Why not more Modern Fighting Men (and women!)? (1 Viewer)

[Currahee Chris]

The problem for Andy is companies like Forces of Valor which produce excellent quality vehicles from these conflicts in enormous quantities at prices that a polystone vehicle and hand painted white metal figure company cannot compete with, so it is very hard for him to break into this market and make a profit (as opposed to WWII, where he already holds a huge market share).

I'll take any and all bets that Andy's WW2 market share here in the States pales in comparison to Dragon, 21st Century and FoV WW2 releases.

I'll take any and all bets that Modern troops are #2 in sales volume and overall sales dollars here in the States. With FoV and 21st Century getting hooked into the major retailer distribution channels of Target, Wal Mart and Toys R Us, they will continue to dominate the market overall.

Now, that being said, I am even willing to go so far as to say that Modern US troops are outselling WW2 American figures- perhaps not outselling them, but maintaining a close pace. I credit that with the look of the modern fighting forces- who DOESN'T want an Abrams, Bradley, Stryker or any of the excellent selections of "super cool" looking modern airplanes, helicopters or Hummers- even the figures- body armor, weapons, etc just look "cooler". It's kind of like getting the option of getting a Hummer H2 (Modern US Troops) or a Prius (WW2 US Troops)- God knows, the Prius is going to get you the better gas mileage and be eco friendly but the H2 is going to get you all the chicks!!

However, I believe NONE of these figure lines come close in either sales category, not even in the same league, as Nazi figures-and thats here in the States.

Now, all that being said, I believe we have seen a real first in Toy Soldier history. FoV and 21st haven't made a modern Al Qaeda or mujahadeen figure (I don't believe) but KC and Figarti have. I believe this would mark the first time in Toy Soldier history that a toy soldier company has made "enemy" figures during a major combat operation. Am I correct here??

What we are seeing here on this forum is really only a small slice of the toy soldier collector pie- it really isn't representative of the toy soldier collecting universe. Napoleonic, AWI, ACW and medieval figures are very popular here. But I would be willing to bet that they don't even account for 10-15% of the total US sales volume.

So, that being said, I believe that the average toy soldier collector is wildly supportive of the current US troops but, if my assumptions are correct, the average toy soldier collector is also wildly supportive of the Nazi war machine. Those of us here on the forum represent a minority of collectors who through education, life experiences, etc, choose to collect what they like, which, I would assume through observation, puts Modern figures in the middle to lower end of the collectibility scale yet, still leaves the Nazi war machine in the top 3 or 5.

Just my 2 cents.

CC

 

[panda1gen]

I'll take any and all bets that Andy's WW2 market share here in the States pales in comparison to Dragon, 21st Century and FoV WW2 releases.

I'll take any and all bets that Modern troops are #2 in sales volume and overall sales dollars here in the States. With FoV and 21st Century getting hooked into the major retailer distribution channels of Target, Wal Mart and Toys R Us, they will continue to dominate the market overall.

Now, that being said, I am even willing to go so far as to say that Modern US troops are outselling WW2 American figures- perhaps not outselling them, but maintaining a close pace. I credit that with the look of the modern fighting forces- who DOESN'T want an Abrams, Bradley, Stryker or any of the excellent selections of "super cool" looking modern airplanes, helicopters or Hummers- even the figures- body armor, weapons, etc just look "cooler". It's kind of like getting the option of getting a Hummer H2 (Modern US Troops) or a Prius (WW2 US Troops)- God knows, the Prius is going to get you the better gas mileage and be eco friendly but the H2 is going to get you all the chicks!!

However, I believe NONE of these figure lines come close in either sales category, not even in the same league, as Nazi figures-and thats here in the States.

Now, all that being said, I believe we have seen a real first in Toy Soldier history. FoV and 21st haven't made a modern Al Qaeda or mujahadeen figure (I don't believe) but KC and Figarti have. I believe this would mark the first time in Toy Soldier history that a toy soldier company has made "enemy" figures during a major combat operation. Am I correct here??

What we are seeing here on this forum is really only a small slice of the toy soldier collector pie- it really isn't representative of the toy soldier collecting universe. Napoleonic, AWI, ACW and medieval figures are very popular here. But I would be willing to bet that they don't even account for 10-15% of the total US sales volume.

So, that being said, I believe that the average toy soldier collector is wildly supportive of the current US troops but, if my assumptions are correct, the average toy soldier collector is also wildly supportive of the Nazi war machine. Those of us here on the forum represent a minority of collectors who through education, life experiences, etc, choose to collect what they like, which, I would assume through observation, puts Modern figures in the middle to lower end of the collectibility scale yet, still leaves the Nazi war machine in the top 3 or 5.

Just my 2 cents.

CC

Not disagreeing with this analysis.....however I would prefer to buy more ww2 Commonwealth troops than German, they aren't made........

 

[Harrytheheid]

I agree Harry, but didn't we have to kill those poor German soldiers in order to stop fascism? I do believe there can be such a thing as a just war and killing in self defence. Anyway, blah blah blah politics.

