Still some sympathizers... (1 Viewer)

[lancer]

Lah?

Stands for Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler. It was the name of Hitler's bodyguard company that grew into a much larger military unit as time progressed and eventually into one of the most feared fighting divisions in the Wehrmacht. The LAH were the guards in the black uniforms and white trim that one sees in the official dress parades, etc. -- Al

 

[theBaron]

Stands for Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler. It was the name of Hitler's bodyguard company that grew into a much larger military unit as time progressed and eventually into one of the most feared fighting divisions in the Wehrmacht. The LAH were the guards in the black uniforms and white trim that one sees in the official dress parades, etc. -- Al

May I clarify, not in the Wehrmacht, but in the Waffen-SS.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Gideon]

I can't imagine that Germany is trying to take over again. Instead of soldiers, they're sending money. Ok. But if the member countries start backing out Germany will not be sending troops to get them back.

I think that the larger economies in Europe saw this as a way to band together and strengthen their financial standings. But now, yes, there are a few countries who clearly hitched themselves to the horse in order to fund their ways of life. I'm sure this is going to unfold more and more.

 

[lancer]

May I clarify, not in the Wehrmacht, but in the Waffen-SS.

Prost!
Brad

Sorry, Brad. I should have been clearer. I was just lumping the Waffen SS under the banner of the armed forces in general, which is what the Wehrmacht is. I know the Waffen SS was a separate organization (basically a private army controlled by Himmler and the SS), but the Waffen SS vets and apologists have also made a career out of claiming that they "were soldiers like any other soldier". I definitely should have drawn the distinction.:redface2: -- Al

 

[Gideon]

Sorry, Brad. I should have been clearer. I was just lumping the Waffen SS under the banner of the armed forces in general, which is what the Wehrmacht is. I know the Waffen SS was a separate organization (basically a private army controlled by Himmler and the SS), but the Waffen SS vets and apologists have also made a career out of claiming that they "were soldiers like any other soldier". I definitely should have drawn the distinction.:redface2: -- Al

My understanding is that towards the end of the war, the Waffen SS were conscripting from many different places and that many of those conscripted soldiers didn't share the sentiments of the earlier ones. Is this wrong?

 

[theBaron]

Sorry, Brad. I should have been clearer. I was just lumping the Waffen SS under the banner of the armed forces in general, which is what the Wehrmacht is. I know the Waffen SS was a separate organization (basically a private army controlled by Himmler and the SS), but the Waffen SS vets and apologists have also made a career out of claiming that they "were soldiers like any other soldier". I definitely should have drawn the distinction.:redface2: -- Al

Hi, Al, no sweat, I meant it in the spirit of collegial hobby friendship

Prost!
Brad

 

[lancer]

My understanding is that towards the end of the war, the Waffen SS were conscripting from many different places and that many of those conscripted soldiers didn't share the sentiments of the earlier ones. Is this wrong?

That is correct. The Waffen SS, along with it's continued recruitment efforts, drafted men from many different services and backgrounds. The W-SS strict recruitment requirements had to be relaxed or ignored due to manpower needs as the war progressed. The strict nazi beliefs and racial requirements were no longer priorities, either. These relaxed rules cut across all the armed units but especially so in the units raised late in the war or raised of non-German peoples. -- Al

 

[theBaron]

Yes, quite true about the drafts. Interestingly, the author Gunther Grass was drafted into the Waffen-SS and posted to the Frundsberg division-don't know if he was at Arnhem or not, though.

It caused him some embarassment, when it came out. His hometown of Danzig was going to award him some honor, and it was the cause of great debate. Now, no one can seriously accuse Grass of ever being a Nazi, but on the other hand, to patriotic Poles, it was a bit of an outrage to grant any kind of honor to any former SS man, no matter if he was born in Danzig or not.

Grass described receiving his draft notice, and apparently, there was no distinguishing marks on the letter, so it wasn't till he opened it that he saw that he was drafted into the Waffen-SS and not the Army.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Mitch]

Look at the muslim SS the Hanjar and the croation units. No real links per se to the Germanic ideology but, they were particularly associated with atrocities. Hitlers and Himmlers foreign legions fought with a fervour that was astonishing
Mitch

That is correct. The Waffen SS, along with it's continued recruitment efforts, drafted men from many different services and backgrounds. The W-SS strict recruitment requirements had to be relaxed or ignored due to manpower needs as the war progressed. The strict nazi beliefs and racial requirements were no longer priorities, either. These relaxed rules cut across all the armed units but especially so in the units raised late in the war or raised of non-German peoples. -- Al

