The Glory of Rome (2 Viewers)

[kogu]

Hi Sahara,
what does the Optio carry?
It's not a spear or lance. Is it a rank symbol or actually a weapon?
Konrad

 

[Sahara]

Hi Sahara,
what does the Optio carry?
It's not a spear or lance. Is it a rank symbol or actually a weapon?
Konrad

Hi Konrad,

I believe it was called a Hastile staff. As mentioned the Optios main duty during battle was to maintain the ranks and keep order. The optio would use his staff to move his soldiers around as directed by various trumpet calls. In the thick of things I'm sure that it was used as a weapon but the optio had better options such as the gladius if the situation called for it.

 

[kogu]

Hi Konrad,

I believe it was called a Hastile staff. As mentioned the Optios main duty during battle was to maintain the ranks and keep order. The optio would use his staff to move his soldiers around as directed by various trumpet calls. In the thick of things I'm sure that it was used as a weapon but the optio had better options such as the gladius if the situation called for it.

Thank you, Sahara, much appreciated :smile2:
Konrad

 

[Fusilier]

Hi Sahara,
what does the Optio carry?
It's not a spear or lance. Is it a rank symbol or actually a weapon?
Konrad

I was going to chime in, but Sahara already did a good job answering this question.

Noah

 

[LordAnhausen]

You guys might find a book called Legions of Rome useful. Written by Stephen Dando-Collins published in 2010 it supposedly has some of the latest most current thought on each of the Roman Legions. I ordered mine from UK when I had trouble finding it here

 

[LordAnhausen]

The applause for First Legion seems endless on this thread and I'm sure is well deserved. That said, am I the only one who is disturbed by poses being recycled rather than new ones being made. Look at Rome13 and 14
Isn't this the same figure with only the arms and standard being changed?
Careful posing and pictures hide this but if u take a close look it appears to be the same figure. One of the 2 figures is shown in photos from all sides. The other only from the front. If seen from the back I think you would see what I am talking about
:rolleyes2: At the prices FL is charging I would hope they would be less flagrant in the recycling.

 

[Sahara]

"Legions of Rome" is a very good book. I read it about a month or two ago. Dando-Collons has numerous books on Rome that are also excellent but some of his material can be a little inaccurate or lacking at times. Overall I really liked that book and would recommend it to any Roman military enthusiast

 

[MapleLeaf]

Something is missing in this thread
Currahee Chris
The Romans was his big joy
In hockey a misconduct penalty is only 10 minutes
Ur penalty is over brother get back on the ice
time to play again
Maple Leaf

 

[Sahara]

Something is missing in this thread
Currahee Chris
The Romans was his big joy
In hockey a misconduct penalty is only 10 minutes
Ur penalty is over brother get back on the ice
time to play again
Maple Leaf

Good point, I wonder where he is?

 

[Andanna]

The applause for First Legion seems endless on this thread and I'm sure is well deserved. That said, am I the only one who is disturbed by poses being recycled rather than new ones being made. Look at Rome13 and 14
Isn't this the same figure with only the arms and standard being changed?
Careful posing and pictures hide this but if u take a close look it appears to be the same figure. One of the 2 figures is shown in photos from all sides. The other only from the front. If seen from the back I think you would see what I am talking about
:rolleyes2: At the prices FL is charging I would hope they would be less flagrant in the recycling.

Your observation is correct of course. There is recycling of certain parts of the sculpts. It is a decisive factor for me when ordering my figures and I avoid ordering two figures in one shipment that appear to be too close. But if you look at the two units of Napoleonic Westphalians and the Templar and Hospitaller Crusaders, the recycling the way FL does it in those ranges does not hurt. Discussing this with Matt, this sensible way of using modified sculpts is very economic and allows the production of less popular units (like the Westphalians).

 

[LordAnhausen]

Your observation is correct of course. There is recycling of certain parts of the sculpts. It is a decisive factor for me when ordering my figures and I avoid ordering two figures in one shipment that appear to be too close. But if you look at the two units of Napoleonic Westphalians and the Templar and Hospitaller Crusaders, the recycling the way FL does it in those ranges does not hurt. Discussing this with Matt, this sensible way of using modified sculpts is very economic and allows the production of less popular units (like the Westphalians).

thank u for admitting my observation is correct.I've had several FL fans tell me i was wrong. hope you understand that it would be better for you to point out the recycling rather than trying to show us the figures from different camera angles which makes it seem like you are hiding the twice used figures. at the prices you folks charge i'd personally think unique sculpts might be in order. that said your painting is terrific!!

