Why do Yanks always bag the fighting ability of the French? (2 Viewers)

[Mitch]

Jazzeum...

No offence taken and apologies unecessary, I just thought the statement was a bit harsh.
Mitch

 

[jazzeum]

You're probably right. However, I was trying to use it as a contrast (i.e., to lump the countries together) to how American feel about the British (positive) as to how they feel about the French (not too positive).

 

[Scott]

I remember an upswing of jokes about the French during DeGaulle's time in the 1960s when he supported Quebec independence, opposed the US over Vietnam, and dropped France out of NATO command although remaining a member of NATO. Most recently France didn't jump into Iraq with us so you got that "Freedom Fries" joke.

Of course Groundskeeper Willie's line is still funny.

So is comedian Doug Stanhope....

".. Nationalism does nothing but teach you how to hate people that you never met. And all of a sudden you take pride in accomplishments you had no part in whatsoever, and you brag about- and the Americans'll go "**** the French! **** the French, if we hadn't had saved their *** in two World Wars, they'd be speakin' German right now!" And you go, "Oh, was that us?" Was that me and you, Tommy, we saved the French? Jesus! I know I blacked out a little bit after that fourth shot of Jägermeister last night, but I don't remember... I know we went through the Wendy's drive-thru to get one of them "Freschetta" sandwiches that looked so alluring on the commercial, but then we ordered it and realized we had no money, and we had to ditch out before the second window, and those d*****b*gs in line behind us with the bass music probably got our order and we laughed about that. But I don't remember savin' the French. At all! I went through the last ten calls on my cell phone and there's nothin' incoming or outgoing to the French, lookin' for muscle on a project! I checked my pants, there's no mud stains on the knees from where we were garroting Krauts in the trenches at Verdun. I think "we" didn't do anything but watch sports bloopers while we got hammered. I think "we" should shut the **** up!"

 

[Scott]

It might be because the French speak French which many of us HAD to take in Junior High and it lowered our Grade Point Average.

 

[Mitch]

I don't think there is much difference in the views held by the british. We have not been very complimentary about french capabilities
Mitch

You're probably right. However, I was trying to use it as a contrast (i.e., to lump the countries together) to how American feel about the British (positive) as to how they feel about the French (not too positive).

 

[Rob]

I don't think there is much difference in the views held by the british. We have not been very complimentary about french capabilities
Mitch

Very funny you guys are talking about this today. This very morning I walked into my Butchers shop to purchase one of his finest chickens for the roast on the morrow! (ooh I've gone all shakespearian!!:wink2Anyway this guy walks in and ask for some cheese, and without a word of a lie he proceeded to pronounce that no true Englishman would ever buy anything French!. Asked to elaborate he explained that the French were untrust worthy and have and would stab us in the back at any given chance.

And this is the point, there is a feeling in some parts that the French capitulated far too easy in both Wars and left us high and dry, especially around Dunkirk where we lost many men who fought a brave rearguard action. Now I don't hold with this view at all, having studied both Wars I know only too well how much their country suffered, how many men they lost and how the population suffered twice under German invasion. I think the distrust goes back many centuries Agincourt, Waterloo, and the mess HMS Victory left the Redoubtable in at Trafalgar.

There's no doubt Dunkirk was a disaster, but the ordinary Tommy fought very bravely and definitely contributed to the amazing escape that was pulled off. But the Battle of Britain as nothing short of a legendary arse kicking for Goering and his unbeatable Luftwaffe that all nations who took part can be very proud of. And without wanting to start the whole debate up again, I'm afraid it was the British and her Empire that went forward at Alamein and drove back the mighty AK. Now before anyone starts on about resources, the Americans had huge resources at Omaha and no one can deny what a disaster that was, yet no one blames the average GI on the beach that day. All nations suffered victories and reverses during the conflict, thats the nature of War. Even the mighty Napoleon was beaten in the end....by Wellington:wink2:^&grin:salute::

One things for sure, no one nation won the Second World War .

Rob

 

[Rutledge]

...I'm afraid it was the British and her Empire that went forward at Alamein and drove back the mighty AK. Now before anyone starts on about resources, the Americans had huge resources at Omaha and no one can deny what a disaster that was, yet no one blames the average GI on the beach that day.
One things for sure, no one nation won the Second World War .

If you havent already, I recommend reading the book "Army At Dawn". An excellent and well researched account of how unprepared the American Army was before WWII, and how it overcame that deficit and become a first rate fighting machine.

PS: Omaha was very costly but not a disaster. We did eventually take the beach and drive the krauts backwards, after all.

 

[trooper]

Personally I think the main cause of discontent with the French lies with their politicians, an argument that can be levelled at many countries, however with the French their haste to jump into bed with the Germans in the European parliament is a major cause of distrust. from my observations the general attitude in Britain is the French are unliked and the Germans aren't trusted so when you get two such nation states getting cosy it's time to start looking over your shoulder. Trooper

 

[Mitch]

Rutledge...

The book is very interesting but, what does that say about the Kaserine pass. surely, that was underprepared. I always found it remarkable that the two greatest industrial powers the US and USSR were so whofully prepared for the hostilities of 39-45
Mitch

If you havent already, I recommend reading the book "Army At Dawn". An excellent and well researched account of how unprepared the American Army was before WWII, and how it overcame that deficit and become a first rate fighting machine.

