan71]

I agree with what you say Combat, It does not matter on who made it. Just as long as it is the best.
I have pretty much bought Figarti models, just because they are coming out with what I like to have(Firefly, Priest), And they do look great.
But with the m3 halftracks, I think the K&C halftrack. is a lot better. And I agree with another member that figures wise. K&C are better.
And planning to put the figure in DD045( Shooting the machine gun) with my Sherman with fording stacks. Like what I did with my Firefly,And used the figures from the Churchill tank.

 

[Louis Badolato]

I don't think anyone has any question as to the fact that I have long been, and remain, in K&C's corner (after all, I literally wrote the book on Andy's life work). As Steven Chong elloquently stated, Andy's ingenuous launch of the Arnhem series single handedly created the present matt and WWII hobby we all so passionately enjoy. I also agree the the combination of price, quality, and improvement over the years makes K&C the industry leader.

Like Steven, however, I believe that the hobby is far the better for the healthy competition K&C is presently experiencing, particularly from Figarti (who makes the best armored vehicles in the hobby, and whose shock and awe pieces are beyond amazing), and First Legion (who make superior connoisseur quality figures). Although both of these companies offerings are more expensive and more limited, I firmly believe that both have an important place in this hobby, alongside K&C.

Maybe I am just lucky, but I have experienced none of the breakage problems which seem to constantly plague our good friend John. My one complaint with Figarti has always been inconsistency.

I also agree with the Cyber Field Marshall that Figarti's figures are still not as well posed and natural as those produced by K&C and First Legion. However, they have only been at this for 6 years (as opposed to 25 for K&C), and I have been assured by Rick Wang that both the inconsistency and the less than natural posing of the figures are being addressed. I have every confidence that, like K&C, Figarti's figures will continue to improve.

Additionally, thanks to the efforts of Richard Walker and Ken Osen, we have seen a Lazerus-like resurection of Britains over the past year or two as well. I was very impressed with their Zulu War display at the OTSN.

In short, I happen to love the majority of the products I have seen from K&C, Figarti, First Legion, and Britains at this years Chicago Show, and I could not be happier. So I remain in K&C's corner, but have opened my collection to products from several other manufacturers, some of which, in certain ways, are in my opinion better than K&C's offerings.

 

[Warbuff26]

This is easy for me....because those of you who know me also know that I am 100% K&C. It's not that I dont think there are other good product lines out there....its just that I like K&C the best and I remain very brand loyal with the dollars I spend on my hobby. Have I been critical of K&C product in the past...yep...they are not, nor do I expect them to be, perfect. I simply think they are the best company out there and I consider both Andy and Gordon friends. The Saturday of the show I spent alomst 2 hours with Andy and Gordon at a local hobby shop. I was amazed and how they both jumped into their "creative" process and I was honored that they would turn to me and say..."Brian, what do you think about that or this?" Some of what they purchased I was sworn to secrecy but I will say you can expect some amazing new dios in the not too distant future and some of the models that they picked up...oh my!

This is why I am 100% K&C. It's not a knock on the other product lines...just a preference. I think what Figarti is doing is awesome! Rick is a great marketer and the company has come a long way since I first saw some crude snipers many years ago at OTSN. Other lines like to take pot shots at K&C and I dont blame them...they want that market share. I have heard Andy speak...he can be just as, if not more, competitive. But that is why I think they will remain on top...K&C uses the competition to drive their own business model forward. Everyone wins with more competition in the hobby. So yes I am in K&C "corner"...its a great Hobby!

 

[Njja]

Njja,

I'm with you on being in K&C's corner. I've been collecting mainly their WWII lines for several years now and it just keeps getting better and better. Their figures are the best of all IMO and their tanks keep improving and are really nice. I just took out my old Sherman (DD045) and looking at the commander half figure in the turret... he's one of my all time favorite figures with all the detail, his facial expression, the copper colored zipper to his jacket, etc. (see attatched picture). I have never been disappointed with any K&C purchase to date.

I have a couple of Honour Bound tanks and they are really nice. I wish a had gotten a couple more before they stopped making them. Their figures are not quite as good as K&C though IMO, but still pretty good.

I also collect some FOV on the lower price range as for the money, their tanks/vehicles are a good buy if you don't mind the figures and being 1/32 scale.

I haven't yet tried a Figarti tank/vehicle but keep thinking I will soon. I'd like to see how they compare to K&C, but there's so much K&C stuff I have on my wish list, I don't know if I'll get around to it or not. They do look nice in all the photos I've seen.


