Toy Soldier Secondary Market – Is it a “Buyers” or “Sellers” Market? Why? (2 Viewers)

[Warrior]

Those that remember the $89 for 4 figure days constantly compare pricing that way whereas a new collector has no such reference point and is presumably happy to pay todays prices.


Fortunately the comments and impression given from some threads do not reflect the reality of what happens outside of the forum.

This is spot on; newer collectors have no "good old days" pricing reference points, they pay todays prices and that's that.

The customer I spoke of who is buidling the diorama is paying todays going rate for figures and vehicles as he knows no other prices.

And yes, the comments and impressions here do not reflect the reality of what happens outside of the forum (for the most part); if they did, I'd be having pop tarts for breakfast, mustard sandwiches on white bread for lunch and soup for dinner 7 days a week..........

 

[jazzeum]

The impression one can get from these kinds of threads -- unintentional I'm sure -- is doom and gloom. Contrast this with people going to shows: people are happy and happy to be buying things.

 

[Rob]

The impression one can get from these kinds of threads -- unintentional I'm sure -- is doom and gloom. Contrast this with people going to shows: people are happy and happy to be buying things.

Do agree with this. I know some people are not happy with prices etc and will vote with their wallets as they see fit, but meanwhile as Brad says many many people still are enjoying their hobby and enlarging their collections. We all grumble about prices but are still collecting and enjoying the hobby very much. I guess its not an easy hobby to walk away from!

Rob

 

[Mitch]

don't think this thread is doom and gloom its obvious just looking at secondary prices that things have changed in the hobby regarding prices. It seems from what is being said that this forum which many who are now saying its not reflective of the hobby in general is the doom and gloom part whilst everyone at shows is happy and content?? Seems rather strange that the same people are the ones who have been saying and agreeing that this forum is a reflection of the hobby as a whole.

It seems anything that is reflective of people's circumstances and is not all singing and waving is doom and gloom. Perhaps, it is realism as cutting back and changing buying habits seems quite the norm for many on here. In a hobby where we are told its only small of 30,000 that over 2,000 is not representative?? Funny that allegedly all the doom and gloomers are on one forum when it suits.

Have you noticed its always the same (roughly) ever so jolly everything in the garden is always rosy who attend the same shows and, never see anything wrong with the hobby but, a wider range recently are not happy with prices and other things be it saying it in open forum or PM etc?

Not even sure this about how happy people are at shows has anything whatsoever to do with the question originally asked but, the question allows people to discuss their concerns etc which we just don't want to see here.
Mitch

 

[gk5717]

I have to admit I fell into that gloom & doom scenerio. George has actually said it right. After 10, 15 years of collecting one tends to loose that passion, the willingness to spend hundreds of dollars on basiclly the same thing, I mean how many tiger tanks can one have and get excited about.
I did learn one thing. I sold about 20% of my collection and now with it thinned out a bit, I can see individual figures and enjoy them as opposed to them all cramned together in one big blob. So much so that I bought a few more, the first purchase in almost 8 months.
This is not a knock on other companies, but I now buy only K&C, except for a few unique items from other companies, as K&C is what got me started and I never have any doubt about their quality AND they always arrive safely.
As to selling on the secondary market, unless you list them low they probablly won,t sell.
Gary

 

[Rob]

I think George nailed it when he talked of those of us collecting for many years remembering when prices were a lot lower. I remember when four figs were seventy four pounds which looking back was great, but that was quite a few years ago now and I have to accept those prices are not coming back. Well either accept or quit collecting, I'm not going to do that so onwards and upwards, with a bit of belt tightening. June is not the busiest of shows in London nor the quietest either and there was steady if not heavy traffic around the tables. As George said if you are just joining the hobby and ok with the prices it must be easier not to have known cheaper prices. Perhaps these days 'Selective' is a key word and not ' Completest ' anymore. But overall its still a great hobby with lots more to be discovered yet, roll on Chicago!

