Whats so great about first legion and whys so expensive??? (2 Viewers)

We would like things (and military miniatures) to be less expensive than they are but that isn't the reality. Quality doesn't come cheap and if you don't like to pay the price, then there are other options.
 
tryfon said:
First Legion have great figures but crazy prices, becoming affordable , these are made in China
and I understand need to make profit , but made in China they can be $20 cheaper each figure,
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I am not a pro-FL and anti-KnC collector or vice versa, but the fact is, as a model painter I am, that I would need "X" time to paint a figure or vehicle in KnC style and probably "3X" time to do in the FL style, hope it helps.
 
FirstLegion said:
I won't speak about quality, but the obvious answer as to why our figures are priced higher than figures from other companies is that ours cost us quite a bit more to make (multiples more). , on the contrary they generally find them inexpensive when compared to figures of similar sculpting and painting quality. Generally speaking, it's people who don't collect our figures who talk about the price. I believe this is one of the reasons why pricing conversations occur more often in other sections of the forum than they do in the First Legion section.

As for Mike's factually incorrect comment of "20% higher than $50", I'll only say that right now in our active catalog there are around 240 figure sets that are priced at $50 or less that can be purchased today. I guess he either must have overlooked those ones or we do a terrible job communicating and marketing ourselves for the perception to be that all of our figures are $60 each. :rolleyes2: (Oh, and there are another 75 sets that are only 10% over $50 and tens more sets that are multi figure that average well below mike's perceived price so we won't hold it against him!)

One thing is for sure, this thread should no doubt be interesting....{eek3}{sm4}

Best,

Matt
First Legion Ltd
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"I rarely if ever hear our customers complaining that our figures are too expensive..." I find that statement very hard to believe as almost everyone I have ever talked to about FL it is normally the first thing they say! but what I think you mean is that you believe you get good value for the quality of the item. I have your Stalingrad factory and it wonderful and not cheap but I thought it was good value.
 
I pay more to get my kits painted but they are custom one of a kind and I might have only 3 or 4 done a year.FL prices are very good for the quality but what stops me from collecting them are that the ranges are large and would cost (for me) too much to maintain.Also they are not one offs which I like the uniqueness of.
Mark
 
tryfon said:
First Legion have great figures but crazy prices, becoming affordable , these are made in China
and I understand need to make profit , but made in China they can be $20 cheaper each figure,
Click to expand...

Sure they could be cheaper as our Mass Battle figure series shows. But for our normal quality figures, they are very reasonably priced relative to the quality that they are. If you want $49 figures as you said in the other thread, you really should buy figures from other companies that are in your price range for what you are comfortable with. But it sounds like you want First Legion quality at that lower pricing and that's just not going to happen. Heck, I'd love a Porsche for the price of a Nissan, but that ain't happening either. :)

As for Zulucollector, first off you are quoting me from what, 5 years ago? But generally speaking, the same holds true, we rarely get complaints on pricing, we get far more praise on quality. Our goal has never been to make the most affordable figures, several other companies do that. Our goal has always been to make the best figures we can make and price them at a fair price point. These days, the quality difference between our figures and figures twice as expensive such as those coming out of Russia is pretty negligible. So when viewed from that perspective, our figures remain incredibly affordable for what you get.
 
FirstLegion said:
I won't speak about quality, but the obvious answer as to why our figures are priced higher than figures from other companies is that ours cost us quite a bit more to make (multiples more).
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I believe that we have to assume that painting is the one aspect of TS-manufacturing that's truly labor-intensive, and, therefore, a principle factor in cost and pricing. First Legion figure sets exhibit a style that employs a lot of shading and myriad color combinations, certainly more so than most figures from its competitors. If you like that style, then it's gonna cost you. I guess what I'm trying to say is that FL cost more because it's paint-related, production values are higher. This seems kind of obvious, and I wouldn't think that such a fact should be a great source of controversy among collectors.

-Moe
 
This is one of the closest comparisons I could find:

http://www.kingandcountry.com/lying-prone-bren-gunner-p-2538.html
http://www.firstlegionltd.com/DAK033.aspx

The price difference is roughly $20, but this fluctuates often. While K&C started at around $25 and has gone up by $20, FL started at around $50 and has gone up by $15. While the decision used to be between 1 FL figure and 2 K&C figures, it is now a much closer ratio. While I still buy a few K&C figures, FL often wins out because of its quality and interesting subjects.
 