Anyway, that's my take on it.

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The first thing that attracted me to King & Country was the quality of their figures. And they continue to provide outstanding examples with each new release. I have not been with them as long as some collectors I began in the late 1990's but I couldn't be more happy with my small collection of their
products.

I also recognize their contribution to the industy.

I'm glad you also look forward as do many others to each and every new release they put out.

There are certainly other manufacters also doing excellent work, and we as collectors can pick and choose what we wish to add to our assortment.....but I certainly think King & Country deserves a lot of respect for taking the hobby so far.

 

[Njja]

Not sure why any collector has be in a particular manufacturer's corner. If KC makes the best product - buy it. If someone else makes the best product - buy it. Let them worry about us instead of the opposite. My guess is that a few are sitting on thousands or tens of thousands of dollars of their product.

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Just expressing an opinion. I would also bet some of the larger collectors have spent the amount you suggest on displays for their collections

 

[Desertkiwi]

As someone who has collected figures for years starting with "Britains" plastic's and exprerianced the ever changing face of Toy Soldiers, K&C for me have been that company that truely understands the collector.....

Until resently they were way to expensive for my pocket.....and probably still are for that matter However after winning a set of K&C Special Forces SF4 in 2004 via the UK Toy Soldier magazine I realised what I was missing out on.

Incidently I still have that great set

For me its the whole package. Of course there are other company's that make great figures and vehicles too and thats what makes the hobbie so interesting.

But when you put it all together, from the poses, the vehicles, the updates and leaflets, the website etc, they are the tops for me. Long may they continue to amaze and excite......cheers K&C

 

[Vezzolf]

Couple of points:

1. Have you had a First Legion Stug in your hands? I have, it is light (feather lite) and for $300 that's too hard to swallow. I also think the paint job is lacking.

2. The FL figures are small, they are definitely not compatible and are stand alone. To me, the thighs looked "stretched". Just My Opinion.

3. Figarti production issue has been explained, for now it is 100

4. Andy has said and restated again in Chicago that he will not reproduce the same piece twice, it will always be a new variation. Hence the reason for not rereleasing a Winter Tiger and a Mobile 88.

TD

Response#1: I will soon have one or maybe 2 FL Stugs in my hands soon and from the looks of the photos.....I'm sure they will be highly accurate and detailed models....I look forward to them...."just my opinion".....2) FL Stalingrad figures (which I do have in my hands) are "the best in the business" no one else is even close; again "just my opinion"....3)Figarti products have filled the void for products which K/C have been reluctant in producing and Figarti has done them "FAR BETTER than K/C originals" which are now primative in both style and detail... and overpriced on secondary markets "my opinion"......4) There are now new serious players on the block and in the game...and now we have choices....Again just my opinion

 

[wayne556517]

IMO T-GUNN is right up there with his product,the detail so far is amazing and there are no scale issues,they are compatible with K+C.I am just happy we have all these companys to choose from but i wouldnt get FL simply because they dont go with K+C scale wise,its hard enough now trying to keep up with all the releases going on and now Figarti have the scale issues sorted (I hope) things are looking great.Not to forget CS there new vehicles are great not a fan of there figures (just MO).Once TG gets up and running lets hope he makes some vehicles going on his soldiers so far i think the vehicles would be something special,but after all that K+C have it made,they cover everything for everyone (even JESUS gets a mention..)and its K+C for me but TG is right up there for a very very new company.Thanks to all companys for making this a exciting hobby you gotta love it............

 

[Deitz]

IMO T-GUNN is right up there with his product,the detail so far is amazing and there are no scale issues,they are compatible with K+C.I am just happy we have all these companys to choose from but i wouldnt get FL simply because they dont go with K+C scale wise,its hard enough now trying to keep up with all the releases going on and now Figarti have the scale issues sorted (I hope) things are looking great.Not to forget CS there new vehicles are great not a fan of there figures (just MO).Once TG gets up and running lets hope he makes some vehicles going on his soldiers so far i think the vehicles would be something special,but after all that K+C have it made,they cover everything for everyone (even JESUS gets a mention..)and its K+C for me but TG is right up there for a very very new company.Thanks to all companys for making this a exciting hobby you gotta love it............

As Andy said at the King and Country Dinner at the Chicago show, "We are in a Golden Age of Toy Soldiers."

I agree so many wonderful companies to choose from, there is something for everyone.