 

[MC BOWEN]

I pre-ordered romans -1-8.anyone have any idea when they might be shipping?last i heard was end of june --which i think is today.if anyone has heard anything different i would love to know.thanks .

 

[MC BOWEN]

i pre-ordered romans -1-8.anyone have any idea when they might be shipping?last i heard was end of june --which i think is today.if anyone has heard anything different i would love to know.thanks .

got an e-mail from matt at 1st legion ----says they will be shipping right after the 4th holiday.

 

[Gebhard]

The applause for First Legion seems endless on this thread and I'm sure is well deserved. That said, am I the only one who is disturbed by poses being recycled rather than new ones being made. Look at Rome13 and 14
Isn't this the same figure with only the arms and standard being changed?
Careful posing and pictures hide this but if u take a close look it appears to be the same figure. One of the 2 figures is shown in photos from all sides. The other only from the front. If seen from the back I think you would see what I am talking about
:rolleyes2: At the prices FL is charging I would hope they would be less flagrant in the recycling.

Hello,
Can I ask why you are disturbed about a pose being recycled ? As far as I can tell Rome 13 and 14 only share the same body , but have different arms and heads and of course one is a Aquilifer and one is an Imaginifer . Were you planning on buying them both and this turned you off ?

I really don't think First Legion are trying to hide anything with the photo's on their site ^&confuse
And why the rolleyes and the "At the prices FL is charging I would hope they would be less flagrant in the recycling"
I think that's a bit harsh .. for a company who IMO has the best quality to price ratio in the business .

The fact is that all companies do use many of their sculpts for more than one figure and there are several reasons behind this .
Speaking about First Legion they use world class figure sculptors and because their sculpting is so expensive, they often have to create a second unique figure from a single sculpt in order to bring the sculpting cost per figure down. The alternative would be raising the price per figure by $5-$10 (which is one reason their specialist figures are often more expensive than their rank and file).

Another reason is that they could of course simply not add the extra variety at all, giving collectors less choice and for example only releasing either ROM013 or ROM014. Of course no one is saying you have to buy both , I for one like to have more choices .

I provide here a link to Aeroart who I also collect please look at figure code 5159 too 6110.3 you will notice there are only three sculpts but through painting and different heads they have created 12 figures and they are running about $140.00 http://www.aeroartinc.com/st-petersburg-collection/age-of-chivalry/crusades-1000-1400-ad.html . Just in case you would like to go tell collectors of Aeroart how disturbed this makes you they are represented on this forum under the Connoisseur Figures thread .

I really don't have a problem with companies doing this and they all do , it offers us as collectors more choice . You are free to choose the ones you like or not to choose any at all .
If you know of any company producing Romans to the same level as First Legion at anything close to their price please feel free to pm me with info as I'm always looking to add to my collection .
Gebhard

 

[Gebhard]

I pre-ordered romans -1-8.anyone have any idea when they might be shipping?last i heard was end of june --which i think is today.if anyone has heard anything different i would love to know.thanks .

Matt is on vacation I don't know if this is the reason , but if they don't ship soon we can always blame him :wink2:
I'm in the same boat as you I keep checking the website everyday to see it they are shipping . Regards Gebhard

 

[LordAnhausen]

Hello,
Can I ask why you are disturbed about a pose being recycled ? As far as I can tell Rome 13 and 14 only share the same body , but have different arms and heads and of course one is a Aquilifer and one is an Imaginifer . Were you planning on buying them both and this turned you off ?

I really don't think First Legion are trying to hide anything with the photo's on their site ^&confuse
And why the rolleyes and the "At the prices FL is charging I would hope they would be less flagrant in the recycling"
I think that's a bit harsh .. for a company who IMO has the best quality to price ratio in the business .

The fact is that all companies do use many of their sculpts for more than one figure and there are several reasons behind this .
Speaking about First Legion they use world class figure sculptors and because their sculpting is so expensive, they often have to create a second unique figure from a single sculpt in order to bring the sculpting cost per figure down. The alternative would be raising the price per figure by $5-$10 (which is one reason their specialist figures are often more expensive than their rank and file).

Another reason is that they could of course simply not add the extra variety at all, giving collectors less choice and for example only releasing either ROM013 or ROM014. Of course no one is saying you have to buy both , I for one like to have more choices .

