News Update August 4th, 2025 - WWII German Armor Special Pre-Order (1 Viewer)

[tsukaiban]

I wonder what Mitch and Alex have in mind. I haven't heard from them for years. Glad to hear comments from them.

 

[Hunter Rose]

About the KingTiger #123 :

it was one of the twelve KingTigers with Porsche turret from the 1st company of the s.H.Pz Abt. 503 in Normandy.
Its commander was the Unteroffizier Curt Weidenkaff.
On August 3, the tank was first immobilized by artillery fire at La Bigne and then scuttled by its crew.
According to a recent historical book, the number of tanks destroyed by the battailon during all the Normandy battle was very low : only 23 !
( in comparison : about 200 for the s. SS Pz Abt 101 and 227 for the s. SS Pz Abt 102 ).
Even with other more "optimistic" sources that speak of 70 to 80 destroyed allied tanks, the score remains very bad compared to the 55 Tigers I and KingTigers lost.
( including the KingTigers of the recompleted 3rd company).
This could be explained by several reasons : the lack of logistical, technical and strategic support, insufficient training of KingTiger crews and unsuitable environment.
Poorly deployed, these heavy tanks were unable to take advantage of their striking power.
Just a little remark about the very nice JJD model : as shown in the attached photo, the exhausts should have been the production model and not the early-style system.

That's interesting new information. I never bought that book because it is only available in French text.

The picture you posted is probably the highest resolution image I've ever seen of the rear of that tank, and to me the third digit is still unrecognizable. I just see the hint of a number outline of where the top of the third digit likely would be.

I imagine the author identified it from veterans accounts?

I've always seen those pictures identified as King Tiger #121, including the identification efforts of the old Tiger Im Focus website (pic below). I'm curious, does the Maranes Edition Series '44 s.Pz.Abt. 503 book have pictures identified as King Tiger #121?

 

[Barkmann]

Barkmann, indeed your touring on Goodwood battlefield must have been very interesting and historically constructive on many points.
I don't have the books you are referring to but I'll take note of their interest.

Cheers, same with me and the book you mentioned, have to be careful with books, as buy way too many, especially on D Day/Normandy and the Battle of the Bulge. i am what the Japanese call a Tsundoku [goglge it]. My ex-wife used to ask me why do you need yet another book on Day/Normandy and/or the Battle of the Bulge? My answer, to me they were a bit like her and the many many many pairs of black shoes she had and why she has bought yet another pair of black shoes.

I find visiting or 'walking the ground' can bring the reading and research to life, i am very lucky living where i do, i can leave home at 6am on a Sunday morning, 2 hour drive to the ferry, then 5 and half hour ferry crossing and i am there in Normandy. Have plan to visit Culloden [524 miles drive one way], but the drive is actually over 80 miles further than it is when i drive to Bastogne in Belgium and the Battle of the Bulge won over for this years trip.

In 2012, i was at meetings in Washington and added 4 days to my trip, hired car, drove to Gettyburg. Spent 2 days there and walked the battleground, stood where the Confederate Dead at Devil's Den picture was taken, walked Pickett's Charge, went up Little Round Top, plus other places, including the TS shops and tourist shops/museums. Brought the Shaara and Rollins books to life, Pickett's Charge [made me think of the Charge of the Light Brigade] one of the most couragous brave actions, yet it was so foolish, but hindsight is perfect and we must not judge what happened then in conflict while sitting comfortably at home. Was Gettysburg where 2 opposing officers who knew each other met on the battlefield, one was wounded and they parted and both thought the other had been killed and did not find out that was not the case until many years later?

I do not have the technical knowledge you obviously have on the exhausts and good to hear, we as collectors spend a lot of money and we should be able to get accuracy. Good to have the people on the forum with that knowledge, i know tank models and variants, the difference between types of Tiger 1s and the model differences with most other German tanks, such as the different Panzer IVs and others, but the one thing that i have heard many conflicting reasons for, which makes me think no one really knows, is the Panther and why the D came out before the A version and where was the C versions. Found out the B version was to use another engine but that was scrapped. Then the version F was planned after the G Version. Had a chat with the two David's of Bovington Tank Museum [Fletcher and Willey] and they just shrugged their shoulders and said there is no documented evidence as why, just theories. While at German Tank Museum, Munster, in 2017 asked one of the curators and he laughed and said "It is a mystery, like your English Jack the Ripper, everyone thinks they know who he was, but there is no written proof, same with the Panther and release letters".

 

[Panzer ace]

Great discussion, thanks to all for their posts and input.

 

[Mastercom10]

That's interesting new information. I never bought that book because it is only available in French text.

The picture you posted is probably the highest resolution image I've ever seen of the rear of that tank, and to me the third digit is still unrecognizable. I just see the hint of a number outline of where the top of the third digit likely would be.

I imagine the author identified it from veterans accounts?

I've always seen those pictures identified as King Tiger #121, including the identification efforts of the old Tiger Im Focus website (pic below). I'm curious, does the Maranes Edition Series '44 s.Pz.Abt. 503 book have pictures identified as King Tiger #121?

