Zulu??? (1 Viewer)

[PolarBear]

Pictures of the RHA in 1880 (one year after AZW) on the North-West Frontier (Battle of Maiwand) showing both blue tunics and trousers as in the Osprey prints. I have not found any cases of the khaki Bedford cords being worn so far by the RHA. Later (1890s) they did wear all khaki (last photo)

 

[The Collectors Showcase]

Pictures of the RHA in 1880 (one year after AZW) on the North-West Frontier (Battle of Maiwand) showing both blue tunics and trousers as in the Osprey prints. I have not found any cases of the khaki Bedford cords being worn so far by the RHA. Later (1890s) they did wear all khaki (last photo)

The debate rages, so a few points:

There is photographic evidence that we pulled from of khakis absolutely being worn by RHA in the Zulu Campaign. Im very suprised that no one has turned the page in the ever popular Ian Knight title and noted the photographs of RHA clearly wearing khaki trousers.

But beyond that many RHA troops were being rotated in from Afganistan and India had drawn their summer uniforms which included the khaki trousers. There were no hard fast rules about khaki trousers being worn or navy, it was simply up to the individual RHA man to do as he saw fit.

Also please note that paintings and photographs documenting the Mahdi revolt that occured shortly after clearly shows khaki being the dominant color. And of course these RHA batteries were pulled from Zululand.

Does this mean I win the Mbonambi tribal wife?, I certainly hope not

Best regards,

Brian

 

[The Lt.]

During the Zulu War RA officers seem to have worn the blue patrol jacket without exceptions. Their trousers were blue with a 2 inch scarlet stripe as pictured in the photograph. Like the infantry the RA rankers favoured the undress frock: this was dark blue it's collar was red with yellow worsted piping around the bottom edge with the shoulder straps being piped yellow all round, the cuffs bore a yellow trefoil. Their trousers were dark blue with a wide scarlet stripe wearing leggings and black boots and would have been the uniforms worn at Isandlwana on the 22nd of January 1879. The trousers and and frocks without the striping and boots appearing on your artilley men are similar to the uniforms worn by the Mounted Infantry. As when 5/N Battery of the Royal Artillery joined Chelmsford I've yet to find the answer as to the shako plates and the Foreign Service Helmet it's very possible on the arrival the plate was being worn and the Helmet the color of white which would have been dyed and the plate removed. The point Brian that was made is that they were not members of the 24th Regiment of Foot and that at Isandlwana they would have been wearing the uniforms provided in the pictures posted. That be said I'll continue to search for an answer to your question on their joining Chelmsford. Speaking of IAN KNIGHT I recommend that if you haven't a copy of OSPREY Elite Series British Forces in Zululand 1879 which he describes the uniforms worn on pages 31 and 32 and his OSPREY Campaign Series Zulu 1879 on page 19 the uniform of the ranker.....The Lt.

 

[thebritfarmer]

I think the set was originally titled as 24th foot but has sinced been changed. I think that is where there was some confusion.

 

[PolarBear]

From Ian Knight's Isandlwana 1879 (Osprey)

2 page spread showing the 2 7 pdr guns of N Battery 5th Brigade at Isandlwana --Basically dark blue tunics and trousers and tan (not white) foreign service helmets with no badges. Only the figure on far rt. with pistol shows the tan breeches clearly. Likely an officer. Lt. Chard in red tunic wore the tan breeches at the Drift.

 

[1879fanatic]

The debate rages, so a few points:

There is photographic evidence that we pulled from of khakis absolutely being worn by RHA in the Zulu Campaign. Im very suprised that no one has turned the page in the ever popular Ian Knight title and noted the photographs of RHA clearly wearing khaki trousers.

But beyond that many RHA troops were being rotated in from Afganistan and India had drawn their summer uniforms which included the khaki trousers. There were no hard fast rules about khaki trousers being worn or navy, it was simply up to the individual RHA man to do as he saw fit.

Also please note that paintings and photographs documenting the Mahdi revolt that occurred shortly after clearly shows khaki being the dominant color. And of course these RHA batteries were pulled from Zululand.

Does this mean I win the Mbonambi tribal wife?, I certainly hope not

Best regards,

Brian

Brian,
Which of the twelve Ian Knight books are you referring to? N/5 Battery of the Royal Regiment of Artillery (Not Royal Horse Artillery)was in-country for a year and a half according to Lt. Curling's Autobiography. Any mounted officers may have been wearing riding cords, but that limits the "khaki" colored tan cords to potentially Maj. Stuart and Lt. Curling. The rest of the 50 detailed NCOs would have had the issued blue red-striped trousers. Being in-country for the rebellion and 9th Frontier War would predilict these men to have very dirty stained helmets and certainly no attached plates. Much more to come to deserve my elderly bride!
Mike

 

[1879fanatic]

Ah! Curling and Stuart!

