Which is the most accurate M26 Pershing; Figarti or TCS? (1 Viewer)

[OzDigger]

Aerial photography has measured objests in photographic images accuratly since WWI. I have accurate measurements of the FOV M26 in the photo. The image in the photo is 50% the size of the FOV model; thus all the M26's in the photo are 50% of the actual size. Multiply by X2 and you have the actual size of each M26 within a reasonable accuracy of +/- 1/16 inch.

I agree some scale armor manufacturers have made the odd sized vehicle over the years; but of late there has been a trend to larger scales. The most recent example is the K&C M4A3E8 line of armor wihich is acknowledged to be 1/28 scale, by intention not accident. TCS has always made larger scale armor and has been criticized for it repeatedly. The TCS Stug III and Jagdpanther are both 1/28 scale by actual measurement. I find the trend to larger scales of interest and I am trying to discover the reason for it, out of intellectual curiosity; not the desire to hunt witches!

A 68mm high model of the average male height of 5'9" is 1/25.7 scale; which works very well with 1/25 scale Tamiya armor. I have posted many photos; from WWII and of models, showing the compatibility that is well within the range of human size variability.

I've already told you the 138 inch width for an M 26 is based on the track width not the hull width. You started with a guesstimate of the FOV M26 size in the photo and exacerbate that error by measuring the width of the hull in the photo instead of the tracks, that you couldn't see anyway. The method you used is quite useless as is evident by your assertion that the FOV M26 is actually 1/30 scale not 1/32. As for some models growing lately, not the first time that's happened. Most likely it's to better match their figures, if you're THAT interested, why not email the owners about the matter.

 

[katana]

OZ Digger' if you read what I said my measurement of the FOV M26 is directly from a model I have.
The photograph merely confirms measurement data I already have. My FOV M26 measures 4.5 inches wide. The FOV M26 in the photo laser print measures 2.250; indicating a reduction of .5. A multiplication of x2 equals 4.5; which is what the FOV M26 measures across the top deck.

The Figarti M26 is 5 inches wide based on information provided by a distributor. The photo print of the Figarti M26 verifies this measurement; as it is 2.5 inches wide measured across the top deck. Multiply by X2 to get the actual size. I am hopeful somone will provide actual measurements of the various models; however I am confident of the validity of the scales I have calculated from the photo print; that are confirmed by the actual measurement of my FOV M26 1/30 scale model.

 

[OzDigger]

View attachment 188555

The photo measures 50% of actual size of the models. The scales can be calculated as 2X the size of the photo.

TCS 1/26 scale=========Figarti 1/27.6 scale==============FOV 1/30.3 scale Accuracy +/- .5

M26 actual size 138 inches wide X 340 inches long. Thanks again for the excellent photos MGW. The crop factor is a perfect .5 as near as I can measure allowing the calculation of the scales from measurement of the photos.

In an earlier post on this thread you said you had a 1/24 RC FOV M26 and had measurements for a 1/32 FOV scale model, you didn't actually say you had a FOV 1/32 scale model M26 tank. Subsequently you provided the above photo as some sort of proof that the FOV model was actually 1/30 scale despite saying earlier in this thread that the Figarti model is also 1/30 scale. And despite the Figarti model being obviously larger than the FOV version in the photo. Now that you admit to having a FOV 1/32 model M26, why don't you turn that sucker upside down, measure the track width and give us some actual facts regarding the scale rather than providing contradictory statements and provocative opinions which are clearly annoying several forum members.

 

[mgw]

I originally posted these pictures and just measured the TCS, Figarti and FOV Pershings. To calculate scale I used dimensions of the Pershing given and defined at

http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/m26pershing.html

Dimensions:

TCS: width 5.13" scale 1/27 length 8.81" scale 1/28 avg scale 1/28

Figarti: width 4.88" scale 1/28 length 8.25 scale 1/30 avg scale 1/29

FOV: width 4.38" scale 1/32 length 7.50" scale 1/33 avg scale 1/32

Hope this helps the discussion - Mike

 

[OzDigger]

Thanks Mike, it sure does help. And thanks for the photos you've supplied in the past :salute::

 

[katana]

The 138 inch width of an M26 includes the skirts/sand shields; which are outside of the tracks. My FOV M26 measures 4.499 inches between the outer sides of the skirts using a digital caliper. My 1/24 FOV M26 measures 5.626 between the outer sides of the skirts. I get the same number if I measure in the same location from either the top or the bottom.The smaller FOV M26 is larger than 1/32 according to my measurements of my sample it is 1/30.6 the average of all three dimensions; Length including the gun, Width including the skirts and Height to the top of the cupola.

MGW; thank you for the data, I was really suprised at how large the Figarti M26 is. Your excellent photos indicated this progression to larger scales by all three manufacturers. Measurements of the photo gave a reasonable approximation of the scale differences; your data allows more accurate calculations. FYI the data I use on the M26 measurements is from Tank-Encyclopedia.Com which is an excellent website for armor research.
Length with gun forward 340 inches, Length without gun 249 inches, Width 138 inches, Height over the cupola 109 inches and firing height 78 inches.

