Go for Broke
Sergeant Major
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I still think it was a lack of fire discipline. ICE needs to rotate these guys for rest. Too much stress, being hated all the time.
Things that annoy me (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Combat
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mikemiller1955
Lieutenant General
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Gary...I understand what you're saying...but the officer that disarmed him...was halfway across the street before someone hollered..."he's got a gun"...maybe quite a bit more than a "split second" before they opened fire and killed an unarmed man...the video shows it...
I feel like even Trump realizes that serious mistakes are being made by ICE as he is attempting some "damage control" over the media by removing Bovino from Minneapolis and suspending Bovino's access to commenting anymore on social media...
citizens can see what happened on the video and are questioning both Noem's, Miller's and Bovino's early reporting that Pretti "attacked officers"..."was brandishing a gun"..."was an assassin"..."and wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement"...
and it's not just Democrats or Independents balking over the shootings...a growing number of Republicans are raising grave public concerns...
Kentucky's Republican Representative Thomas Massie said "Carrying a firearm is not a death sentence, it's a Constitutionally protected God given right, and if you don't understand this, you have no business in law enforcement or government"...
Alaska's Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski said..."lawfully carrying a gun does not not justify federal agents killing an American particularly after he was disarmed by one Customs and Border Protection agent, as video of the incident appears to show"...
Vermont's Republican Gov. Phil Scott..."at best it's a law enforcement failure and at worst it's a deliberate federal intimidation and incitement of American citizens"...
Washington's Republican Representative Michael Baumgartner said..."he was deeply disturbed by what I've seen from today's video from Minnesota"...
Louisiana Republican Senator Bill Cassidy...called the shooting "incredibly disturbing"...
these are Republican congressmen and women kicking back at the shooting...and this is just the tip of the iceberg...many more are not happy about this...
Gary...I appreciate your civil comments to me and hope you read my civil responses...
Panzer ace
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I am a staunch Republican. That doesn’t mean I am stuoid or that I just tow the line.
Some Illegal immigrants are bad and some are productive members of our society who deserve legal citizenship.
Some law enforcement personnel are bad and some deserve our admiration and praise.
I take the middle of the road on all of it.
I dare others to do the same.
Some Illegal immigrants are bad and some are productive members of our society who deserve legal citizenship.
Some law enforcement personnel are bad and some deserve our admiration and praise.
I take the middle of the road on all of it.
I dare others to do the same.
Combat
Brigadier General
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There is blame all around for what is going on in MN. The frustrating part is that the chaos and deaths are easily avoidable if those involved exercised any common sense. It seems pretty obvious. Don't go to such a protest with a gun. Have the police keep the protestors a safe distance away from ICE. Train the ICE agents better on how to handle these situations or better yet the local officials should cooperate with ICE to hand over dangerous criminals to avoid the necessity of these raids. No public official should make comments about what happened until after an investigation is completed. Any of the above would go a long way to avoiding these terrible incidents.
tdubel
Lieutenant Colonel
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Doug
Agree, pretty simple, if all would just enforce the law (fed and local) would not be an issue. If you are here illegally and either were a criminal or are now a criminal, there is no sanctuary. I just don't understand how that concept is ignored continually and lost on people. It is not right and why any sane person would "protest" this, I just don't understand and probably never will. And the terrible incidents certainly have a lot of causes to them, all easily preventable without the pure stupidity exerted by some. Again, my main premise is why on earth anyone would ever think it is a good idea to interfere with a law enforcement operation is just beyond me. Dumb, dumber and dumbest.
TD
It is my understanding that law enforcement officers are trained to shout “gun” when they see a firearm to inform all of the other officers of what they are observing. I also understand that when an officer yells "gun," fellow officers are trained to instantly transition to a high-alert, lethal-threat response, which includes drawing their service weapons, immediately seeking cover, and identifying the threat to determine if deadly force is justified to protect themselves or others.
It appears from video analysis that the first shot was discharged by an ICE agent into Pretti immediately after the another agent yelled “gun” while Pretti was unarmed and on his hands and knees with his back to the agent that shot him.
Every agent is unique and could determine the threat level differently. Law enforcement officers should be judged by the totality of the circumstances and not on one single action. It is easy to say that Pretti was not a threat to the ICE agents when they shot him. However we don’t have all the facts and should keep an open mind. ICE agents have a difficult job, sometimes under very stressful conditions. An independent investigation, by a trusted, non-biased, source needs to be undertaken to determine if the shooting was lawful and justified.
Statements made by the administration after the shooting in my opinion did nothing but exacerbate the situation and contributed to the further erosion of public’s faith and trust in our government and institutions. I can understand that they want to support their agents and believe that shooting was justified. But until they have all the facts they should withhold judgment on Pretti’s motives for having a gun on his person and his reason for being at the protest.
It appears from video analysis that the first shot was discharged by an ICE agent into Pretti immediately after the another agent yelled “gun” while Pretti was unarmed and on his hands and knees with his back to the agent that shot him.
Every agent is unique and could determine the threat level differently. Law enforcement officers should be judged by the totality of the circumstances and not on one single action. It is easy to say that Pretti was not a threat to the ICE agents when they shot him. However we don’t have all the facts and should keep an open mind. ICE agents have a difficult job, sometimes under very stressful conditions. An independent investigation, by a trusted, non-biased, source needs to be undertaken to determine if the shooting was lawful and justified.
