1st Legion's New Stug (2 Viewers)

[Steven Chong]

... 1. Materials - only the tracks and bogey/fly wheels are plastic (two different types, ABS and PVC). The rest of the tank is resin with some metal parts and some photo etched parts ...

Synthetic resin is a "plastic," so in my opinion, the Stug is composed of "plastic."

... 2. Crew Figures - I really don't understand the comments about the crew ...

I am merely stating my opinion and understand your point regarding the highly belted pants. I waited till the Chicago Show so I could personally inspect your WWII figures before making a purchasing decision, and I did the same before purchasing your Napoleonic figures. I thought the proportions of the WWII figures looked funny and finally concluded the legs have the appearance of being lengthened or stretched out of proportion to the trunk and head. Again, this is my personal opinion. Several forum members at the Chicago Show certainly had a different opinion and purchased the 1st Legion WWII figures.

... 3. Painting - I strongly disagree that the painting is factory fresh. Is it just me or are you missing all of the shadows and highlights as each square section and each recessed hatch outline is meticulously shaded around the edges and highlighted in the center. Water stains and scratches have been added abundantly as well ...

If you reread my statement, you will note I wrote "almost factory fresh like a K&C vehicle," not "factory fresh." I certainly noticed the subtle weathering and purchased a Stug because I liked the look. I was speaking towards the cleaner look propagated by K&C as opposed to the heavily weathered style of Figarti.

... 5. Scale - This really is the last time I'm going to talk about this! The Stug is 1/30th scale, the crew is 1/30th scale. Steve, you have the tank and crew there, measure them. Put it next to another Stug in your collection - I'd be curious to hear about how it is size wise next to other "1/30th" vehicles. The figures may be smaller than K&C figures, but they're 1/30th scale. If K&C figures are larger, so be it. I've always said ours are stylistically different in any case. But our figures and stug are in scale with each other and that's really all that matters.

Again, please note that my post does not mention 1/30 scale or offer an opinion on the actual scale of the 1st Legion Stug or crew. I was merely stating that the 1st Legion WWII figures were much smaller than comparable K&C figures i.e. when comparing two standing figures in similar poses. Let me state that in my opinion, K&C WWII figures and vehicles vary in scale from 1/28 to 1/31 and is not a uniform 1/30 scale. I made this statement because some collectors who do not have a chance to personally inspect your figures at a show or before purchase might want to display your figures with K&C. Certainly, there are many collectors who do not care if their figures are different sizes in the same display. K&C is the market leader with the widest variety of figures and sets, so all the other manufacturers will unfortunately be compared to them. Since you do raise the issue of scale by stating your WWII figures are 1/30 scale, I think you should correct the portions of the 1st Legion website that prominently state the 1st Legion WWII figures are 54 mm, misleadingly suggesting the figures are smaller than what you now state.

As stated repeatedly, this is just one collector's opinion and there are certainly differing and opposing opinions. 1st Legion has launched their first vehicle, and I think forum members might be interested in the opinion of someone who actually owns the piece and has talked to other collectors about it. Collectors and Forum members should not feel it necessary to disparage the opinions of others simply because they disagree with their view. Collect what you like -- I have a 1st Legion Stug.

 

[Deitz]

I think pretty much all of the manufacturers get hammered, K&C included.

Always plenty of comments banded around: First Legion are too light, K&C are factually incorrect, Figarti are too fragile, CS have hinges which are too big, K&C have incorrect markings, First Legion are plastic (I know - resin ), Figarti are too weathered, CS aren't weathered enough, all are the wrong / right / 54mm / 60mm / 70mm scale(delete as appropriate), etc, etc....

There are some who are prepared to fault whatever comes out and I suppose this forum provides an outlet for those views.

I'm just glad we've got all of these options available to us, so we, the collector, can make the choices that suit us as individuals.

Well said.

 

[Vezzolf]

Despite the critiques of the First legion Stug in this thread it is interesting to note that the Stug was "indeed purchased"..by Steve (and others)....It must be that he considered it was worthy of being purchased.......I hope that will be the case with those of us who are waiting for ours to arrive.....I think that it will be a popular item....it will be different from polystone;& hopefully a better product than what we have become accustom to from K/C and Figarti......ALL MY OPINION of course

 

[desk11desk12]

I think pretty much all of the manufacturers get hammered, K&C included.