Rob

 

[jazzeum]

I remember when I (or actually my parents) paid $2,900 for my first new car. Well, those days are long gone but I'm still driving.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I remember when I (or actually my parents) paid $2,900 for my first new car. Well, those days are long gone but I'm still driving.

What a silly argument to make. For many people' driving is a necessity. I'm surprised you didn't say that food prices were up but you were still eating. Hardly a good comparison to a non-essential luxury good like toy soldiers.

And in any case' the sky is not falling. The TS industry isn't dying. What Joe's post said was that a segment of the collector market was changing and he described how it was changing - and this was confirmed by George in his posts on this thread.

Please re-read what Joe said "I'm actually enjoying the hobby more than ever as I, like many collectors, have adopted a "less is more" philosophy as I have found what works for me in terms of getting what I believe to be the best enjoyment/value quotient I can. I'm buying less, but cherishing what I get." Also keep in mind Andy's stated philosophy "Buy what you like and can afford" He didn't say pay my prices and accept the quality I am producing or stop collecting TS. There is more choice than ever in the market including more reasonable prices for older items in the secondary market and some of the newer stuff at below retail both on eBay and Treefrog Classifieds.

Terry

 

[HistoryfortheAges]

Interesting and glad to hear that some TS retailers are doing well... I hear from other TS retailers that business has been down quite a bit this year... "Tradition" has closed down their shop in London and "Mignot" of France has slowed down their production output by quite a lot. With several manufacturers changing their business tactics quite often in the last year, makes you wonder what is really happening in the TS marketplace? ^&confuse

 

[jazzeum]

Aaah, the Grinch is here, oh, goodie, he who complains he doesn't buy any more TS, who forgot what the hobby is about. Hello Grinch ^&grin

 

[HistoryfortheAges]

The yin and yang... ^&grin

Cannot deny the facts... {eek3}

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Aaah, the Grinch is here, oh, goodie, he who complains he doesn't buy any more TS, who forgot what the hobby is about. Hello Grinch ^&grin

It's about collecting and the history behind the pieces. It's not about spending a certain dollar amount per year. I'm still collecting and still buying but being much more selective. I'm minding my (P)s and (Q)s.^&grin

Terry

 

[Go for Broke]

I've been telling myself not to buy for 2-years now and am still spending around the same amount every year. I get happy when I don't have any brand new soldiers to buy, but like always I end up finding something in the Treefrog classified or consignment.

 

[Jack]

I don't buy on E-Bay and am too new to the hobby to remember the good old days when the sun was always shining, the beer was always cold and tanks were 89 dollars, but why are prices going up in the shops and down on E-Bay? Wouldn't they be both up or both down? Are people pursuing a cheaper version of the hobby on E-Bay?

 

[desk11desk12]

I don't buy on E-Bay and am too new to the hobby to remember the good old days when the sun was always shining, the beer was always cold and tanks were 89 dollars, but why are prices going up in the shops and down on E-Bay? Wouldn't they be both up or both down? Are people pursuing a cheaper version of the hobby on E-Bay?

Interesting question Jack. Interesting indeed.

I was wondering the same. Maybe more collectors perceive today's offerings are have superior quality and worth the extra bucks.

Still, all of the pieces of this puzzle haven't been found yet because it still doesn't make sense to me.

Carlos

 

[jazzeum]

It's about collecting and the history behind the pieces. It's not about spending a certain dollar amount per year. I'm still collecting and still buying but being much more selective. I'm minding my (P)s and (Q)s.^&grin

Terry

I was being a little scarcastic, sorry. However, I think you and I have, as we've discussed privately, different opinions about this. I see this thread as complaining a lot about prices and I just think there is too much complaining and not enough enjoying. I'm sure others (not necessarily Terry) may disagree.

I don't see these kinds of threads in the glossy threads. All I see is a lot of people enjoying what they have. Which is what I see at shows.