I provide here a link to Aeroart who I also collect please look at figure code 5159 too 6110.3 you will notice there are only three sculpts but through painting and different heads they have created 12 figures and they are running about $140.00 http://www.aeroartinc.com/st-petersburg-collection/age-of-chivalry/crusades-1000-1400-ad.html . Just in case you would like to go tell collectors of Aeroart how disturbed this makes you they are represented on this forum under the Connoisseur Figures thread .

I really don't have a problem with companies doing this and they all do , it offers us as collectors more choice . You are free to choose the ones you like or not to choose any at all .
If you know of any company producing Romans to the same level as First Legion at anything close to their price please feel free to pm me with info as I'm always looking to add to my collection .
Gebhard

I certainly didn't mean to offend or cause such a defensive reaction. Do you work for or sell FL? Or are you just a collector?
You are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to mine and while you don't have a problem with poses being recycled, I do. I have relooked at the photos and it seems pretty clear to me that the poses were intentionally shown in a way which would minimize a collector noticing that the poses were virtually the same.
Also I disagree with your comment that all companies recycle their figures. I dont think this is true at all for most companies and from what I have seen only a few companies recycle as noticeably as FL has done in this case. seems to me that the more expensive a figure is the more I have a right to expect it to be unique.
And why are you telling me to go look at aeroart? I have no interest in aeroart due to their price point so why woud I waste my time contacting them . Sounds to me as though my recycling point is too close to the mark and you are trying to justify it by pointing fingers at aeroart. If FL wants to be the best they should consistently offer the best which includes unique sculpts.I think most FL collectors would be happy to pay a little more for a unique sculpt. :rolleyes2::rolleyes2::rolleyes2::rolleyes2::rolleyes2::rolleyes2::rolleyes2::rolleyes2:

 

[Gebhard]

I certainly didn't mean to offend or cause such a defensive reaction. Do you work for or sell FL? Or are you just a collector?
You are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to mine and while you don't have a problem with poses being recycled, I do. I have relooked at the photos and it seems pretty clear to me that the poses were intentionally shown in a way which would minimize a collector noticing that the poses were virtually the same.
Also I disagree with your comment that all companies recycle their figures. I dont think this is true at all for most companies and from what I have seen only a few companies recycle as noticeably as FL has done in this case. seems to me that the more expensive a figure is the more I have a right to expect it to be unique.
And why are you telling me to go look at aeroart? I have no interest in aeroart due to their price point so why woud I waste my time contacting them . Sounds to me as though my recycling point is too close to the mark and you are trying to justify it by pointing fingers at aeroart. If FL wants to be the best they should consistently offer the best which includes unique sculpts.I think most FL collectors would be happy to pay a little more for a unique sculpt. :rolleyes2::rolleyes2::rolleyes2::rolleyes2::rolleyes2::rolleyes2::rolleyes2::rolleyes2:

I just a collector unfortunately
. Its not that you offended me , I'm just running a little short on understanding just what your complaining about ??
Again I ask were you planing on buying these figures ??
And I'll also ask you what you collect ?? I'd be happy to point out some " recycling " for ya.

I do agree that First Legion collectors would be happy to pay a little more for a unique sculpt and we do .
I'm sorry If you didn't like my response but it always seems like guys who don't collect or own a single First legion figure always cry about the price . While the collectors who do own them could not be more happier with the quality to price ratio .
I'm sure you are right that evil Matt purposely posed those figures just to deceive you :rolleyes2::rolleyes2: I mean come on man you can't be serious
Gebhard

 

[LordAnhausen]

I never said I didnt like your response. To the contrary you are the one who clearly doesnt like my raising questions about a company you like a bunch and I am fine with that. Im happy you are passionate about FL and wish you well with buying all of ther sets and dont take offence at your being so loyal to FL I think FL is terriific too Its a wonderful thing about toy soldiers that different guys like different periods and companies. The diversity makes the industry great
. I hadnt said it before but the other thing I dont think is worthy of FL and their obvious quest to bethe selfstyled leader is that one of the two poses 013 or 014 is very very very similar to a beautiful Roman sculpt done by Time Machine a few years back with ther excellent Teutoburger Wald series which i have. Rather than start an international incident by suggesting the excellent pose was copied by FL I will just say it is an amazing coincidence
And no thanks I dont need you to point out recycling by other companies to me. Since I was able to point out FL recycling I am pretty confident I can see recycling by others on my own
Check out http://www.timemachineminiatures.co...var1=Teutoburger+Series+1/scan0004.jpg&var2=1

 

[FirstLegion]

