Still some sympathizers... (1 Viewer)

[Napoleon1er]

I agree, from what I have learned of WWI it was THE war (of such a magnitude) that could have and should have been prevented! Both "sides" were at fault for it's start and really neither side was "evil" as in the sense of WWII where the German and the Japanese were much more clearly guilty of "evil" actions and intentions. I believe WWII was inevitable while WWI could have easily been avoided. Of course WWII would have have been nearly as inevitable had WWI not occurred so it is a viscous circle.


I just brought the CSA up as a reference point and did not intend for it to cause any issue {sm2}

Totally agree with your view of WWI! I'll also quit on the CSA {sm2}. Speaking of Norway, I just wanted to recognize this tradagy, and remember the victems, and give condolences to survivers and family and friends. The enemy is extremism for hate.
Requiescit in pacem,
Sandor

 

[Scott]

Totally agree with your view of WWI! I'll also quit on the CSA {sm2}. Speaking of Norway, I just wanted to recognize this tradagy, and remember the victems, and give condolences to survivers and family and friends. The enemy is extremism for hate.
Requiescit in pacem,
Sandor

Speaking of Norway indeed!

 

[Warrior]

Isn't it interesting how a news item regarding the disposition of the remains of Rudolf Hess leads to a discussion of the issues surrounding the American Civil War? ^&grin Unfortunately, the ACW and its related issues continue to be a highly emotionally charged topic for many of us.

A news item regarding the weather could lead to a discussion of the issues surrounding the American Civil War, it really doesn't take much to start that engine.

The American Civil War, the war that keeps on giving.

It ended officially in 1865, but will continue to go on forever.

For the life of me I'll never understand why.

How truly sad and pathetic, but also reality..........................

 

[Ruggles]

A news item regarding the weather could lead to a discussion of the issues surrounding the American Civil War, it really doesn't take much to start that engine.

The American Civil War, the war that keeps on giving.

It ended officially in 1865, but will continue to go on forever.

For the life of me I'll never understand why.

How truly sad and pathetic, but also reality..........................

I think it is ingrained into the America psyche as we are a nation born out of rebellion. I for one hope we as a country never lose that "rebellious" sprit as I think it is a prime reason for our success as a country. For all of it's horrors and lingering after effects I think the War Between The States made us a stronger country, we certainly would not be "who we are" without it.

That being said if people are hanging onto some type of anger or hate issues from that conflict then that is pretty odd to say the least

 

[damian]

Guys could we discuss Neo Nazi groups and their agendas and Rudolph Hess here and perhaps move the discussion about the American constitution and the ACW to another thread. It would make it easier for us all.

 

[Warrior]

Guys could we discuss Neo Nazi groups and their agendas and Rudolph Hess here and perhaps move the discussion about the American constitution and the ACW to another thread. It would make it easier for us all.

Agreed; let's shelve the whole ACW debate and go back to Nazi talk, which is what this thread started out as before it got hijacked................

 

[Scott]

Yep ...we agree that the Nazis and their modern sympathizers are bad. Not much of a debate or discussion. In the US of A our 1st Amendment protects the right of these flaming hose nozzles to their opinions.

 

[wadepat]

Gentle Friends,

Twice I encouraged caution and restraint regarding inflammatory posts on this thread. Unfortunately, the "heat" has continued to rise and I have found it necessary to delete several posts that enflame emotions surrounding the American Civil War. Once again, I encourage caution concerning your discussion lest more moderator intervention will be required.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[Napoleon1er]

Yep ...we agree that the Nazis and their modern sympathizers are bad. Not much of a debate or discussion. In the US of A our 1st Amendment protects the right of these flaming hose nozzles to their opinions.

Their opinions support killing me and my family. Why doesn't the Constitution support my right to....."show them an alternative perspective" (for those of you who don't understand what I mean by this, I mean unspeakable acts of violence against those who support mass murder....yes I know we shouldn't stoop to their level, but.....well you get it ). I think the thing to be worried about is the possibility of Nazi memorablia, which is now being sold more widely, becoming popular among kids+teens, and being detached from what it represents, and associated with "toughness" and "rebelion". How should we stop this?
Back on topic ,
Sandor

 

[Scott]

"..Why doesn't the Constitution support my right to...."