Not much more to say on the topic I suppose.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I don't buy on E-Bay and am too new to the hobby to remember the good old days when the sun was always shining, the beer was always cold and tanks were 89 dollars, but why are prices going up in the shops and down on E-Bay? Wouldn't they be both up or both down? Are people pursuing a cheaper version of the hobby on E-Bay?

Buying a new tank is like buying a new car. It loses 25% of it's retail value as you drive it off the lot. ^&grin

Most manufacturers have fixed price agreements with their dealers as in no sale prices or discounts. Most dealers get partly around this by offering free shipping or bonuses if you buy a certain amount from them. Once the item has been on the market for a while, some collectors decide to sell it but they are still competing with new from dealer models so to compete, they drop the price to below retail. As more time goes buy and more of the item goes on the resale market, the price gets pushed lower. Some rare ones do go up but most go down in value these days. All you have to do to check is run a list of ebay sales for that item and it shows if any are listed, at what price, dealer or private sale. It also shows the one that sold and didn't sell over the past several months. You will be hard pressed to find items produced in the past 5-7 years that sell for more than their original retail price. Many resell for less. If dealers were allowed to discount, prices would be lower to collectors.

Terry

 

[Jack]

Buying a new tank is like buying a new car. It loses 25% of it's retail value as you drive it off the lot. ^&grin

Most manufacturers have fixed price agreements with their dealers as in no sale prices or discounts. Most dealers get partly around this by offering free shipping or bonuses if you buy a certain amount from them. Once theitem has been on the market for a while, some collectors decide to sell it but they are still competing with new from dealer models so to compete, they drop the price to below retail. As more time goes buy and more of the item goes on the resale market, the price gets pushed lower. Some rare ones do go up but most go down in value these days. All you have to do to check is run a list of ebay sales for that item and it shows if any are listed, at what price, dealer or private sale. It also shows the one that ssolde and didn't sell over the past several months. You will be hard pressed to find items produced in the past 5-7 years that sell for more than their original retail price.

Terry

So if I make like Ashton Kutcher and search out a model past its prime I can do quite well for myself!{sm4}

 

[Jack]

I was being a little scarcastic, sorry. However, I think you and I have, as we've discussed privately, different opinions about this. I see this thread as complaining a lot about prices and I just think there is too much complaining and not enough enjoying. I'm sure others (not necessarily Terry) may disagree.

I don't see these kinds of threads in the glossy threads. All I see is a lot of people enjoying what they have. Which is what I see at shows.

Not much more to say on the topic I suppose.

A collector I discussed this very issue with argued that because painters (although not all glossy collectors paint of course) have a creative outlet beyond the act of collecting, they are less frustrated by the ups and downs of the hobby. The view was that if you 'just' collect and you are not part of a community of collectors that you socialise with, your engagement can be dominated by the actual act of purchasing to the exclusion of all else. As for the clamness of glossy collectors - yes, they do seem a rather contented lot. Perhaps with the accuracy issue off the table there is less to argue about. I have heard it argued that glossy collecting is a different hobby which might mean it attracts a different type of person. It would appear to be a hobby that contains both the cheapest and dearest sets so maybe there is more room for everyone whereas matte figures tend to be closer in price. .

 

[Jack]

A collector I discussed this very issue with argued that because painters (although not all glossy collectors paint of course) have a creative outlet beyond the act of collecting, they are less frustrated by the ups and downs of the hobby. The view was that if you 'just' collect and you are not part of a community of collectors that you socialise with, your engagement can be dominated by the actual act of purchasing to the exclusion of all else. As for the clamness of glossy collectors - yes, they do seem a rather contented lot. Perhaps with the accuracy issue off the table there is less to argue about. I have heard it argued that glossy collecting is a different hobby which might mean it attracts a different type of person. It would appear to be a hobby that contains both the cheapest and dearest sets so maybe there is more room for everyone whereas matte figures tend to be closer in price. .

Clamness of glossy collectors should of course be calmness. My eyesight is failing. Yesterday I tried to sell my soul to santa.