 

[theBaron]

Look at the muslim SS the Hanjar and the croation units. No real links per se to the Germanic ideology but, they were particularly associated with atrocities. Hitlers and Himmlers foreign legions fought with a fervour that was astonishing
Mitch

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the party's "anthropologists" did make some kind of rationalization to explain raising those units, perhaps calling them "non-Germanic Aryans" or something similar. Some of the real fuzzy thinking among the Nazis' historians/archeologists went down paths like that, trying to find physical evidence somewhere for an ancestral homeland for the Aryans, from which they spread out to the rest of Eurasia. I haven't studied that part of the history enough to be able to cite specific authors, but there were projects like the Ahnenerbe, that tried to make facts and artifacts fit the theory.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Scott]

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the party's "anthropologists" did make some kind of rationalization to explain raising those units, perhaps calling them "non-Germanic Aryans" or something similar. Some of the real fuzzy thinking among the Nazis' historians/archeologists went down paths like that, trying to find physical evidence somewhere for an ancestral homeland for the Aryans, from which they spread out to the rest of Eurasia. I haven't studied that part of the history enough to be able to cite specific authors, but there were projects like the Ahnenerbe, that tried to make facts and artifacts fit the theory.

Prost!
Brad

I used to see an lady who was from Latvia. She had a bad time as a child and hated the Russians and the Germans that drfted her dad as an industrial technician. I didn't remind her of the 2 SS divisions that were mainly Latvians.

 

[Mitch]

Christopher Hale wrote a very good book on this called Himmlers crusade about the german quest to tace the aryan heitage. Bruno Beger and Ernst Schafer led the tibetan expedition to Tibet.

There is also a plethora of documentation about these expeditions and the findings etc. The germans or some particularly liked this kind of stuff
Mitch

 

[Gideon]

I was refering to the shifting of the goal posts of what was initially a Common Market to a European Union, a constant expansion speading across and beyond Europe and attempts to create a Federated State. When I look at maps of Europe the comparison with those of WW2 reawaken echoes that send a shiver down my spine. Maybe I'm being paranoid but I wish our politicians would study history more. I only hope I'm wrong. Trooper

hey trooper, at first i was skeptical of what you were getting at but now that i've brushed up a bit on how the eu/euro works and nation states autonomy to manage currency, debt and their own financial affairs, i am seeing things differently now.

i would be very nervous what germany and france are meddling with and the new nationalism/border softness taking place.

 

[theBaron]

hey trooper, at first i was skeptical of what you were getting at but now that i've brushed up a bit on how the eu/euro works and nation states autonomy to manage currency, debt and their own financial affairs, i am seeing things differently now.

i would be very nervous what germany and france are meddling with and the new nationalism/border softness taking place.

The Germans aren't too happy about the Euro, and about having to bail out the Mediterranean countries' economies.

 

[Gideon]

Hey Baron,

The German people might not be happy about it but there are larger games being played.

Look up the Democracy Now coverage of this. The story appears deeper and murkier than what we think it is.

 

[theBaron]

Hey Baron,

The German people might not be happy about it but there are larger games being played.

Look up the Democracy Now coverage of this. The story appears deeper and murkier than what we think it is.

I'd take their reporting with a grain of salt, or at least, consider that they have their own viewpoint, through which they filter their news.

That's not to say that no news source doesn't filter, but we need to recognize it, before considering any story from any source.

 

[Gideon]

I'd take their reporting with a grain of salt, or at least, consider that they have their own viewpoint, through which they filter their news.

That's not to say that no news source doesn't filter, but we need to recognize it, before considering any story from any source.

I've actually found their reporting to be among the most accurate out there. They delve into, explain the background of the parties and do an amazing job researching their stories whcih can be looked and actually verified.

I do recommend that people watch that source. They report on things "on the ground" so to speak and put themselves in harms way here in the US to show us whats happening.

Grain of salt? Not really in their case. They've been far more useful than every major media outlet I've seen to date. It's the stuff we should be hearing about.

 

[ROAN]

I'd take their reporting with a grain of salt, or at least, consider that they have their own viewpoint, through which they filter their news.

That's not to say that no news source doesn't filter, but we need to recognize it, before considering any story from any source.

Agree-Amy Goodman and Juan Gonzalez, IMO, are both ideologues. I tend to shy away
from ideologues-both from the Right and the Left.