Things that annoy me (5 Viewers)

mikemiller1955 said:

watch the video...believe your own eyes...Pretti beaten down by a half dozen ICE agents...ICE removed legally licensed gun from Pretti's belt...Pretti never drew a weapon...now unarmed and surrounded...they fired over 10 shots close range at an unarmed man...turn off Fox News for a minute and believe your own eyes...ICE screwed the pooch again...
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There is no way to see what exactly happened in that scrum. We don't even know why the guy was there with a gun and why ICE was trying to apprehend him but again if the politicians had not incited the mob with reckless claims and/or had allowed the police to do their job and create a buffer between the mob and ICE, none of this would have happened. The local politicians clearly have no desire to protect their citizens or they would allow local law enforcement to do their job. In addition, they cried about handling the investigation but then admitted that they ordered law enforcement to abandon the crime scene to the mob. They literally ran away. I've never heard of any law enforcement agency ever allowing a mob to overrun the crime scene. Why did they do this? They didn't want to be seen opposing the mob for political reasons.
 
Combat said:
There is no way to see what exactly happened in that scrum. We don't even know why the guy was there with a gun and why ICE was trying to apprehend him but again if the politicians had not incited the mob with reckless claims and/or had allowed the police to do their job and create a buffer between the mob and ICE, none of this would have happened. The local politicians clearly have no desire to protect their citizens or they would allow local law enforcement to do their job. In addition, they cried about handling the investigation but then admitted that they ordered law enforcement to abandon the crime scene to the mob. They literally ran away. I've never heard of any law enforcement agency ever allowing a mob to overrun the crime scene. Why did they do this? They didn't want to be seen opposing the mob for political reasons.
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Bingo. Why people want to put themselves in this position, I have zero idea other than they are dumber than dirt. And why carry a gun. Just why? The first thing civilians are taught in a self defense carry class is where NOT to carry a gun, or better yet, where NOT to be in other words, situational awareness.

I hate to say it, but this is when I sound like an Anti Gun person regarding carry permits, there needs to be better qualification and training. I take mine seriously and that is due to family history of instilling responsible gun ownership, unfortunately, there are idiots getting permits.

TD
 
in the video...you can clearly see the ICE agent take Pretti's "Legally Licensed gun" out of his belt...if anybody watched the entire video...it's clear they unarmed him...he had a right and a permit to carry it...that is legal...he never brandished the weapon or even attempted to pull it out...once ICE removed his weapon...they backed away leaving him beaten and unarmed on the ground...then they shot him...firing over 10 shots at him...they murdered him...TOTALLY UNNECESSARY!...they flat out murdered an unarmed man...

I'm pro gun...big time...kind of a gun nut...but like they say...I would rather by judged by 12 than carried out in a box by 6...mostly now for home/car defense...my hunting days are over...

I'm the last male survivor of the Miller clan and inherited all the guns...maybe 8 deer hunting rifles...another 8 shotguns (12's and 18's)...2 pistol pump Marine shotguns...couple of started guns for kids...22's that me and my brother got when I was 10 years old...a Chinese model AK-47...at least 6 hand guns scattered around the house in different rooms...my guns are used only for a last line of defense...I would rather have one and not need it than not one have and need it...

I have no problem with a civilian legally arming himself...none at all...

I had a cash business and made drop off deposits after hours...always carried a gun in my car...years ago Texas had a law that if you transport cash for deposits...that it was legal to carry a handgun open or concealed...years later Abbott passed a law in Texas that if you are over 21 and felony free...then you could lawfully carry a gun...no license required...I always had one in my car just in case...

they just murdered an unarmed defenseless man...I can't abide by that...it's murder...

why carry a gun?

cause you never know what's going to happen...
 
mikemiller1955 said:
in the video...you can clearly see the ICE agent take Pretti's "Legally Licensed gun" out of his belt...if anybody watched the entire video...it's clear they unarmed him...he had a right and a permit to carry it...that is legal...he never brandished the weapon or even attempted to pull it out...once ICE removed his weapon...they backed away leaving him beaten and unarmed on the ground...then they shot him...firing over 10 shots at him...they murdered him...TOTALLY UNNECESSARY!...they flat out murdered an unarmed man...

I'm pro gun...big time...kind of a gun nut...but like they say...I would rather by judged by 12 than carried out in a box by 6...mostly now for home/car defense...my hunting days are over...

I'm the last male survivor of the Miller clan and inherited all the guns...maybe 8 deer hunting rifles...another 8 shotguns (12's and 18's)...2 pistol pump Marine shotguns...couple of started guns for kids...22's that me and my brother got when I was 10 years old...a Chinese model AK-47...at least 6 hand guns scattered around the house in different rooms...my guns are used only for a last line of defense...I would rather have one and not need it than not one have and need it...

I have no problem with a civilian legally arming himself...none at all...

