Special wehrmacht supplement! (1 Viewer)

[Desertkiwi]

Incorrect - they are not rebelling. They are revolting!

.......at last a brother in arms, cheers Jack:salute::........and here was me thinking they could be converted to the 'grey' side:wink2:

 

[TomNT]

Stop it......there was me thinking there was only one Wayne in Australia........silly Kiwi:tongue:

If PA (another Wayne) moves to Oz Toddy you'll be in trouble...^&grin

Incorrect - they are not rebelling. They are revolting!

Hmm, please clarify in what way you are using the word "revolting" in reference to the two Wayne's Jack! :wink2::rolleyes2:^&grin

Tom

 

[Desertkiwi]

If PA (another Wayne) moves to Oz Toddy you'll be in trouble...^&grin



Hmm, please clarify in what way you are using the word "revolting" in reference to the two Wayne's Jack! :wink2::rolleyes2:^&grin

Tom

I can't be in any more trouble than I am with the Mrs right now.......she's just found the C/card statement{eek3}{sm2}^&grin

 

[Poppo]

A prussian german general eating a piece of cheese or bread standing on the road??? Not very realistic, as they used to eat even at the front sitting in a mess or served by attendant in a tent....And german soldiers in France, or Poland or Russia in summer unshaved? Never seen in photos....{sm2}

 

[Mitch]

Poppo...

I have a number of books and pictures that show german troops marching to the next town or city what have you in the campaign in the west and, the summer months of Barbarossa where german troops are covered in dirt and dust and, have messy hair and need shaving. Some of the officers seem to be in better condition but, its a myth that the german army was the best kept in terms of cleanliness etc. The frantic pace of those early victories gave little opportunity for hygeine and appearance that sometimes is shown in the propaganda pictures and home news reels which, show the glorious german army full of life and as if they have stepped from the parade ground.

As for Rommel I have a number of pictures where he is eating in a similar manner albeit from the desert battles but, I would imagine his commanding of the ghost division meant that there was little time to set up the dinner table and pause whilst clearing the west of allied forces.

I suppose its how much one has researched the area (and even then its not wise) but, never seen or never happened are not words that should be used in military history as there are always pictures or, documents that can negate such positives
Mitch

A prussian german general eating a piece of cheese or bread standing on the road??? Not very realistic, as they used to eat even at the front sitting in a mess or served by attendant in a tent....And german soldiers in France, or Poland or Russia in summer unshaved? Never seen in photos....{sm2}

 

[wayne556517]

Here we go..........................^&grin
Unshaven Germans and Rommel eating unrealistic,i think you are being a bit unrealistic.

 

[waynepoo]

A prussian german general eating a piece of cheese or bread standing on the road??? Not very realistic, as they used to eat even at the front sitting in a mess or served by attendant in a tent....And german soldiers in France, or Poland or Russia in summer unshaved? Never seen in photos....{sm2}

Well don't know about that, Erwin seems to like a drink outside the mess and this bloke looks like he needs a shave.....:wink2:
Wayne.

 

[vividgraphx]

A prussian german general eating a piece of cheese or bread standing on the road??? Not very realistic, as they used to eat even at the front sitting in a mess or served by attendant in a tent....And german soldiers in France, or Poland or Russia in summer unshaved? Never seen in photos....{sm2}

I agree with you Poppo. I was going to use the General in a scene in front of a tent with other officers but yes along a road watching a convoy go by is not the Prussian way. And again you are correct in that there are not many photos out there with unshaved German troops marching to or from battles at this stage of the war. I will be using them in a dio of a long march through Russia where they just didn't pause long enough to shave. This issue of shaving is not a rivet counting type of complaint you have,its very legitimate and I hope other members don't just say its not valid. I was disappointed when the KM series was released and there was a Captain with a beard (totally acceptable) but a clean shaven crew. I had to use the clean shaven Captain saluting which still throws the whole dio off for me. And with the KM series I hear not being a big seller I guess there is no hope in getting the proper crew I would love to have. Keith

 

[Fat Boy]

A prussian german general eating a piece of cheese or bread standing on the road??? Not very realistic, as they used to eat even at the front sitting in a mess or served by attendant in a tent....And german soldiers in France, or Poland or Russia in summer unshaved? Never seen in photos....{sm2}

Rommel was not a Prussian! He was a Swabian!!!!! ^&cool^&grin

 

[Poppo]

I agree with you Poppo. I was going to use the General in a scene in front of a tent with other officers but yes along a road watching a convoy go by is not the Prussian way. And again you are correct in that there are not many photos out there with unshaved German troops marching to or from battles at this stage of the war. I will be using them in a dio of a long march through Russia where they just didn't pause long enough to shave. This issue of shaving is not a rivet counting type of complaint you have,its very legitimate and I hope other members don't just say its not valid. I was disappointed when the KM series was released and there was a Captain with a beard (totally acceptable) but a clean shaven crew. I had to use the clean shaven Captain saluting which still throws the whole dio off for me. And with the KM series I hear not being a big seller I guess there is no hope in getting the proper crew I would love to have. Keith

