Which is the most accurate M26 Pershing; Figarti or TCS? (1 Viewer)

[katana]

Neil; did you make these measurements yourself ? Where and how did you make the measurements and with what measuring instrument? The length measurment is incorrect as it does not include the gun! The length of my FOV M26 is 11 inches including the gun; not a very effective tank without a gun. The M26 overall is 340.5 inches/11 inches=1/30.6. No height measurement provided either; tanks are not two dimensional vehicles. The M26 height over the cupola is 109.4 inches. My FOV M26 measures 3.635 inches high; 109.4/3.625=1/30.01. Width of M26 over sand shields; not track width as Oz Digger suggested, 138.3 inches/4.499=1/30.7 Average of all three dimensions=1/30.43. Significantly larger than 1/32 scale and the margin of error of +/- .5! I am using the M26 data at afvdb.50megs.com/usa/m26pershing reccomended by MGW in the interest of consistancy and accuracy.

Two differences between MGW's measurements and mine of the FOV M26 may be that 1. He measured track width per OZ Diggers suggestion; which would be a lower width than is correct as the sand shields add to the width. 2. His FOV tank may be the first issue, where mine is the last. Erosion of the mold or new tooling/modified tooling between the two models production, could account for some dimensional differences.

I look forward to seeing a complete set of data from your FOV M26; which will than provide three sources that can be averaged to increase sample accuracy.

 

[uksubs]

Neil; did you make these measurements yourself ? Where and how did you make the measurements and with what measuring instrument? The length measurment is incorrect as it does not include the gun! The length of my FOV M26 is 11 inches including the gun; not a very effective tank without a gun. The M26 overall is 340.5 inches/11 inches=1/30.6. No height measurement provided either; tanks are not two dimensional vehicles. The M26 height over the cupola is 109.4 inches. My FOV M26 measures 3.635 inches high; 109.4/3.625=1/30.01. Width of M26 over sand shields; not track width as Oz Digger suggested, 138.3 inches/4.499=1/30.7 Average of all three dimensions=1/30.43. Significantly larger than 1/32 scale and the margin of error of +/- .5! I am using the M26 data at afvdb.50megs.com/usa/m26pershing reccomended by MGW in the interest of consistancy and accuracy.

Two differences between MGW's measurements and mine of the FOV M26 may be that 1. He measured track width per OZ Diggers suggestion; which would be a lower width than is correct as the sand shields add to the width. 2. His FOV tank may be the first issue, where mine is the last. Erosion of the mold or new tooling/modified tooling between the two models production, could account for some dimensional differences.

I look forward to seeing a complete set of data from your FOV M26; which will than provide three sources that can be averaged to increase sample accuracy.

To be honest I don't know why we're even discussing the FOV. Tank as it to small to work with 1/30 scale soldiers and to me it a no brainier to buy the Figarti Pershing tank as it 1/30 scale end of story for me ^&grin

 

[katana]

To be honest I don't know why we're even discussing the FOV. Tank as it to small to work with 1/30 scale soldiers and to me it a no brainier to buy the Figarti Pershing tank as it 1/30 scale end of story for me ^&grin

The Figarti M26 measures 5 inches wide and 11.75 inches long or about 1/28 scale. 1/30 scale figures may work well if they are the 68mm size rather than the 60mm size or if you perfer TCS 1/30 or FL 1/30.

 

[uksubs]

I agree; the question remains though, why the large deviations from 1/30 scale. Figarti has been remarkably consistant in scale accuracy in the past. A new subcontractor perhaps? TCS has always been at a larger scale. I have only one TCS AFV that comes close to 1/30 scale; the Arnhem Tiger I circa 2008. The others are 1/27 and 1/28 scale. I do not really care what scale an AFV is, as long as I know prior to purchase. I hate surprises and the return shipping is very expensive!

What are you on about the Figarti Pershing is 1/29 scale so how can the FOV. Tank be 1/30 scale ^&confuse

 

[katana]

The figarti M26 measurements are 11.750 inches long including the barrel and 5 inches wide including the sand shields. I do not have an accurate heigt measurement. M26 length with barrel is 340.5 inches/11.75 inches=1/28.9. M26 width over sand shields is138.3 inches/5 inches=1/27.6.
28.9+27.6=56.5/2=1/28.25 average scale in 2 dimensions. 1/28.25 round to 1/28 not 1/29. 60mm figures will be dwarfed by a 1/28 M26. Call a dealer and get the dimensions; thats what I did. I am sure someone at Hobby Bunker has that information; they are the US importer.

 

[OzDigger]

OZ Digger; I am sorry that you find the discussion of model scale and accuracy annoying. I find it of great interest and I enjoy discussing the technical side of the hobby. I appreciate inputs to the conversation that allow me to learn new and interesting details about the hobby. I am relativley new to the hobby and just joined the Forum in 2010. I come to Toy Soldiers from scale armor modeling. My old eyes and hand eye coordination no longer permit 1/35 modeling; so I moved to 1/25; which I can still manage at my age. I have never been good at painting figures, so I was delighted to discover that 68mm Toy Soldier figures are reasonably size compatable with 1/25 scale armor. I thus have the best of both worlds; accurate 1/25 scale models and excellent figures from TCS and K&C to display together. I am currently putting together a display of a Hausser 1/25 scale 10.5 cm SK 18 long range gun with TCS figures. I will post photos when it is complete.