I had a cash business and made drop off deposits after hours...always carried a gun in my car...years ago Texas had a law that if you transport cash for deposits...that it was legal to carry a handgun open or concealed...years later Abbott passed a law in Texas that if you are over 21 and felony free...then you could lawfully carry a gun...no license required...I always had one in my car just in case...

they just murdered an unarmed defenseless man...I can't abide by that...it's murder...

why carry a gun?

cause you never know what's going to happen...
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Whatever the case, its going too far. We can speculate on what we'd do in a particular situation, but we really don't know how we'd react when the s...t hits the fan. I'm still with Mike Miller.
Mike, don't state on what you own. They might want to take it away.
 
Go for Broke said:
Whatever the case, its going too far. We can speculate on what we'd do in a particular situation, but we really don't know how we'd react when the s...t hits the fan. I'm still with Mike Miller.
Mike, don't state on what you own. They might want to take it away.
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It is a very good point and I am from a State where everything is registered. I have no problem with that but I try never to publicly post it as you never know not to mention thieves. It is a good point to make.

As to how you would react, your training should basically come down to muscle memory which should allow your head to make a good decision. That said, imo there are licensed people who may not be capable of that. For me, I took and take my responsibility seriously enough to put in time so that I am comfortable in fulfilling thr obligations of responsibility I have set. I dont know how else to do anything other 100% commitment. To me, it is not simply a piece of paper.
 
The ICE agents should not have to be engaged in crowd control. That should be the job of the local police. If they created a buffer between ICE and the mob, these incidents wouldn't be occurring. The local politicians appear to want these incidents to occur to promote a desired narrative because the solution is obvious. Let the police do their job. Let ICE do their job. And let the protestors protest from a safe distance away.
 
Combat said:
The ICE agents should not have to be engaged in crowd control. That should be the job of the local police. If they created a buffer between ICE and the mob, these incidents wouldn't be occurring. The local politicians appear to want these incidents to occur to promote a desired narrative because the solution is obvious. Let the police do their job. Let ICE do their job. And let the protestors protest from a safe distance away.
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Go for Broke said:
Whatever the case, its going too far. We can speculate on what we'd do in a particular situation, but we really don't know how we'd react when the s...t hits the fan. I'm still with Mike Miller.
Mike, don't state on what you own. They might want to take it away.
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Texas doesn’t require firearm registration on rifles, shotguns or handguns… my brother had a federal firearms license…he let me play with some of those toys…but they far exceeded any fire power I needed…
 
mikemiller1955 said:
I got it...you condone that right...If they could of just been as peaceful as the Jan 6th Capitol protestors right? Makes sense to me...lol...
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Well nobody seemed to mind that girl being killed on Jan 6th. Also not much said about ICE agent having his finger bitten off. At least by the legacy media. Everyone needs to see the whole picture out there. If the police out there were allowed to turn over the criminals like they are suppose to by law you wouldn't have this problem. But when you have a corrupt Governor, mayor, AG, Senator, you don't have much of a chance. I haven't heard much about the attacks on ICE or the doxxing.
Mark
 
I'm probably sticking my neck out here, but why on earth would anyone (other than law enforcement) carry a fire arm to a protest?

Admittedly I don't understand American gun laws, however it makes no logical sense to me what-so-ever.

From a policing perspective anyone showing up with a firearm/weapon at a protest down here in NZ would be considered an immediate threat (terrorist) and neutralized accordingly no questions asked.
 
Desertkiwi said:
I'm probably sticking my neck out here, but why on earth would anyone (other than law enforcement) carry a fire arm to a protest?

Admittedly I don't understand American gun laws, however it makes no logical sense to me what-so-ever.

From a policing perspective anyone showing up with a firearm/weapon at a protest down here in NZ would be considered an immediate threat (terrorist) and neutralized accordingly no questions asked
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Agree with you, that was part of my post as a responsible gun owner, there is situational awareness where you either do NOT carry a firearm or you avoid the situation all together. Unfortunately, training and common sense varies greatly. If you are a carrier in the USA, you also should have insurance (of which statistically only 1/3 of gun owners do). Your policy specifically doesn't cover certain situations.........................again, common sense.

TD
 
tdubel said:
Agree with you, that was part of my post as a responsible gun owner, there is situational awareness where you either do NOT carry a firearm or you avoid the situation all together. Unfortunately, training and common sense varies greatly. If you are a carrier in the USA, you also should have insurance (of which statistically only 1/3 of gun owners do). Your policy specifically doesn't cover certain situations.........................again, common sense.

TD
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It was certainly a dumb thing to do but with that said the ICE agents don't appear to be adequately trained to handle these incidents. That is a big part of the problem. The ICE agents are making a bad situation much worse. Until that is fixed or the local police start keeping the protestors back, they should reassess how they are conducting these raids. Both for their own protection and that of the protestors. The status quo is not working for anyone. If the local police are prohibited from assisting, then Trump should invoke the Insurrection Act and put the entire place under military control until they can maintain order to keep everyone safe.
 