 

[katana]

In an earlier post on this thread you said you had a 1/24 RC FOV M26 and had measurements for a 1/32 FOV scale model, you didn't actually say you had a FOV 1/32 scale model M26 tank. Subsequently you provided the above photo as some sort of proof that the FOV model was actually 1/30 scale despite saying earlier in this thread that the Figarti model is also 1/30 scale. And despite the Figarti model being obviously larger than the FOV version in the photo. Now that you admit to having a FOV 1/32 model M26, why don't you turn that sucker upside down, measure the track width and give us some actual facts regarding the scale rather than providing contradictory statements and provocative opinions which are clearly annoying several forum members.

I have both a 1/32 (1/30) and a 1/24 FOV M26. The photos were provided by MGW as part of a discussion about which manufacturers model is the most accurate. MGW's contension was that the FOV was the most accurate of the three and provided the photographs in support of his argument. I than tried to determine the scale of the respective models by measuring the photograph after determining by actual measurement the crop factor of the photograph and thus the multiplication factor to return the images to actual size. I found it amazing the range of sizes considered 1/30 scale. Truth in advertising obviously does not obtain in the Toy Soldier hobby.

 

[uksubs]

I originally posted these pictures and just measured the TCS, Figarti and FOV Pershings. To calculate scale I used dimensions of the Pershing given and defined at

http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/m26pershing.html

Dimensions:

TCS: width 5.13" scale 1/27 length 8.81" scale 1/28 avg scale 1/28

Figarti: width 4.88" scale 1/28 length 8.25 scale 1/30 avg scale 1/29

FOV: width 4.38" scale 1/32 length 7.50" scale 1/33 avg scale 1/32

Hope this helps the discussion - Mike

Thank very much for the "Facts " Mike :salute:: so we now know that the FOV. Pershing tank is Not 1/30 scale and the Figarti tank Not 1/28 scale ^&cool

 

[uksubs]

I have both a 1/32 (1/30) and a 1/24 FOV M26. The photos were provided by MGW as part of a discussion about which manufacturers model is the most accurate. MGW's contension was that the FOV was the most accurate of the three and provided the photographs in support of his argument. I than tried to determine the scale of the respective models by measuring the photograph after determining by actual measurement the crop factor of the photograph and thus the multiplication factor to return the images to actual size. I found it amazing the range of sizes considered 1/30 scale. Truth in advertising obviously does not obtain in the Toy Soldier hobby.

I'm shocked that you being a engineer working with measurements could come out with bold statements about theses tanks and get it wrong to be honest just show like companies people can get there measurements wrong :rolleyes2:

 

[uksubs]

The Figarti M26 is 5 inches wide based on information provided by a distributor. The photo print of the Figarti M26 verifies this measurement; as it is 2.5 inches wide measured across the top deck. Multiply by X2 to get the actual size. I am hopeful somone will provide actual measurements of the various models; however I am confident of the validity of the scales I have calculated from the photo print; that are confirmed by the actual measurement of my FOV M26 1/30 scale model.

The fact is the FOV tank is 1/30 scale {eek3}like it say on the box :rolleyes2:
TCS: width 5.13" scale 1/27 length 8.81" scale 1/28 avg scale 1/28

Figarti: width 4.88" scale 1/28 length 8.25 scale 1/30 avg scale 1/29

FOV: width 4.38" scale 1/32 length 7.50" scale 1/33 avg scale 1/32{eek3}

Hope this helps the discussion - Mike

 

[OzDigger]

The 138 inch width of an M26 includes the skirts/sand shields; which are outside of the tracks. My FOV M26 measures 4.499 inches between the outer sides of the skirts using a digital caliper. My 1/24 FOV M26 measures 5.626 between the outer sides of the skirts. I get the same number if I measure in the same location from either the top or the bottom.The smaller FOV M26 is larger than 1/32 according to my measurements of my sample it is 1/30.6 the average of all three dimensions; Length including the gun, Width including the skirts and Height to the top of the cupola.

MGW; thank you for the data, I was really suprised at how large the Figarti M26 is. Your excellent photos indicated this progression to larger scales by all three manufacturers. Measurements of the photo gave a reasonable approximation of the scale differences; your data allows more accurate calculations. FYI the data I use on the M26 measurements is from Tank-Encyclopedia.Com which is an excellent website for armor research.
Length with gun forward 340 inches, Length without gun 249 inches, Width 138 inches, Height over the cupola 109 inches and firing height 78 inches.

If you measured it correctly, how did you get it so wrong? Anyway, I'm with Mike on this, wherever he measured it. I still find it "unusual" that you are so repetitious about correct scale sizing {sm0} Yet you're happy to display different scales together ^&confuse

 

[katana]

OZ Digger. I display different scales together because that is what I have to work with and obtain a realistic result i.e. soldiers heads not above the AFVs deck. I have posted many WWII photos and photos of 68mm figures with 1/25 scale models; both demonstrating the correct size relationship of figures to AFV's. I apply an old engineering trueism here; what ever works!