It does support your right and their right to free speech and peaceably assemble. I don't worry about Nazi regalia on kids. (Or Harry Potter, Twilight or even lately Demons)) That Nazi stuff has been around since I was a kid and either the wearers out grow it (like I did) or they marginalize themselves.

 

[modwalls]

I remember as a kid winning a Nazi cross at Salisbury Beach arcade. I thought it looked so cool it was big made out of some kind of heavy metal. I remember putting it around my neck walking back to the rented cottage wewere staying at. Then my older brother saying to me, you know that that cross represents the killing of 6 million Jews. We are not Jewish, but I had just seen a mini series the summer before call the Rise and Fall of the Third Riech. I was still haunted by the graphic photos of the dead naked bodies of those poor souls.To this day it still gets my Irish up, I think that is why I enjoy killing Krauts in my video game. I don't really think the kids have any idea about the Iron Cross symbols, or German helmets or SS patches. They are just being young.

 

[Scott]

I remember as a kid winning a Nazi cross at Salisbury Beach arcade. I thought it looked so cool it was big made out of some kind of heavy metal. I remember putting it around my neck walking back to the rented cottage wewere staying at. Then my older brother saying to me, you know that that cross represents the killing of 6 million Jews. We are not Jewish, but I had just seen a mini series the summer before call the Rise and Fall of the Third Riech. I was still haunted by the graphic photos of the dead naked bodies of those poor souls.To this day it still gets my Irish up, I think that is why I enjoy killing Krauts in my video game. I don't really think the kids have any idea about the Iron Cross symbols, or German helmets or SS patches. They are just being young.

I was one of only about 4 adults among a dozen or so kids in the matinee showing of Captain America yesterday. Maybe the cartoon version of WW II will help them know who the real Bad Guys of WW II were. The Red Skull and Hydra of course.

 

[MapleLeaf]

Yes it's very hard to understand how people think
Yet how come German figures tanks memorablia and models
sells three four times more than everything else combine??
LAH for example to me is very colorful, period finito that's all.
Now more manufacturers are coming out with their own line of LAH
and they are very popular. Why??
Must be a good seller. Why??
I don't think the new generation has any clue about it. Why??
I really don't have any awnser yet

 

[Scott]

Lah?

 

[Gideon]

I have German friends and treat individuals in the same way as anyone else, but I have always had a distrust of the German State. In my opinion they have far too great an influence in European affairs and look to be trying to accomplish by devious means what they failed to achieve by feat of arms. Trooper

How so? I was under the impression that they've had enough of bailing out other EU countries. Is there something I'm missing.

 

[trooper]

How so? I was under the impression that they've had enough of bailing out other EU countries. Is there something I'm missing.

I was refering to the shifting of the goal posts of what was initially a Common Market to a European Union, a constant expansion speading across and beyond Europe and attempts to create a Federated State. When I look at maps of Europe the comparison with those of WW2 reawaken echoes that send a shiver down my spine. Maybe I'm being paranoid but I wish our politicians would study history more. I only hope I'm wrong. Trooper

 

[ostrein]

I was refering to the shifting of the goal posts of what was initially a Common Market to a European Union, a constant expansion speading across and beyond Europe and attempts to create a Federated State. When I look at maps of Europe the comparison with those of WW2 reawaken echoes that send a shiver down my spine. Maybe I'm being paranoid but I wish our politicians would study history more. I only hope I'm wrong. Trooper

Pls correct me if I'm wrong but I think it was Napoleon who created the first real European superstate!?

Today european countries apply to become a European Union member. Some are even faking their financial scorecards to be able to join the EURO zone!
But yes, as soon a new country has joined the EU, Germany is sending its troops. Only this time we're not sending soldiers but money. Lots of money!!!

What is so wrong on a European Federal State? It workes well for the US and also for the UK. I don't think the Englisch would be better off if Wales and Scottland would be independant!?
IMO it would be the best for Europe and the rest of the World if we would have a federated state with one government.
And NO - it must not be located in Berlin and in the Reichstagsgebäude!