I am interested in detail and scale and I was a regular contributor to threads on these matters from early days on the forum. If I found the subject annoying I wouldn't bother to read such threads or take part it them. That said, they're largely academic having little bearing on the popularity of a figure or a model in the Toy Soldier market as most collectors favour 'looks' over 'correctness'. What does annoy me, and many others, is when members start threads that seem meant to promote disharmony rather than enjoyment of the hobby.

 

[uksubs]

The figarti M26 measurements are 11.750 inches long including the barrel and 5 inches wide including the sand shields. I do not have an accurate heigt measurement. M26 length with barrel is 340.5 inches/11.75 inches=1/28.9. M26 width over sand shields is138.3 inches/5 inches=1/27.6.
28.9+27.6=56.5/2=1/28.25 average scale in 2 dimensions. 1/28.25 round to 1/28 not 1/29. 60mm figures will be dwarfed by a 1/28 M26. Call a dealer and get the dimensions; thats what I did. I am sure someone at Hobby Bunker has that information; they are the US importer.

When did measuring the gun barrel come into it ^&confuse Also are you saying Mike measurements are wrong then !? I have the measurements for figarti Pershing thanks ,but wonder what your game is keep saying the figarti tank not 1/29 scale when it been proven it is ^&confuse
Think you need to stop flogging that dead horse now

 

[uksubs]

'. What does annoy me, and many others, is when members start threads that seem meant to promote disharmony rather than enjoyment of the hobby.

Well said ,also why is it always aimed at Figarti and FL :rolleyes2:^&confuse:wink2:

 

[katana]

I am interested in detail and scale and I was a regular contributor to threads on these matters from early days on the forum. If I found the subject annoying I wouldn't bother to read such threads or take part it them. That said, they're largely academic having little bearing on the popularity of a figure or a model in the Toy Soldier market as most collectors favour 'looks' over 'correctness'. What does annoy me, and many others, is when members start threads that seem meant to promote disharmony rather than enjoyment of the hobby.

A pleasure to read your reply OZ Digger. My interest in postingf analytical threads is to promote improvements of the Toy Soldier products not disharmony. The reason for out of scale and inaccurate models is poor design and lack of attention to detail. The customer needs to be more demanding if the products are to improve. The Forum is a means to make both collectors and manufacturers aware of problems and request improvements; especially in light of todays prices.

I do not just criticize in my posts. Many posts praise manufacturers who produce excellent products. Just this morning I posted on the WB thread about the compliance with the Rules of Proportion by WB and the excellent proportions and scale accuracy of their Fallschirmjagers. I evaluated figures from 7 different companies and found that 4 of the 7 produced figures with accurate proportions. I have also been critical of WB not correctly labeling the scale of their figures in the past.

I try to be balanced and fair in my posts and support my contensions with photos and documentation where possible. I do not intend to be disharmonious or spoil anyones joy in collecting.

 

[katana]

Well said ,also why is it always aimed at Figarti and FL :rolleyes2:^&confuse:wink2:

Neil; I have also posted negative observation about, TCS, FOV, K&C, WB as well as Figarti and FL.
I have posted positive observations about the products of these same companies.

No manufacturers products are all good or all bad and some are very good i.e. Figarti Jagdpanzer IV, TCS Jagdpanther, K&C M4A3E8, WB Fallschirmjager, FL quality and scale compliance etc.

 

[sammy719]

A pleasure to read your reply OZ Digger. My interest in postingf analytical threads is to promote improvements of the Toy Soldier products not disharmony. The reason for out of scale and inaccurate models is poor design and lack of attention to detail. The customer needs to be more demanding if the products are to improve. The Forum is a means to make both collectors and manufacturers aware of problems and request improvements; especially in light of todays prices.

I do not just criticize in my posts. Many posts praise manufacturers who produce excellent products. Just this morning I posted on the WB thread about the compliance with the Rules of Proportion by WB and the excellent proportions and scale accuracy of their Fallschirmjagers. I evaluated figures from 7 different companies and found that 4 of the 7 produced figures with accurate proportions. I have also been critical of WB not correctly labeling the scale of their figures in the past.

I try to be balanced and fair in my posts and support my contensions with photos and documentation where possible. I do not intend to be disharmonious or spoil anyones joy in collecting.