Yes Keith, I also have similar problems..To make a realistic diorama in every details( historic, and logic ) is very hard. As we watch for hours our dios we spot the wrong things! So we are obliged to use imagination to fit the figures in a choerent scene...You made very good examples....
As I often critic, I accept other members' critics about my saying of course, everything is useful to improve our knowledge. And we have all different points of view, but I think KC team should watch more historic photos and historic pictures.....And stop improving prices in this way:I thank God that the rising of prices is not comparable to KC soldiers, otherwise in Europe there would be a 15per cent or more inflaction rate!!

 

[Poppo]

Rommel was not a Prussian! He was a Swabian!!!!! ^&cool^&grin

Ok, I meant that the wehrmacht officer corp was made on the prussian style...And I don' t think Swabians officiers ate in a different way...{sm4}

 

[Phantom Warrior]

It's one thing to critique something that is certainly done wrong, but it's beyond normal rivet counting to critique how Rommel ate a sandwich, or that German soldiers were always shaved (and I've seen lots of pictures where they weren't). Let's worry about the right details, camo and insignia on AFVs and appropriate uniforms on the soldiers first.

Terry

 

[desk11desk12]

Andy:

Back to basics seems to be the theme. I like it. I love the new G.I.’s and the planned releases of Heer troops.

Pricing remains the problem for manufacturers and collectors alike. Higher prices due to poor exchange rates (except in Australia and maybe Canada) and rising costs (fuel, labor, materials, shipping) seems to be creating a new market equilibrium point despite decreasing discretionary income. Heaven help us all if this is the new reality.

I will say that First Legion’s price increase per figure recently has kept me from venturing into any of their ranges. Exception maybe their new Vietnam War range. Hint, hint Andy. LOL.

That’s all I’m going to say on that matter. Again, I like your approach Andy about getting back to WWII basics (my term) and also offering themes different on the same vehicle/ armor (DAK, DDay, etc.).

See you in Chicago,

Carlos

 

[The Military Workshop]

I agree with you Poppo. I was going to use the General in a scene in front of a tent with other officers but yes along a road watching a convoy go by is not the Prussian way. And again you are correct in that there are not many photos out there with unshaved German troops marching to or from battles at this stage of the war. I will be using them in a dio of a long march through Russia where they just didn't pause long enough to shave. This issue of shaving is not a rivet counting type of complaint you have,its very legitimate and I hope other members don't just say its not valid. I was disappointed when the KM series was released and there was a Captain with a beard (totally acceptable) but a clean shaven crew. I had to use the clean shaven Captain saluting which still throws the whole dio off for me. And with the KM series I hear not being a big seller I guess there is no hope in getting the proper crew I would love to have. Keith

Keith and Poppo,
I am no expert in German Generals eating habits whilst on the march or German soldier shaving habits but if I might make some observations anyway.

Poppo says "And german soldiers in France, or Poland or Russia in summer unshaved? Never seen in photos.....". I am sorry but I do not even have to look in books to support my belief that there would have been some unshaven German soldiers marching somewhere in 1940/41. Totally unbelievable that all would be clean shaven.

and then Keith's comment : "And again you are correct in that there are not many photos out there with unshaved German troops marching to or from battles at this stage of the war. I will be using them in a dio of a long march through Russia where they just didn't pause long enough to shave. This issue of shaving is not a rivet counting type of complaint you have,its very legitimate and I hope other members don't just say its not valid".

The announcement says the figures can be 1940 (France) or 1941 (Russia). Keith mentions not many photos which suggest there are some so that contradicts Poppo's view that "never seen in photos" (perhaps he means he has never seen it which is totally different to no such photos existing). Keith says "at this stage of the war" but goes on to say can be used in Russia which is exactly what the K&C announcement says. So even if we accept Keiths expert opinion on German soldier stubble and shaving habits the figures are at least correct for Russia.

It seems that with the KM and these figures the most important factor to Keith is the facial hair. Perhaps the KM guys had an inspection the day before where the Captain said he wanted all clean shaven ! "I had to use the clean shaven Captain saluting which still throws the whole dio off for me" actually made me laugh. No hair on KM bad and too much hair on marching Germans bad.

"This issue of shaving is not a rivet counting type of complaint you have,its very legitimate and I hope other members don't just say its not valid". Sorry to dash your hopes Keith but I do think you are bringing a new level of rivett (stubble) counting to the debate. As I said Poppo is suggesting all soldiers shaved every morning and your comments about using them in Russia indicates some did not shave. In my view somebody's view is not valid on this point even though you say his complaint is legitimate.