PS: Omaha was very costly but not a disaster. We did eventually take the beach and drive the krauts backwards, after all.

 

[Sans Culotte]

It would be worthwhile for some of the forum members to read "That Sweet Enemy; Britain and France: The History of a Love-Hate relationship," by Robert & Isabelle Tombs. Most Americans, especially those who have neither been to France, nor who have any knowledge of the French, seem to take their francophobic cues from the media. Most Americans also have no foreign language skills, either, which would help them to communicate with, and to understand, other nations and their cultures.

Joke: What do you call someone who can speak 3 languages? Tri-lingual.
What do you call someone who can speak 2 languages? Bi- lingual.
What do you call someone who can speak 1 language? American.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Very funny you guys are talking about this today. This very morning I walked into my Butchers shop to purchase one of his finest chickens for the roast on the morrow! (ooh I've gone all shakespearian!!:wink2Anyway this guy walks in and ask for some cheese, and without a word of a lie he proceeded to pronounce that no true Englishman would ever buy anything French!. Asked to elaborate he explained that the French were untrust worthy and have and would stab us in the back at any given chance.

And this is the point, there is a feeling in some parts that the French capitulated far too easy in both Wars and left us high and dry, especially around Dunkirk where we lost many men who fought a brave rearguard action. Now I don't hold with this view at all, having studied both Wars I know only too well how much their country suffered, how many men they lost and how the population suffered twice under German invasion. I think the distrust goes back many centuries Agincourt, Waterloo, and the mess HMS Victory left the Redoubtable in at Trafalgar.

There's no doubt Dunkirk was a disaster, but the ordinary Tommy fought very bravely and definitely contributed to the amazing escape that was pulled off. But the Battle of Britain as nothing short of a legendary arse kicking for Goering and his unbeatable Luftwaffe that all nations who took part can be very proud of. And without wanting to start the whole debate up again, I'm afraid it was the British and her Empire that went forward at Alamein and drove back the mighty AK. Now before anyone starts on about resources, the Americans had huge resources at Omaha and no one can deny what a disaster that was, yet no one blames the average GI on the beach that day. All nations suffered victories and reverses during the conflict, thats the nature of War. Even the mighty Napoleon was beaten in the end....by Wellington:wink2:^&grin:salute::

One things for sure, no one nation won the Second World War .

Rob

I am with you on all of this, Rob...except for one thing...Napoleon lost?! :rolleyes2:

I have to stop watching revisionist movies.

 

[lancer]

I seem to remember Rommel and Yamashita dealing out rather severe defeats to British forces. Rommel was unable to finish the deal, fortunately. Yamashita, on the other hand, handed Britain what has been described as the worst defeat in her long history. If this was meant as an ETO discussion, then ignore the above. -- Al

 

[Rob]

I seem to remember Rommel and Yamashita dealing out rather severe defeats to British forces. Rommel was unable to finish the deal, fortunately. Yamashita, on the other hand, handed Britain what has been described as the worst defeat in her long history. If this was meant as an ETO discussion, then ignore the above. -- Al

The US suffered at Kasserine Pass and a humiliating attack at Pearl Harbour, what does any of this prove???^&confuse

Rob

 

[lancer]

The US suffered at Kasserine Pass and a humiliating attack at Pearl Harbour, what does any of this prove???^&confuse

Rob

Not to underestimate an opponent's capabilities and intentions. -- Al

 

[Rob]

Not to underestimate an opponent's capabilities and intentions. -- Al

Indeed, and preparation, preparation,preparation.

Rob

 

[lancer]

Indeed, and preparation, preparation,preparation.

Rob

Indeed. Maybe we have finally learned this. -- Al

 

[Terp152]

If you havent already, I recommend reading the book "Army At Dawn". An excellent and well researched account of how unprepared the American Army was before WWII, and how it overcame that deficit and become a first rate fighting machine.

PS: Omaha was very costly but not a disaster. We did eventually take the beach and drive the krauts backwards, after all.

Excellent book, read the first two volumes. Emailed the author and he is researching vol 3. Won't be out for another 3 yrs or so. Sorry if off topic.

 

[Martin Tabony]

Indeed. Maybe we have finally learned this. -- Al

I wish that was true! We've got a government cutting back on defence, with no idea of our future commitments!

Martin

 

[jazzeum]

You're probably right. However, I was trying to use it as a contrast (i.e., to lump the countries together) to how American feel about the British (positive) as to how they feel about the French (not too positive).

Since I am somewhat to blame for this veering off, what I was trying to do was point out that both Britain and France suffered reverses in WW I and WW II but Americans have different attitudes about them. Why is that? I posited (and believe this to be the case) that it has less to do with military prowess and more to do about how Americans feel about France and French people in general, not to mention that our heritage derives much more from Anglo-Saxon heritage than Gallic culture.

Again, apologies for causing any offense to British colleagues. That was not the intent.

 

[Sans Culotte]

I taught in public, private, and parochial schools high schools as well as on the college level for over 30 years and it never failed to amaze me how little Americans knew about their own history, let alone anyone else's. At the same time, I found a number of Americans to be quick to pass judgment on others, including the French. I wasn't raised with a sneering regard for the fighting abilities of the French, so that's not a prejudice that I've carried around.