Napoleon1er said:
This is one of the closest comparisons I could find:

http://www.kingandcountry.com/lying-prone-bren-gunner-p-2538.html
http://www.firstlegionltd.com/DAK033.aspx

The price difference is roughly $20, but this fluctuates often. While K&C started at around $25 and has gone up by $20, FL started at around $50 and has gone up by $15. While the decision used to be between 1 FL figure and 2 K&C figures, it is now a much closer ratio. While I still buy a few K&C figures, FL often wins out because of its quality and interesting subjects.
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First Legion didn't start out at 50.00, their first release of Bavarians were 35.00 each if I am not mistaken. I recently came into several of them in a collection I bought and they look virtually nothing like the current First Legion figures, the paint jobs on the current figures are far, far superior. The company, like most companies evolves and improves the product as time goes on, it's the nature of the business.

So look at how far First Legion has come since those first Bavarians; as others have said, if you want high end paint jobs, you will have to pay for it.

I attended the Long Island Figure show last weekend and there were four sellers there with various Russian figures priced at double to triple the price of First Legion figures.

Sorry; they are nice, but not that nice. That said, plenty of people were buying them in addition to First Legion; in the end, the buying choice is entirely on the collector, which is how it should be.
 
FirstLegion said:
Sure they could be cheaper as our Mass Battle figure series shows. But for our normal quality figures, they are very reasonably priced relative to the quality that they are. If you want $49 figures as you said in the other thread, you really should buy figures from other companies that are in your price range for what you are comfortable with. But it sounds like you want First Legion quality at that lower pricing and that's just not going to happen. Heck, I'd love a Porsche for the price of a Nissan, but that ain't happening either. :)

As for Zulucollector, first off you are quoting me from what, 5 years ago? But generally speaking, the same holds true, we rarely get complaints on pricing, we get far more praise on quality. Our goal has never been to make the most affordable figures, several other companies do that. Our goal has always been to make the best figures we can make and price them at a fair price point. These days, the quality difference between our figures and figures twice as expensive such as those coming out of Russia is pretty negligible. So when viewed from that perspective, our figures remain incredibly affordable for what you get.
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Something I say over and over is that when I open a First Legion box I am almost never disappointed, and in fact, most of the time I am stunned. This morning I opened MED021 Jean - Comte de Roucy at Agincourt 1415. I was really on the fence about whether I wanted to add him to my collection, but after opening the box and taking him out I am thrilled. I truly believe the Agincourt line is the most underrated. The detailing and accuracy of the heraldry is amazing. The same is true for the weapons and armor.

I have started studying armor after reading Christian Cameron's "Long Sword" series. What amazes me is how many minute details that FL get right. Things like the slope of the bascinet that most armor reproduction companies get wrong. I also stumbled on a story of whether knights wore kettle helms or did only common men-at-arms use them. The main piece of evidence that kettle helms were part of a not only a golden spurred knight's kit, but royal kit was about the king of France in the Holy Land regretting he did not bring his (or it was damaged or lost) and one of his retainers loaning him his favorite kettle helm. FL has a great example of a French knight in fleur de lis surcoat in his kettle helmet. There is also a ton of this in their Glory of Rome series, but I will not belabor my point.

While many manufacturers with less detail in their figures and vehicles and less realistic painting styles, also usually give us what I call "representative history." That is not what I want to spend my money on in this hobby. What I find with FL is that I get realistic historical figures and vehicles that are accurate for the specific place and time they are intended.

So, I personally think that with the research, the paint quality and the casting/build quality, FL is a bargain.

Just my $.02.
 