 

[damian]

Ah! Curling and Stuart!

A Frenchman met an eldelry Boer in a pub in SA and they got to talking. The Frenchman said our brave soldiers wore red trousers so if they were shot no-one would notice the blood.
The old Boer thought a bit and then siad in a slow drawl.
Ja menheer so now we know what the British wore kakhi in the Boer War.
Maybe the same applies here.

 

[The Lt.]

A Frenchman met an eldelry Boer in a pub in SA and they got to talking. The Frenchman said our brave soldiers wore red trousers so if they were shot no-one would notice the blood.
The old Boer thought a bit and then siad in a slow drawl.
Ja menheer so now we know what the British wore kakhi in the Boer War.
Maybe the same applies here.

You know better Damian

 

[GICOP]

Here are three photos of various RA units in the Zulu War

10/7 Battery, RA Gatling guns

Battery of 7pdrs

Another picture of 10/7 Battery with their Commanding Officer Major Owen, on the left of the picture, who appears to be the only one in any of the pictures wearing cord trousers

Cheers

Martyn

 

[maddadicus]

Thank goodness that I am a glossy Zulu War kind of collector ,but you can bet that I would be repainting those pants, if I was ever to start buying matte..Time to see if Big Bill Hocker might repaint me up his 1890 knacki arty crew into royal blue?..Michael

 

[The Breaker]

1879fanatic,

Thanks for posting the closeup of the 7pdr.
The photos of the 7pdrs. that I've seen were similar to the center photo of GICOPs posting of the ZW Artillery units. It must be the angle they just looked a bit longer than the CS gun.
Seeing the photo you posted I humbly stand corrected.
I am a homer for the Zulu War and have preordered the sets even with the plates on the service helmets and the khaki breeches.

Heck, I love the movie Zulu and they all had the plates on the helmets.

Brian,

How about a second 7pdr. set with the artillery men working the gun. It would give a nice option to do a diorama in a different stage of the battle.

 

[kilted vampire]

Brian, Will you have any of these for sale at the WC?

 

[1879fanatic]

Here are three photos of various RA units in the Zulu War

10/7 Battery, RA Gatling guns

Battery of 7pdrs

Another picture of 10/7 Battery with their Commanding Officer Major Owen, on the left of the picture, who appears to be the only one in any of the pictures wearing cord trousers

Cheers

Martyn

Martyn,
Not to throw a wrench into the spokes, but the bottom photo has two other men in cords(non-blue) The Colour Sergeant lounging next to the right side gun is probably a mounted NCO detailed to both gun crews. The other guy is second to the far right and is most likely Naval Brigade. Of course, this doesn't prove anything, just nice to see the pictures
Mike

 

[PolarBear]

What about the red sleeve cord on the CS and the red trim on the edges of the tunic? Shouldn't the sleeve decoration be yellow/gold and no trim at the edges of the tunic. Also that shade of blue on the CS looks more royal than navy blue in the photo? If these are paint models perhaps they can correct the production items if need be?

 

[The Lt.]

Randy that would apply only to the Rankers the Officer would have been wearing a blue patrol jacket as shown earlier and I thing we've made our points and I sure Brian's goal is to provided us with some of the finest figures of the period as time goes by .........The Lt.

 

[PolarBear]

I was wondering about Brian's mention that the RHA at Isandlwana may have been sent from the North-West Frontier. Does anyone have documentation of this? It is quite intriguing to me as a new collector of the North-West Frontier. Checking through images of battles on the North-West frontier I did come across this illustration from the Battle of Maiwand (1880) showing the RHA with blue tunics and the khaki cord breeches and black riding boots that appear in the CS RHA set. This uniform is similar to the officer (rt. side) of an illustration depicting the King's Own Royal Regiment during the Battle of Peiwar Kotal in 1878. Anyhow as a scholar/researcher for 40 years I just cannot help being curious about these issues and look forward to whatever the AZW experts on the forum can share As they say inquiring minds want to know or is it curiosity killed the cat

 

[The Breaker]

Polarbear,

From what I've read the British troops at Maiwand, infantry and RHA, wore the khaki drill.

 

[PolarBear]

Polarbear,

From what I've read the British troops at Maiwand, infantry and RHA, wore the khaki drill.

Yes that is what the famous painting by Richard Caton Woodville shows as seen below. That is likely more accurate than the illustration in the my earlier post since Woodville was reporting the war at the time for the Illustrated London News.

E Battery Royal Horse Artillery escaping from the
overwhelming Afghan attack at the Battle of Maiwand

 

[Spitfrnd]

However they are attired, these seemed to be welcome additions, especially size to match the really nice WB Zulus that I have started to acquire. I am also pleased to see that the faces are much better than some of the Napoleonics range British soldiers. Compare for example these ZW faces with a couple from the 95th series posted.

I just hope the final version of the 95th faces are a bit improved over the master shots.