I wasn't misquoting you CS (I hope). I was referring to the Holocaust when I wrote my post. However I do agree with you when you speak about WW2 being a JUST war. And as you say.....politics?
To Quote Gary.......Peace.
H

 

[Rutledge]

Sorry about that, as I said everyone has their very different views on current world issues and there's no way to know ahead of time what particular view might tick people off, so discussing them is like walking in a minefield. Indeed, truth be told I felt like letting loose with a few expletives too when I read your comment in the ebay section that there's no reason our children won't live better lives than ourselves (I think Katrina is only a foreshadow of what is to come unless the global economy immediately reverses course in a number of key ways). So let's both be offended, call it even, and go back to being friends.

Ok, no politics -- but how about economics? I really fail to see how katrina foreshadows anything -- other than perhaps how poorly large government operations can function in a crisis.

CS, being a pessimist is easy, but its the optimists that win the day. Do you know why the head of the US patent office resigned in 1925? Because he said "everything that could be invented already has been!". The founder of IBM, Tom Watson, when talking about computers early on, said "I think there is a worldwide market for about 2 or 3 of these." In the late 1800s, I believe it was the NYTimes that said man would produce a "flying machine", at earliest, in a MILLION years!

I am sure you are familiar with the history of the world/mankind. It has seen GREAT challenges over the years. Certainly much larger than changing climates and poorly run government bureaucracy.

I know enough to know I cannot predict what the future holds. But I can almost assure you, 100%, that the global economy WILL NOT suddenly "reverse course in any number of ways". If you have an idea how that would happen, Id love to hear it.

Looking at history, what I suspect the more likely outcome is, is that the human race adapts, as it always has, to whatever challenges come its way, and moves forward. Now, more than ever with the fantastic technologies, remakrably innovative business community and tremendous global communication abilities, the future of mankind has never been brighter, for ourselves and many generations to come!


.

 

[Canadian Samurai]

Forget it Rutledge - I'm not biting... as I said in another thread, economics cannot be completely divorced from politics because it is all about the allocation of society's scarce resources (who gets what is a political issue as much as an efficiency issue). As we've seen, current events cannot be discussed without opening a can of worms. Besides, you and I could write volumes and not change each other's opinions in the slightest. Within the next 20-50 years, one of us will be proven right and the other wrong - want to take a bet?

 

[OzDigger]

If there more items produced based on our current conflict(s), would collectors be interested in purchasing them? I would hope the answer is yes.

Now dont get me wrong. I love the WWII era, and think K&C does a great job with it.

But the current conflicts have already lasted longer than WWII. And there is no end in sight.

A toy soldier is a way to honor those who have worn the uniform. And our guys and gals need more honoring - IMO, anyway.

I know we are only talking about toy soldiers. My goal is not to "politicize" the hobby. But if those who claim their interest is based at least partly on historical signifigance, isnt there good reason to pay closer attention to what is going on right now. History is being made as I type!

I know there have been a few sets produced by K&C (and others). And my guess is they havent sold well. But if there was a broader array available, that might stimulate interest. Or perhaps a portion of each sale could go towards some charity on behalf of those who have died or were severly injured? Maybe there are legal issues of which I am not aware.

I dont have any specific requests. Nor connections to groups or veteran organizations. I just see the situation in front of us, and those fighting it maybe not getting the attention they should, and I wonder, I wonder....

Hi Rutledge, I reckon you have your answer by now Modern conflicts carry to much political and emotional baggage and wise collector based manufacturers tend to avoid them.

 

[Rutledge]

Forget it Rutledge - I'm not biting... as I said in another thread, economics cannot be completely divorced from politics because it is all about the allocation of society's scarce resources (who gets what is a political issue as much as an efficiency issue). As we've seen, current events cannot be discussed without opening a can of worms. Besides, you and I could write volumes and not change each other's opinions in the slightest. Within the next 20-50 years, one of us will be proven right and the other wrong - want to take a bet?

Certainly Ill take your bet -- although my largest "wager", by far, is via the stock market (US and overseas). Long live capitalism!

Im really puzzled by your determination to see that all this "ends badly" unless we collectively, fundamentally and drastically change our ways. Im gladly "long" our current system, and will continue to believe in its inherent and immutable sustainability, imperfect though it may be.

 

[nmrocks]

Rutledge,
I got your back!
Ray

 

[Tex]

Im really puzzled by your determination to see that all this "ends badly" unless we collectively, fundamentally and drastically change our ways. Im gladly "long" our current system, and will continue to believe in its inherent and immutable sustainability, imperfect though it may be.

HERE, HERE!!
Also got your back!

 

[maloyalo]

believe this would mark the first time in Toy Soldier history that a toy soldier company has made "enemy" figures during a major combat operation. Am I correct here?? CC

One set that may have been made during the conflict was a Marx miniature playset, I think called Guerrilla warfare. It had painted hard plastic, roughly HO scale, figures both US & NVA (or Viet Cong), and accessories. But I do not know date issued, but am fairly sure it was in the mid - late 60's.