Once again what happened was truly tragic. Pretti seemed to be someone you would be happy to have as a friend or neighbor. Given what happened, bring a firearm to the protest was a bad idea. However, that said, he was within his legal 2nd amendment right to do that. The citizens of Minneapolis are also within their 1st amendment right to observe and video ICE. The videos of the incident that I saw did not witness him brandish or pointing a gun at any of the ICE agents. The level of him interfering with a law enforcement operation seems open to interpretation. Protesters say he was only trying to protect a woman on the ground from being pepper sprayed. The Border Patrol Commander Bovino claimed that Pretti was a domestic terrorist who wanted to massacre law enforcement. Given the current heated environment ICE agents should wear body cameras. Right now the protesters are providing the only video record of what is transpiring during these operations. ICE body cameras could provide needed context to what is happening. An independent investigation (neither fed nor MN state) of the shooting needs be conducted to determine if the shooting was justified. Both sides are in unenviable positions. ICE agents are trying to do their difficult jobs. For many Minnesotans the faith and trust in the federal government has eroded to the point that they feel they must take to the street to observe, video and protest what the federal government is doing. I believe that what has gotten us to this point is decades of a “do nothing” Legislative branch. Both Republican and Democratic parties have used immigration to bash the other side and fund raise for their own self interests. We need a safe, secure and humane immigration policy. It’s too late for what is happening now, but if the two side would just do their jobs then maybe this won’t happen again in the future.
 
Please chill out and take a second (or like 10 minutes) to think about what you are typing and wanting to post. I will continue to delete over and and over and over....
Trust me, this is horrific and scary. But no need to be getting angry at others and their point of view. Thus you are no better than the people 'in charge'?

Julie
 
tdubel said:
Agree with you, that was part of my post as a responsible gun owner, there is situational awareness where you either do NOT carry a firearm or you avoid the situation all together. Unfortunately, training and common sense varies greatly. If you are a carrier in the USA, you also should have insurance (of which statistically only 1/3 of gun owners do). Your policy specifically doesn't cover certain situations.........................again, common sense.

TD
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Agreed and thanks for the feedback everyone, I'm just trying to gain a better understanding of the situation.

Common sense is thin on the ground these days, let alone taking responsibility for your own actions.

People feel very entitled too. Its all about me and what I want, you can't tell me what to do.......blah blah blah, don't touch me, blah blah blah......then there's the melt down when reality meets stupid.

Carrying/using a firearm of any sort comes with huge responsibility, that includes regular training and having a firm understanding of the laws that allow their use.

By all accounts an avoidable tragedy.
 
mikemiller1955 said:
Texas doesn’t require firearm registration on rifles, shotguns or handguns… my brother had a federal firearms license…he let me play with some of those toys…but they far exceeded any fire power I needed…
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Dad was given a handgun when he was a prosecutor of murderers when he he started as a States Attorney. Never loaded it. Even when someone he convicted escaped he decided that it was better for the police to deal with. By the way the jerk ordered a pizza in Racine and his friend ratted on him. Thank you... Grandpa gave us his WW2 carbine but the license was too expensive so we sold it. So Dad & I haven't packed heat for decade upon decade. It's rarely necessary unless you're a cop or fighting crime or legitimately threatened for some other reason.
That said, it is legal. A death sentence was way too high for that guy, and now I'm done.
Paddy
 
mikemiller1955 said:

watch the video...believe your own eyes...Pretti beaten down by a half dozen ICE agents...ICE removed legally licensed gun from Pretti's belt...Pretti never drew a weapon...now unarmed and surrounded...they fired over 10 shots close range at an unarmed man...turn off Fox News for a minute and believe your own eyes...ICE screwed the pooch again...
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Mike you say he was beaten down by a half dozen Ice Agents. What you seem to forget in law enforcement we don't fight fair we fight to win because we have to. As TD pointed out nothing good will come if you are armed, legally or not, to interfere with the agents doing there job. When the initial struggle happened it was caused by this guy interfering with an agent pushing that woman out of the way. When the agent discovered the concealed pistol should a "time out" automatically kick in and the agents request the proper conceal and carry papers? That is ludicrous. When those agents heard "gun" then a split second later a shot. I know my first thought was the suspect fired that round. How many actually saw the agent who grabbed the gun and started to run away from the struggle. I would bet not one of the agents that fired. All these experts examining frame by frame, slow motion, etc, we are talking a couple of seconds for the agents to react. Thinking him or me. Also we are trained to shoot center mass until the threat has stopped. Once those agents fired they were not counting their rounds like , one shot pause let's see if the threat has stopped. No they fired several because it happens so fast that's what you do. As I posted in another post. I could write a parking ticket but if you analyzed it and analyzed it I'm sure you could find a reason why I should have not wrote that ticket.
 
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