View attachment 354715

I checked in the book but unfortunately there is not a single photo of the KingTiger #121.
I do know that there are some other sources that identify these photos as KingTiger #121 and not #123, but the author of this Maranes book based his work exclusively on testimonies
from veterans of this battalion.
I have attached a new fairly clear photo of the rear of the tank.
Hunter, in relation to your various messages, you must have important and interesting documentation on WWII german tanks.
I am looking for a series of photos showing trial test of KingTigers with brand new "ambush scheme" camo ( see second attached photo).
Would you have some of these photos ?.

 

[Mastercom10]

Cheers, same with me and the book you mentioned, have to be careful with books, as buy way too many, especially on D Day/Normandy and the Battle of the Bulge. i am what the Japanese call a Tsundoku [goglge it]. My ex-wife used to ask me why do you need yet another book on Day/Normandy and/or the Battle of the Bulge? My answer, to me they were a bit like her and the many many many pairs of black shoes she had and why she has bought yet another pair of black shoes.

I find visiting or 'walking the ground' can bring the reading and research to life, i am very lucky living where i do, i can leave home at 6am on a Sunday morning, 2 hour drive to the ferry, then 5 and half hour ferry crossing and i am there in Normandy. Have plan to visit Culloden [524 miles drive one way], but the drive is actually over 80 miles further than it is when i drive to Bastogne in Belgium and the Battle of the Bulge won over for this years trip.

In 2012, i was at meetings in Washington and added 4 days to my trip, hired car, drove to Gettyburg. Spent 2 days there and walked the battleground, stood where the Confederate Dead at Devil's Den picture was taken, walked Pickett's Charge, went up Little Round Top, plus other places, including the TS shops and tourist shops/museums. Brought the Shaara and Rollins books to life, Pickett's Charge [made me think of the Charge of the Light Brigade] one of the most couragous brave actions, yet it was so foolish, but hindsight is perfect and we must not judge what happened then in conflict while sitting comfortably at home. Was Gettysburg where 2 opposing officers who knew each other met on the battlefield, one was wounded and they parted and both thought the other had been killed and did not find out that was not the case until many years later?

I do not have the technical knowledge you obviously have on the exhausts and good to hear, we as collectors spend a lot of money and we should be able to get accuracy. Good to have the people on the forum with that knowledge, i know tank models and variants, the difference between types of Tiger 1s and the model differences with most other German tanks, such as the different Panzer IVs and others, but the one thing that i have heard many conflicting reasons for, which makes me think no one really knows, is the Panther and why the D came out before the A version and where was the C versions. Found out the B version was to use another engine but that was scrapped. Then the version F was planned after the G Version. Had a chat with the two David's of Bovington Tank Museum [Fletcher and Willey] and they just shrugged their shoulders and said there is no documented evidence as why, just theories. While at German Tank Museum, Munster, in 2017 asked one of the curators and he laughed and said "It is a mystery, like your English Jack the Ripper, everyone thinks they know who he was, but there is no written proof, same with the Panther and release letters".

You are right, going directly to the very places where great battles took place is an enriching opportunity which allows to immerse in history.
I also have some favorite battles, especially the battle of the Bulge.
In the 80s, I bought the venerable "After the Battle" book that was the reference at this time.
Since there have been a multitude of books on this subject, but my favorites are the 3 volumes of "Duel in the Mist".
Concerning the non-chronological numbering of the different Panther tank models, indeed it remains a great mystery.
I checked in some serious books of my documentation and there is no really official explanation, just some hypotheses.

 

[Hunter Rose]

I checked in the book but unfortunately there is not a single photo of the KingTiger #121.
I do know that there are some other sources that identify these photos as KingTiger #121 and not #123, but the author of this Maranes book based his work exclusively on testimonies
from veterans of this battalion.
I have attached a new fairly clear photo of the rear of the tank.
Hunter, in relation to your various messages, you must have important and interesting documentation on WWII german tanks.
I am looking for a series of photos showing trial test of KingTigers with brand new "ambush scheme" camo ( see second attached photo).
Would you have some of these photos ?.

Thanks for the additional picture. My brain still sees the top edge of a "1" as the last digit, but that means nothing.

The Maranes Editions books have an excellent reputation. I wish they would translate more of them into English. The only one I am aware they have translated is Stephan Cazenave's SS-Panzer Regiment 12 book, which I have, and it is excellent.

For your picture request, I believe these three pictures are from the same series of photos of of fresh King Tigers with ambush camo:

 

[Mastercom10]

Thanks for the additional picture. My brain still sees the top edge of a "1" as the last digit, but that means nothing.

The Maranes Editions books have an excellent reputation. I wish they would translate more of them into English. The only one I am aware they have translated is Stephan Cazenave's SS-Panzer Regiment 12 book, which I have, and it is excellent.

For your picture request, I believe these three pictures are from the same series of photos of of fresh King Tigers with ambush camo:

View attachment 354741

View attachment 354742

View attachment 354743

Thanks a lot for the KingTiger photos, that is exactly what I am looking for.
In case you are also looking for some specific photos, don't hesitate to ask me and I will search my documentation.
Indeed Maranes Editions published very good books concerning SS Pz Div, Tiger abteilungen and also PzJäger abteilung 654. I hope for the foreign collectors
that they will be translated into english.
There is also Heimdal editions which has published very good books on Panzer Divisions and Normandy battle.