As regards Rommel or any German / Prussian / Swabian General not eating and drinking by the side of the road or next to a staff vehicle during 1940/41 is also stretching opinion a little far. I would say the odds that it did happen are pretty good. For me it is easy to imagine a German General sitting having a quick snack in a vehicle or house and then getting out as some of his troops passed.

Hopefully somebody somewhere is looking through their book collections.

Regards
Brett

 

[vividgraphx]

It's one thing to critique something that is certainly done wrong, but it's beyond normal rivet counting to critique how Rommel ate a sandwich, or that German soldiers were always shaved (and I've seen lots of pictures where they weren't). Let's worry about the right details, camo and insignia on AFVs and appropriate uniforms on the soldiers first.

Terry

This is a detail like any other detail. If I have to pay big bucks for a figure I want it right. I am still getting the figures and already know where I'm going to use them in a dio but this is a factor in a figure as much as an insignia is to me. I actually happen to really like these figures even though Rommel looks nothing like the him. Keith

 

[vividgraphx]

Keith and Poppo,
I am no expert in German Generals eating habits whilst on the march or German soldier shaving habits but if I might make some observations anyway.

Poppo says "And german soldiers in France, or Poland or Russia in summer unshaved? Never seen in photos.....". I am sorry but I do not even have to look in books to support my belief that there would have been some unshaven German soldiers marching somewhere in 1940/41. Totally unbelievable that all would be clean shaven.

and then Keith's comment : "And again you are correct in that there are not many photos out there with unshaved German troops marching to or from battles at this stage of the war. I will be using them in a dio of a long march through Russia where they just didn't pause long enough to shave. This issue of shaving is not a rivet counting type of complaint you have,its very legitimate and I hope other members don't just say its not valid".

The announcement says the figures can be 1940 (France) or 1941 (Russia). Keith mentions not many photos which suggest there are some so that contradicts Poppo's view that "never seen in photos" (perhaps he means he has never seen it which is totally different to no such photos existing). Keith says "at this stage of the war" but goes on to say can be used in Russia which is exactly what the K&C announcement says. So even if we accept Keiths expert opinion on German soldier stubble and shaving habits the figures are at least correct for Russia.

It seems that with the KM and these figures the most important factor to Keith is the facial hair. Perhaps the KM guys had an inspection the day before where the Captain said he wanted all clean shaven ! "I had to use the clean shaven Captain saluting which still throws the whole dio off for me" actually made me laugh. No hair on KM bad and too much hair on marching Germans bad.

"This issue of shaving is not a rivet counting type of complaint you have,its very legitimate and I hope other members don't just say its not valid". Sorry to dash your hopes Keith but I do think you are bringing a new level of rivett (stubble) counting to the debate. As I said Poppo is suggesting all soldiers shaved every morning and your comments about using them in Russia indicates some did not shave. In my view somebody's view is not valid on this point even though you say his complaint is legitimate.

As regards Rommel or any German / Prussian / Swabian General not eating and drinking by the side of the road or next to a staff vehicle during 1940/41 is also stretching opinion a little far. I would say the odds that it did happen are pretty good. For me it is easy to imagine a German General sitting having a quick snack in a vehicle or house and then getting out as some of his troops passed.

Hopefully somebody somewhere is looking through their book collections.

Regards
Brett

Brett , I quite like these figures and will be getting all of them even the AFV. And during war I'm sure anything and everything happened. What I'm saying is what is out of the norm. I'm sure meals were ate along the road at some points and shaves were missed. And I'm sure there are photos that support this. I'm sure Andy appreciates you and you can quote me whenever you want to. Keith

 

[Phantom Warrior]

This is a detail like any other detail. If I have to pay big bucks for a figure I want it right. I am still getting the figures and already know where I'm going to use them in a dio but this is a factor in a figure as much as an insignia is to me. I actually happen to really like these figures even though Rommel looks nothing like the him. Keith

Hi Keith. What I mean is camo, insignia and AFVs in certain areas at certain times are verifiable and likely had few exceptions. But things like shaving or eating would likely have had all kinds of variations. It would be very difficult to call unshaven German soldiers or Rommel eating a sandwich wrong or unusual.

Terry

 

[arnhem44mad]

Guys, I think you're missing thebigger picture...ARNHEM!!!!^&grin

 

[Blowtorch]

Poppo...

I have a number of books and pictures that show german troops marching to the next town or city what have you in the campaign in the west and, the summer months of Barbarossa where german troops are covered in dirt and dust and, have messy hair and need shaving.

Yeah, I would concur. Only pretty pictures were selected for Signal & Die Wehrmacht publications. From the veteran pics I see pop up on ebay & in recent books, the German army was more gruff than originally portrayed in the media

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Guys, I think you're missing thebigger picture...ARNHEM!!!!^&grin

Not in the "Wehrmacht Supplement Thread" This is the big picture ^&grin Just Kidding.......Congrats Arnhem44mad on the upcoming OMG ^&grin
We all felt your initial disapointment at first but, that all seems to have changed for the better.