Oliver

 

[Mitch]

Apparently there is a little nazi inside all us toy soldier collectors just bursting to come out Calling Miss Weaver!!!

When I was doing my post grad work I helped a prof who was doing some work on football hooligans and the links with that and the combat 18 group etc here in the UK. Why?? because over a discussion about my work I told him of a guy I knew at Uni on my criminology course who used to be in combat 18 so, he wanted him interviewed. I helped interview about 150 old national front/combat 18 and BNP members with him and, went to many home addresses of these people and, never once saw any LAH figures or german AFV's

There was quite a bit of literature in some on Fascism and the third reich but, that was in the minority quite a bit of memorabilia from WWII but, then I have a good collection and many authors and others who are not nazi sympathisers do also.

So, the link thats often drawn here about LAH and strange ideas is rather false and has no proof or validation its just a comment someone believes to be so.

The current right wing groups are more interested in their own racism and extremism than to be truly bothered about what went on inside the third reich at that time and, they use the last party member Hess to promulgate their view of the world which, is based on racism not fascism. I agree the two are linked but, thats another issue. Most questioned when asked about the reasons for using the swastika replied it looks good and gives us an image that stands out!!!

My own interest in the LAH in reality and the toy soldiers and my interest in german armour means I should hold politics in line with the BNP etc or be a member of the Combat 18 groups or KKK and similar but, its not the case. Many people can acknowledge etc the german side to WWII without having to don the swastika and adhere to their ideology
Mitch

Yes it's very hard to understand how people think
Yet how come German figures tanks memorablia and models
sells three four times more than everything else combine??
LAH for example to me is very colorful, period finito that's all.
Now more manufacturers are coming out with their own line of LAH
and they are very popular. Why??
Must be a good seller. Why??
I don't think the new generation has any clue about it. Why??
I really don't have any awnser yet

 

[trooper]

Pls correct me if I'm wrong but I think it was Napoleon who created the first real European superstate!?

Today european countries apply to become a European Union member. Some are even faking their financial scorecards to be able to join the EURO zone!
But yes, as soon a new country has joined the EU, Germany is sending its troops. Only this time we're not sending soldiers but money. Lots of money!!!

What is so wrong on a European Federal State? It workes well for the US and also for the UK. I don't think the Englisch would be better off if Wales and Scottland would be independant!?
IMO it would be the best for Europe and the rest of the World if we would have a federated state with one government.
And NO - it must not be located in Berlin and in the Reichstagsgebäude!

Oliver

You are correct with regard to Napoleon's actions, but that started to fall apart very quickly with the nations wanting to regain their independance. You are also correct with regard to various countries applying to join the EU, but you give the impression that Germany alone is providing funds. The money supplied is from the entire group to which all countries subscribe. You say a Federated Union works for the USA, but the USA is one nation, not a conglomerate of many. The closest example would be that of the USSR and that collapsed because of the varied nature of the countries involved. A Federal government for Europe cannot organise anything acceptable to all nations with regard to agricultural policy, taxation, health care, transport or foreign policy, the nations involved are too disparate. What suits a Central European farmer working with high tech machinery on a prairie style farm will not suit a Greek farmer herding goats on a rocky hillside. I respect your opinions, in the same way I hope you respect mine, but on this I feel we must agree to differ. Trooper

 

[Rutledge]

... You are also correct with regard to various countries applying to join the EU, but you give the impression that Germany alone is providing funds. The money supplied is from the entire group to which all countries subscribe....

In theory, yes. The reality is the wealthier EU countries have been carrying the poorer ones. Germany, and to a lesser degree France, has been footing most of the bills, certainly of late. One of the reasons countries like Greece are in such dire straits is through their EU membership they were able to access the lowering borrowing rates of the EU due to the higher credit rating and presumed financial backstop of countries like Germany. They abused this privilege by borrowing more and more money for unsustainable social and other govt welfare programs.

The piper eventually must be paid. Without Germany, Greece would have failed long before now. The other "piigs" are lined up at the trough as well. This story will be unfolding for years to come.