Always plenty of comments banded around: First Legion are too light, K&C are factually incorrect, Figarti are too fragile, CS have hinges which are too big, K&C have incorrect markings, First Legion are plastic (I know - resin ), Figarti are too weathered, CS aren't weathered enough, all are the wrong / right / 54mm / 60mm / 70mm scale(delete as appropriate), etc, etc....

There are some who are prepared to fault whatever comes out and I suppose this forum provides an outlet for those views.

I'm just glad we've got all of these options available to us, so we, the collector, can make the choices that suit us as individuals.

AMEN!

Carlos

 

[tdubel]

Wow, guess my OPINION struck a nerve. Let me repeat for the folks that take things personally. I have an OPINION, a BIG OPINION. I do what I like, you should do what you like. IN MY OPINION, this is not the best vehicle on the market, so I believe if hat eating is in order, so be it! Again, my opinion.

NOW, let me see on K&C, if you will recall, I gave my BIG OPINION on the fact that the German Shepherd they produced on their first try was a drowned water rat, yes that is what I thought.

NOW, let's discuss Figarti, I believe that the packaging used to be >>>>>>>>>>>>> and required 500 repairs once an item came in and yes, they still produce some figures that are bad., repeat bad.

NOW, let's discuss CS, I think they have nice innovation, yet the paintjobs and sculpting never live up to the pictures for me. Did I mention they produced a nice 88mm gun?

And finally, I liked plastic playsets as a kid, I have a 5 year old that likes them now. As an adult, I prefer METAL and HEAVY POLYSTONE. Again, my opinion, my preference.

Did I mention my real love is Trophy Figures which are the epitome (again my opinion) of toy soldiers???

I hope I have now duly offended all readers with my opinion. No I don't take anything personally, I just like to fuel the fire, it is quite amusing the turns this thing takes.

WOW, I know I buy what I like, could care less what others think, but I do like reading reveiws as I formulate my own opinions. I would suggest to all collectors, stop drinking the kool aid and quit smoking the vegetation and just simply buy what you want and what you like, it would save you a lot of heartache!!!!!

TD

 

[The Breaker]

tdubel,
I have the two FL Stugs on order, a tenative Figarti JS-2 on order, K & C Jagdpanzer IV on order and the CS Carbineers on order. I do buy what I want. It is just really amusing to watch you bounce from thread to thread giving your "Big Opinion."
Most of the members on the forum are 18-88 years old we're adults who form our own opinion and buy what we want.
If First Legion's success didn't strike a nerve with you " I'll eat my hat."

 

[tdubel]

tdubel,
I have the two FL Stugs on order, a tenative Figarti JS-2 on order, K & C Jagdpanzer IV on order and the CS Carbineers on order. I do buy what I want. It is just really amusing to watch you bounce from thread to thread giving your "Big Opinion."
Most of the members on the forum are 18-88 years old we're adults who form our own opinion and buy what we want.
If First Legion's success didn't strike a nerve with you " I'll eat my hat."

Think you are off base and missed my points, I buy from every manufacturer as I do buy what I want to the tune of a lot of soldiers. I like every manufacturer and wish them well, I hope you enjoy hat eating as I like Matt's company and love his Napoleonics and give him great credit for them. I believe that my criticism (opinion) is strictly that, my opinion, I don't think I have ever said his Stugs are not good, I just listed my preference.

If you can't understand the sarcasm of a "big opinion" I truly feel sorry for you, why make it personal??? Maybe it struck a nerve with you, eh?

Basically, I think you need to re read what I wrote and realize you are off base. I say hats off to you, buy what you want , which is what I said. I believe I was making fun of folks who take this so personal and folks who have a hard time believing others have differing opinons???

I apologize to the few folks on here who don't know me, as most of you know, I like to fuel the fire every once in awhile just to get a response like this one, comical.........

TD

 

[FirstLegion]

Synthetic resin is a "plastic," so in my opinion, the Stug is composed of "plastic."



I am merely stating my opinion and understand your point regarding the highly belted pants. I waited till the Chicago Show so I could personally inspect your WWII figures before making a purchasing decision, and I did the same before purchasing your Napoleonic figures. I thought the proportions of the WWII figures looked funny and finally concluded the legs have the appearance of being lengthened or stretched out of proportion to the trunk and head. Again, this is my personal opinion. Several forum members at the Chicago Show certainly had a different opinion and purchased the 1st Legion WWII figures.



If you reread my statement, you will note I wrote "almost factory fresh like a K&C vehicle," not "factory fresh." I certainly noticed the subtle weathering and purchased a Stug because I liked the look. I was speaking towards the cleaner look propagated by K&C as opposed to the heavily weathered style of Figarti.