I did not get the measurements wrong the spread of scales in rounded numbers range from FOV at 1/31 to TCS at 1/27 and Figarti in between. Two different people using two different measurement methods and locations will get two differnt results within a range of error. I think I specified my measurment at +/- .5 scale. I also acknowledged that measurements derived from the photographs would be relativly not absolutly accurate. You contended that measurments from the photographs were impossible.

MGW's contention supported by his photographs and his measurements, has been validated. The FOV is more accurate than the Figarti or TCS M26. The question poised by the thread; was which was more accurate, the Figarti or the TCS M26, the FOV was not part of the evaluation as proposed. None of the three M26s evaluated are accurate as to size; as none of them conform to their advertised scale.

The Figarti is superior to the TCS in both detail and scale accuracy when only polystone products of 1/30 advertised scale are considered as originaly proposed.

 

[katana]

I'm shocked that you being a engineer working with measurements could come out with bold statements about theses tanks and get it wrong to be honest just show like companies people can get there measurements wrong :rolleyes2:

None of the three M26s measured are 1/30 scale. The statement may be bold but it is true.

The purpose of this thread was to establish which was the more accurate model the Figarti or TCS M26. Neither is accurate as to scale, since neither is 1/30 by both my and MGW's measurments.
The TCS M26 has a major detail error in the length of the turret relative to the hull; as shown in MGWs excellent photos. The Figarti is thus the most accurate of the two polystone M26 models!

 

[katana]

The fact is the FOV tank is 1/30 scale {eek3}like it say on the box :rolleyes2:
TCS: width 5.13" scale 1/27 length 8.81" scale 1/28 avg scale 1/28

Figarti: width 4.88" scale 1/28 length 8.25 scale 1/30 avg scale 1/29

FOV: width 4.38" scale 1/32 length 7.50" scale 1/33 avg scale 1/32{eek3}

Hope this helps the discussion - Mike

Neil; the FOV box stipulates 1/32 scale. No where in the quote you posted do I say the box says 1/30. My example is 1/30 scale; which is why I said ( My FOV 1/30 Scale M26)!

 

[katana]

OZ Digger; I am sorry that you find the discussion of model scale and accuracy annoying. I find it of great interest and I enjoy discussing the technical side of the hobby. I appreciate inputs to the conversation that allow me to learn new and interesting details about the hobby. I am relativley new to the hobby and just joined the Forum in 2010. I come to Toy Soldiers from scale armor modeling. My old eyes and hand eye coordination no longer permit 1/35 modeling; so I moved to 1/25; which I can still manage at my age. I have never been good at painting figures, so I was delighted to discover that 68mm Toy Soldier figures are reasonably size compatable with 1/25 scale armor. I thus have the best of both worlds; accurate 1/25 scale models and excellent figures from TCS and K&C to display together. I am currently putting together a display of a Hausser 1/25 scale 10.5 cm SK 18 long range gun with TCS figures. I will post photos when it is complete.

 

[maddadicus]

I originally posted these pictures and just measured the TCS, Figarti and FOV Pershings. To calculate scale I used dimensions of the Pershing given and defined at

http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/m26pershing.html

Dimensions:

TCS: width 5.13" scale 1/27 length 8.81" scale 1/28 avg scale 1/28

Figarti: width 4.88" scale 1/28 length 8.25 scale 1/30 avg scale 1/29

FOV: width 4.38" scale 1/32 length 7.50" scale 1/33 avg scale 1/32

Hope this helps the discussion - Mike

This reasonably reinforces what most of us reckoned looking at the photo..pretty obvious that by sight ,the above " scales ", fit.. Michael

 

[katana]

Correction; FOV M26 width=4.499 not 4.449. 138/4.99 =1/30.67

 

[katana]

This reasonably reinforces what most of us reckoned looking at the photo..pretty obvious that by sight ,the above " scales ", fit.. Michael

I agree; the question remains though, why the large deviations from 1/30 scale. Figarti has been remarkably consistant in scale accuracy in the past. A new subcontractor perhaps? TCS has always been at a larger scale. I have only one TCS AFV that comes close to 1/30 scale; the Arnhem Tiger I circa 2008. The others are 1/27 and 1/28 scale. I do not really care what scale an AFV is, as long as I know prior to purchase. I hate surprises and the return shipping is very expensive!

 

[uksubs]

Correction; FOV M26 width=4.499 not 4.449. 138/4.99 =1/30.67

FOV: width 4.38" scale 1/32 length 7.50" scale 1/33 avg scale 1/32
:rolleyes2:

 

[uksubs]

Neil; the FOV box stipulates 1/32 scale. No where in the quote you posted do I say the box says 1/30. My example is 1/30 scale; which is why I said ( My FOV 1/30 Scale M26)!

How can your FOV tank be 1/30 when Mike measured it to be 1/32 scale^&confuse