This will be my last comment on your scale wars Katana as a member here now since 2007 I've been down this lonngggg, lonely road before, here goes......what you measure in one scale, someone may measure differently, what you think is perfect in scale another disagrees totally, also what you think is over priced anther think you pay for what you get, no collector wants someone to constantly remind them if they buy A,B,C the scale is wrong and you should buy this or that as it's much better for scale purposes, where all big boys here and think most all have a general idea of how the scale size works with the metal 1:30th world, it becomes contentious and over baring when the 4.5 million threads on the same topic are put in wash/spin/repeat, my advice is contact the manufacturer directly to voice your concerns over and infractions you deem unworthy of their productions, this is a open forum to discuss all things toy soldiers but when the point becomes overkill over the same topic week in and week it gets a wee bit tiresome, but have at it, as they say no one is forcing me to read your threads, so I'll try and revert back to the more positive side of the hobby as I posted to you in another scale thread, enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...Sammy

 

[uksubs]

This will be my last comment on your scale wars Katana as a member here now since 2007 I've been down this lonngggg, lonely road before, here goes......what you measure in one scale, someone may measure differently, what you think is perfect in scale another disagrees totally, also what you think is over priced anther think you pay for what you get, no collector wants someone to constantly remind them if they buy A,B,C the scale is wrong and you should buy this or that as it's much better for scale purposes, where all big boys here and think most all have a general idea of how the scale size works with the metal 1:30th world, it becomes contentious and over baring when the 4.5 million threads on the same topic are put in wash/spin/repeat, my advice is contact the manufacturer directly to voice your concerns over and infractions you deem unworthy of their productions, this is a open forum to discuss all things toy soldiers but when the point becomes overkill over the same topic week in and week it gets a wee bit tiresome, but have at it, as they say no one is forcing me to read your threads, so I'll try and revert back to the more positive side of the hobby as I posted to you in another scale thread, enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...Sammy

Well said that man :salute::

 

[Arnhemjim]

This will be my last comment on your scale wars Katana as a member here now since 2007 I've been down this lonngggg, lonely road before, here goes......what you measure in one scale, someone may measure differently, what you think is perfect in scale another disagrees totally, also what you think is over priced anther think you pay for what you get, no collector wants someone to constantly remind them if they buy A,B,C the scale is wrong and you should buy this or that as it's much better for scale purposes, where all big boys here and think most all have a general idea of how the scale size works with the metal 1:30th world, it becomes contentious and over baring when the 4.5 million threads on the same topic are put in wash/spin/repeat, my advice is contact the manufacturer directly to voice your concerns over and infractions you deem unworthy of their productions, this is a open forum to discuss all things toy soldiers but when the point becomes overkill over the same topic week in and week it gets a wee bit tiresome, but have at it, as they say no one is forcing me to read your threads, so I'll try and revert back to the more positive side of the hobby as I posted to you in another scale thread, enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...Sammy

Hello Sammy,
While never having met you personally sir, may I say in maritime parlance, "I like the cut of your jib". As is still signaled in both the Royal Navy and the US Navy,"BZ" (BRAVO ZULU), Well Done!. If you are so inclined you might want to glance at the following; http://arnhemjim.blogspot.com/2014/06/its-all-matter-of-scale.html.
Arnhem Jim

 

[sammy719]

Hello Sammy,
While never having met you personally sir, may I say in maritime parlance, "I like the cut of your jib". As is still signaled in both the Royal Navy and the US Navy,"BZ" (BRAVO ZULU), Well Done!. If you are so inclined you might want to glance at the following; http://arnhemjim.blogspot.com/2014/06/its-all-matter-of-scale.html.
Arnhem Jim

Hi Jim, well you know we hail from the Valley of the Sun these days!! I have read your blog on different occasions and find it well documented and very insightful, thanks for posting the link as well...Sammy

 

[katana]

I started this thread in an attempt to determine wihich was the most accurate polystone model M26 prior to purchase. MGW's excellent comparison photos answered most of my questions and concerns.

I determined long ago that asking questions of those more experienced is the best way to learn. I enjoy learning new things and discussing the technical aspects of a hobby. I always considered a forum as a place to have discussions and explore various aspects of subjects of mutual interest.

Some like MGW have assisted my quest for knowledge, some have disparaged it and others have accused me of causing disharmony and unhappiness among the cognocenti! So be it; but my intension was to gain knowledge and I shall continue to do so by asking questions no matter how uncomfortable or annoyed those questions may make some individuals!

 

[OzDigger]

Here's some relevant measurements from the link Mike posted. I found several websites stating width of 138 inches didn't include sandshields, how can the internet be wrong {sm2} Get your rulers out again guys, time to check those models. So much fun over the Easter break. I prefer to use metric units as it results in a more accurate 'mm' measurement, ask any scientist :wink2:


Length without gun, with sandshields and pintle: 249.1"/632.7cm

Gun overhang forward 91.4"/232cm (add to above for overall length)

Width over sandshields: 138.3"/351.3cm

Tread: 110"/279cm

Height over cupola top: 109.4"/277.9cm

Fire height: 78"/200cm (not sure what fire height is, maybe deck/hull height)

Turret ring diameter: 69"/175cm

 

[katana]

The data is accurate and detailed from this website. The numbers I have from a dealer on the Figarti M26 is 5 inches (127mm) wide and 12 inches (304.8mm) long including the barrel; with the barrel forward. I verified those numbers from the dealer by measuring the photo print and they should be within +/- .5.
Using these numbers I get 1/27.6 for width and 1/28.3 for length. Average 1/27.95 or 1/28 in round numbers. The Figarti will go well with TCS, TG and K&C; not with WB or FL IMO.