I never said I didnt like your response. To the contrary you are the one who clearly doesnt like my raising questions about a company you like a bunch and I am fine with that. Im happy you are passionate about FL and wish you well with buying all of ther sets and dont take offence at your being so loyal to FL I think FL is terriific too Its a wonderful thing about toy soldiers that different guys like different periods and companies. The diversity makes the industry great
. I hadnt said it before but the other thing I dont think is worthy of FL and their obvious quest to bethe selfstyled leader is that one of the two poses 013 or 014 is very very very similar to a beautiful Roman sculpt done by Time Machine a few years back with ther excellent Teutoburger Wald series which i have. Rather than start an international incident by suggesting the excellent pose was copied by FL I will just say it is an amazing coincidence
And no thanks I dont need you to point out recycling by other companies to me. Since I was able to point out FL recycling I am pretty confident I can see recycling by others on my own
Check out http://www.timemachineminiatures.co...var1=Teutoburger+Series+1/scan0004.jpg&var2=1

Actually, I've never seen that Time Machine sculpt before, so thanks for pointing it out. However, I would venture to say that if there is a sculpt that provided inspiration for both our figure and the Time Machine figure, it's a figure that was done by Russian Vityaz (I believe) quite some time ago. And even then, I have no way of knowing if that was the inspiration or rather if there is a drawing or painting out there that inspired all three figures.

As for why we use the same basic sculpt for multiple figures, Gebhard has touched on a lot of the reasons. You may think our figures are expensive, but relative to similar figures we believe they are extremely inexpensive. Using the same basic sculpt for multiple poses is something we've done since our very first release and for all of our ranges. So given that we've released well over 500 sets and this is the first "complaint" we've received about it, I think that's quite ok. I also think it is well within your right not to buy the figures that you feel are too similar to one another. No one if forcing you to do so! However, the overwhelming majority of our customers love that we put added variety into our ranges so that they don't have to purchase the "exact" same figure over and over again to fill out a line of battle type diorama. Even the smallest changes can very positively impact how the figures look en masse, which is the single biggest influence of how we design our releases. So we'll continue to do things the way that we do them and you are free to like it or not, buy them or not, or even to continue pointing it out or not. But we're pretty happy about how we do things and have no intention of changing whatsoever as we feel we've reached a very good compromise between retail price, overall effect, and quality/diversity. I believe most of our customers appreciate it as well.

Oh, and thanks for the kind words about our figures and company and note that we don't take offense at all at what you've said. It's a fair enough observation. But FYI - The reason we show figures from multiple angles is because many people only look at the first image and we feel that showing a figure from a new angle is good because our figures look good from all angles. ^&grin In fact, I can't think of another company that shows so many images of each of their figures. But please don't think it was done to decieve or hide anything, it was merely done to offer a view at another angle. I think it would be pretty insulting to our customers if we thought we were fooling them!

Best,

Matt

 

[Gebhard]

I never said I didnt like your response. To the contrary you are the one who clearly doesnt like my raising questions about a company you like a bunch and I am fine with that. Im happy you are passionate about FL and wish you well with buying all of ther sets and dont take offence at your being so loyal to FL I think FL is terriific too Its a wonderful thing about toy soldiers that different guys like different periods and companies. The diversity makes the industry great
. I hadnt said it before but the other thing I dont think is worthy of FL and their obvious quest to bethe selfstyled leader is that one of the two poses 013 or 014 is very very very similar to a beautiful Roman sculpt done by Time Machine a few years back with ther excellent Teutoburger Wald series which i have. Rather than start an international incident by suggesting the excellent pose was copied by FL I will just say it is an amazing coincidence
And no thanks I dont need you to point out recycling by other companies to me. Since I was able to point out FL recycling I am pretty confident I can see recycling by others on my own
Check out http://www.timemachineminiatures.co...var1=Teutoburger+Series+1/scan0004.jpg&var2=1

I have seen that whole Dio by time machine in person last year in PA and I must have took about 30 pictures of it . I love it {bravo}} .They do some nice kits which I also have some , they are reasonably priced but I have to commission a Great painter to paint them for me which makes it for me cheaper to buy ready made figures . I collect for many many years commissioned kits (many companies) , Russian sculpted figures like Aeroart / Kelobob and several others and over the past several years First Legion. I really don't think First Legion copy this pose yes they are of a similar type of figure but different also :wink2:
I plan on trying to recreate it using First legion . I even visited Kalkriese last September so you can imagine how happy I was to see First Legion start to release Romans and some Germanic Warriors this year .. you should give one a try seeing you like timemachine I don't think you would be disappointed ..Cheers Gebhard