Britains also issued a series right after 1st Gulf war, I believe, but without naming who the enemy was. The 'good' side had blue helmets and UN markings on at least some vehicles. The bad guys were more brownish in color. This un-named but obvious enemy has also been done before. I recently saw a double bagged blister with normal green army men in one bag, and the same figures in red plastic in the other. The header card had 'Commies' in big red letters, but I forget the phrase.

 

[Canadian Samurai]

HERE, HERE!!
Also got your back!

You three remind me of the orchestra on the titanic. Everyone thought it was invincible too and the orchestra kept playing happy tunes as it sunk. Peak oil and climate change are the icebergs of capitalism. Ready to swim?

 

[Tex]

Why would our system be unable to adapt? What is your proposed alternative?
As has been pointed out earlier, democracy and capitalism have weathered far worse storms.

Being Canadian, wouldn't you be in favor of global warming? (sorry)

 

[Rutledge]

You three remind me of the orchestra on the titanic. Everyone thought it was invincible too and the orchestra kept playing happy tunes as it sunk. Peak oil and climate change are the icebergs of capitalism. Ready to swim?

CS and I, along with my "backers" will never agree. Peak oil is a myth that has not yet been proven (look up abiotic oil on wikipedia). And climate change can be argued a myriad of ways.

Regardless, the only way to bring about (the "necessary") massive reduction in carbon emissions is via significant taxes and other financially punitive measures. As we all know, the people that will be most affected by such are the poor and less well off. Are you ready to support an extremely regressive tax, CS?

 

[Tex]

My sarcasm aside, I would be interested in hearing Canadian Samurai's suggestions. I assume that if someone complains vehemently about something, they have a better idea in mind.

 

[OzDigger]

You three remind me of the orchestra on the titanic. Everyone thought it was invincible too and the orchestra kept playing happy tunes as it sunk. Peak oil and climate change are the icebergs of capitalism. Ready to swim?

I suspect the "official" US opinion on Global Warming etc won't change until the American people vote a change of government.

Australian was in a similar situation until our recent change of government which resulted in Australia finally signing the Kyoto Protocol even though it will hurt our country economically more than most.

China is the prime polluter in the world and unlikely to change its standards until the US bites the bullet. I agree that Global Warming may be a flash in the pan, but it surely would help us all to cut greenhouse gas emissions. If you stub your big toe and it turns black it may go away but imo it's better to do something about it before your leg turns black

 

[nmrocks]

Oz,
I disagree, though President Bush is against signing the Kyoto Treaty, it's mainly on Economoic terms that he disagrees. He has gone so far as to say that green house emisions are causing global warming, rather it is the sceptisism of the American people that is at the heart of it here. While it's trendy and popular to fight for Green, for every trend indicating we are at fault there is equal Trending saying it's a normal cycle of the planet and we have nothing to do with it. Oz, there's just too many people at the heart of this movement getting disgustingly rich on this whole thing not to make me more than a little suspicious. Hell, I don't know about your weather men but ours can't tell you whats going to happen tommorow acuratly and there telling me whats going to happen 20 to 50 years from now????? please!!!!
Ray

 

[OzDigger]

Ray, as I said, I am not convinced that the present warming is not natural. However I feel it is wise to take steps now to reduce emissions wherever possible. I also feel there is an element of politics at play in the US over this matter. If Bush signed the agreement he would be basically saying that Al Gore was right. And it's not as if George W has not done things that the majority of Americans are against

 

[nmrocks]

Oz,
No Doubt, Bush has been a disapointment to both Democrats and Republicans. I also agree Pollution reduction is always a good thing, I just want solid proof that there is cause and effect before we cause hardship and spend massive amounts of capital basically "pissing in the wind".
Past experience basically comes down to Global Environmental treaties being condensed down to "How Can we Extort More Money from the USA?". Anything administered by the United Nations might as well be given to Tin Horn dictators and corupt bureaucrats,
Too Strong???
Ray

 

[Tex]

Well, I don't deny Global Warming at all, and I agree that we ought to take action to limit greenhouse gases. As far as the Kyoto Protocal goes, how many signatories are actually abiding by it, anyway? And, as I recall, unless I am confused, the Clinton Administration initially had the opportunity to sign, but couldn't work out the political infighting to get it done. Yes, Bush didn't sign it, but they didn't have the chance, either. They are all at fault in my opinion. And sooner or later, we'll end up hopping onboard with that stuff.

Either way, I think this is irrelevant to CS's doomsday predictions, and I am still eager to hear what his suggestions are.

 

[Louis A. Cortez]

Guys,
Just this morning I heard a news cast discussing how the Australian Prime Minister lost the election becasue of his refusal to participate in the Global Warming conference. The new guy sgined on and supposedly is now worried what effects it will have on his country. Interesting subject. Thanks for all the discussions.