An interesting diccussion but Groundhog Day springs to mind. As a former Wargamer, my collecting habits tend to reflect that former pastime. I still paint and do repairs. My first acquisition from FL was a used French Artillery set with several paint chips. I quickly became aware of the number of layers of paint on a FL model and the quality becomes apparent when one tries to match it with a brush. It is indisputable that FL quality is superior to its cheaper competitors, and arguably of a higher value dollar-for-dollar when measured against other high quality products. And that of course is the point of comparisons...to be objective, like must be compared to like.
I have bought a cheaper brand of Napoleonic figures and found the painting so poor that I needed to repaint, and that cheap price was dearer than a casting. That is my loss - a bad bargain that I would not repeat. But I have acquired 54mm castings from Russia that are superior in detail to most 60mm painted figurines commonly available...and size compatible with those same figures. You see, consistency is a difficult challenge{sm4}. But for $6.00, I get a figure that is a dream to paint (right down to the eyelids and fingernails) and winds up in the same dio with the prepainted collection...and that's a win. :salute::
I have some nice FL figures that include the Death of Lannes, the shaving Hussar and Baron Marbot, and will soon be joined by the jaunty camp follower ^&cool. However, my rather large collection of multiples would not have been achievable at FL prices {eek3}. That's an easily and objectively measured fact. It is however not a criticism. That I have never owned a Porsche or a BMW does not lessen my appreciation of fine motor cars :cool:. It's just that my MO for cars frees up the capital needed for my chosen passion.
I don't need other people to adopt my habit to confirm my choice of method though. My method is my method and I have no reason to doubt. Having recently sold early purchases for current prices, I have satisfied myself about the theory of investment value in collecting. I am free to enjoy the hobby without doubt.
Yet I see in threads like this a sad cry for sameness in preference as if the authors cannot be free to enjoy the hobby unless everyone's habits are identical. Unfortunately for those so afflicted, the happier ending of that cult film will not eventuate because beauty will remain the measure of the individual eye...purely subjective. And because subjectivity also governs the designer, no product will ever enjoy universal appeal...it's just fact; no more and no less.
Let go, and enjoy. Have a great time collecting {sm4}. Oh yes, before I forget; Treefrog still has some great Napoleonic cavalry in FL at less than it's lower quality competition's prices.
 
Quality comes at a price and not only in toy soldiers.

Electronics
Cars
Furnitures. (Display case)
Food
Houses
Services... etc.
That would be great if every FL or K&C. would sell for 1$ a piece, but that only happens in my dreams.

I love FL and other makers , and will continue to support their products as long as my wallet can.

Serge
 
King Tiger II said:
Quality comes at a price and not only in toy soldiers.

Electronics
Cars
Furnitures. (Display case)
Food
Houses
Services... etc.
That would be great if every FL or K&C. would sell for 1$ a piece, but that only happens in my dreams.

I love FL and other makers , and will continue to support their products as long as my wallet can.

Serge
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I collect mainly K & C, but some First Legion, I would say the quality is better, they do not have as many historical 'errors' shall we say and seem to keep their price more. This is my opinion, have also found a happy medium as well, with Thomas Gunn, the Roman range is outstanding and the winter Paras I find match in with the K & C Battle of the Bulge range, while they make a great diorama on their own. The Luftwaffe and RAF ranges also work through with the K & C planes. While at a reasonable price.
 
It would be difficult to improve on the quality of figures like these. Comparable figures from AeroArt would probably cost at least twice the price.

General Orlov-Denisov from the Napoleonic Range

IMG_2004.JPG

French Soldiers Playing Cards from the Napoleonic Range

IMG_2003.JPG

Prussian Infantry from the Seven Years War Range

IMG_2002.JPG
 
For a cheap 20$ plastic figure, paint job can be something like 50% of the overall cost (hypothetical exemple).
But as soon as you are asking for a better paint job up to a 'museum' quality one, it is the paint job that will drive the cost up. It will be something like 95-99% of the overall cost.










jazzeum said:
It would be difficult to improve on the quality of figures like these. Comparable figures from AeroArt would probably cost at least twice the price.

General Orlov-Denisov from the Napoleonic Range

View attachment 202691

French Soldiers Playing Cards from the Napoleonic Range

View attachment 202692

Prussian Infantry from the Seven Years War Range

View attachment 202693
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And if you find them to expensive, you can do like I did in the last three years and paint !
This last guy took me more than 150 hours. Do you think he should sell for 50$ ?
image.jpegimage.jpeg
 
Better quality is always available at a higher price. Many Russian figures are far more expensive than FL figures and are of better quality. The key question is how much quality is necessary for the application. A large diorama does not require the highest level of quality to be effective. The overall presentation distracts from the quality of the individual figures; thus the added cost of the very best figures is wasted IMO. The smaller 1/32 Russian figures have superb detail , which is difficult to percieve by ageing eyes. My highest quality figures are 90mm so I can at least see and appreciate the finest details. Plus the larger figures make a far more impressive display of individual figures or small scenes of several figures in combat.
 
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