Statements made by the administration after the shooting in my opinion did nothing but exacerbate the situation and contributed to the further erosion of public’s faith and trust in our government and institutions. I can understand that they want to support their agents and believe that shooting was justified. But until they have all the facts they should withhold judgment on Pretti’s motives for having a gun on his person and his reason for being at the protest.
gk5717
2nd Lieutenant
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I'm sure you have seen the latest video of the beloved ICU nurse a few days before he took one for the team He was spitting at agents and then kicked their vehicle knocking out a tailight. What I don't understand after kicking the vehicle the agent got out of the car and grabbed him but apparently they did not lock him up which is odd to me.
Desertkiwi
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Totally agree. I can't fathom the logic in the slightest, plus local law enforcement not supporting ICE seems petty and childish in the extreme.
I've taken the time to listen to both sides in recent months in an attempt to try and work out what is exactly going on and why. Unfortunately the so called 'protesters' come back short every-time.
Must be a terrible ordeal for the locals to witness though, when all they want to do is get on with their lives and make a living.
Panzer ace
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You can see him carrying in this video.
I am amazed he wasn’t finished off in this instance.
Warrior
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I'm sure this applies to all the male protestors.
mikemiller1955
Lieutenant General
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agreed...
amazed the beloved ICU nurse was not shot to death for kicking a car...
ICE officer in car could have claimed he was in fear for his life...
tdubel
Lieutenant Colonel
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Did anyone see the speech given by the Philadelphia DA - yes District Attorney. It is one of the problems with this entire Country. What he actually said in a Public Forum is probably the worst I have ever seen. The last time I checked a DA is a sworn officer of the Court. Senator Fetterman had a strong response and one I truly agree with. I used to think he was crazy, but as of late, he is the only one it seems with any sanity in the room.
On a more positive note, I do applaud the Federal Government for setting up these automatic retirement accounts along with the generosity of Michael Dell. I cringe a little as this has some socialistic tendencies, but I do think it is a positive reinforcement in today's economy, you need to encourage or have some savings vehicle for the future. Maybe this will help give a leg up to this next generation.
TD
On a more positive note, I do applaud the Federal Government for setting up these automatic retirement accounts along with the generosity of Michael Dell. I cringe a little as this has some socialistic tendencies, but I do think it is a positive reinforcement in today's economy, you need to encourage or have some savings vehicle for the future. Maybe this will help give a leg up to this next generation.
TD
Combat
Brigadier General
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It does make me wonder how someone becomes radicalized to the extent that they are kicking out the taillights of a moving law enforcement vehicle on the street. He otherwise seems like a normal guy but clearly his mind has been affected by the propaganda and political narrative. Ironically, he became the victim of that propaganda. That's not to say that his death was justified. I do think the officers involved made serious mistakes but Pretti interjected himself into these situations. And nothing can undo that.
mikemiller1955
Lieutenant General
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while I'm a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment...and I'm not justifying the shooting by any means...and while it was his legal Constitutional right to carry a gun...I am thoroughly convinced the ICE officers grossly over reacted...still...a sad ending...but...you play stupid games and you win stupid prizes...I would not have taken a gun to peaceful rally...and again...Pretti got a horrible over reaction by ICE...totally unnecessary...
Go for Broke
Sergeant Major
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People react differently to situations. I have a friend who when we went bicycling would slap the car with his hand when the car came too close to us in traffic. He was a good guy, but I always thought he did the wrong thing and would get us in an unnecessary fight. That's why Pretti is dead and we're alive. Still backing Mike Miller.
tdubel
Lieutenant Colonel
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Reading all of the posts here, there is a common theme. People continue to do very stupid things and there are consequences to them. I like the post on biking, how true. I always worry when I see a cyclist on the country roads I drive and NOT because I don't like them or think they should be there, more about safety, so I show a lot of deference. However, as I have witnessed, not everyone does both cyclist and drivers.
I also think it is a fair point on the training of ICE as well as what they are capable of. They are not trained the same way local officers are (IE crowd control, etc). It sure would make a lot more sense if they all worked together and I think it is not wrong or a lot to ask local officials and jails to turn over criminals to Immigration, common sense to me there.
On a side note, I have mentioned my cousin is a recently retired Federal Marshal, happened to discuss this with him and he told me that the other issue is there are a lot of federal agents who have refused transfers and promotion to ICE enforcement not because they don't believe in it or want to do it, but more because of the spotlight and lack of cooperation. Can't say as I blame them, it is truly a thankless job as most law enforcement is.
Final note - I still vehemently disagree with paid protests under the guise of Free Speech which are funded and designed to create chaos. It is just ridiculous that this is tolerated in our society, in some ways, it goes totally against our freedoms.
TD
I also think it is a fair point on the training of ICE as well as what they are capable of. They are not trained the same way local officers are (IE crowd control, etc). It sure would make a lot more sense if they all worked together and I think it is not wrong or a lot to ask local officials and jails to turn over criminals to Immigration, common sense to me there.
On a side note, I have mentioned my cousin is a recently retired Federal Marshal, happened to discuss this with him and he told me that the other issue is there are a lot of federal agents who have refused transfers and promotion to ICE enforcement not because they don't believe in it or want to do it, but more because of the spotlight and lack of cooperation. Can't say as I blame them, it is truly a thankless job as most law enforcement is.
Final note - I still vehemently disagree with paid protests under the guise of Free Speech which are funded and designed to create chaos. It is just ridiculous that this is tolerated in our society, in some ways, it goes totally against our freedoms.
TD
Desertkiwi
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At least you guys are still talking to each other, you may be poles apart in opinion, however the discussion continues……It’s when dialogue ends that bad things happen.
The tragedy of course is how the west has become so fractured. Society is openly divided on a range of topics and middle ground seems distant and almost unattainable. Meanwhile the vultures are circling.
The tragedy of course is how the west has become so fractured. Society is openly divided on a range of topics and middle ground seems distant and almost unattainable. Meanwhile the vultures are circling.