Again, please note that my post does not mention 1/30 scale or offer an opinion on the actual scale of the 1st Legion Stug or crew. I was merely stating that the 1st Legion WWII figures were much smaller than comparable K&C figures i.e. when comparing two standing figures in similar poses. Let me state that in my opinion, K&C WWII figures and vehicles vary in scale from 1/28 to 1/31 and is not a uniform 1/30 scale. I made this statement because some collectors who do not have a chance to personally inspect your figures at a show or before purchase might want to display your figures with K&C. Certainly, there are many collectors who do not care if their figures are different sizes in the same display. K&C is the market leader with the widest variety of figures and sets, so all the other manufacturers will unfortunately be compared to them. Since you do raise the issue of scale by stating your WWII figures are 1/30 scale, I think you should correct the portions of the 1st Legion website that prominently state the 1st Legion WWII figures are 54 mm, misleadingly suggesting the figures are smaller than what you now state.

As stated repeatedly, this is just one collector's opinion and there are certainly differing and opposing opinions. 1st Legion has launched their first vehicle, and I think forum members might be interested in the opinion of someone who actually owns the piece and has talked to other collectors about it. Collectors and Forum members should not feel it necessary to disparage the opinions of others simply because they disagree with their view. Collect what you like -- I have a 1st Legion Stug.

All very valid points Steve and you are certainly entitled to your opinions. I just find it interesting that you just spent $300 on a vehicle and had very little positive to say about it short of "Ultimately, I bought it because I liked the look of it." Hey, I guess that's what its all about in the end and buying it speaks volumes.

I find it even more interesting that you have over 100 of our Napoleonic figures, a considerable investment, and I don't think you've ever once stated anything on this forum about collecting our figures or participated in really any First Legion discussion at all. Nothing wrong with this of course, I just find it interesting.

Anyway, glad you bought the tank and good to hear that our Napoleonics apparently aren't too shabby either.

Regards,

Matt

 

[desk11desk12]

LOL

Hey Steven:

I'm sure but I think you were just insulted...LOL.

The phrase "All very valid points Steve and you, like both the smartest and most obtuse and curmudgeonly among us, are certainly entitled to your opinions. "...I just love those big fancy words. Oh wiat, that phrase didn't get edited out of the last post did it?

Carlos

 

[The Breaker]

You see we do agree on something!

 

[jazzeum]

Folks, please settle down.

As a collector and participant in this Forum (who's starting to wonder if that makes sense), I've come to find these threads, as well as the one about K & C Corner, colossal wastes of time. As the moderator, it's your choice to have them, as long as you keep them civil.

 

[Spitfrnd]

Well I guess there ain't too many physicists & engineers in this hobby. State of the art materials = highest performance & lightest weight. You ain't gonna get to Mars without it.

Also, no offense to Steven Chong, but can we have a sticky on this scale issue? It's really getting distracting from more important matters

LOL

Hey Steven:

I'm sure but I think you were just insulted...LOL.

The phrase "All very valid points Steve and you, like both the smartest and most obtuse and curmudgeonly among us, are certainly entitled to your opinions. "...I just love those big fancy words. Oh wiat, that phrase didn't get edited out of the last post did it?

Carlos

You lost me Carlos, were you saying that you all want to be known by those labels or attempting a wee bit of humor? I am a bit lost on who was really insulted here? This thread has become a bit tedious hasn't it? If one bloke likes heavy things and another likes accurate, what really is the issue; shouldn't they both be free to like what they like for whatever reason? For what it is worth, I personally like accurate, that is why I buy what I buy and why (even though they are heavy) I have more FL Napoleonics than Steven.

 

[FirstLegion]

LOL

Hey Steven:

I'm sure but I think you were just insulted...LOL.

The phrase "All very valid points Steve and you, like both the smartest and most obtuse and curmudgeonly among us, are certainly entitled to your opinions. "...I just love those big fancy words. Oh wiat, that phrase didn't get edited out of the last post did it?

Carlos

Actually I edited that out and it was not directed at Steven at all. It was meant to be tongue in cheek but in rereading it I realized that it wasn't coming across that way, so I deleted it. Further, I realized that people would think those comments were directed at the wrong people. Those who know me would know, but not the casual reader.

I grow weary of this thread. It's the same thing, different day.

Matt

 

[tdubel]

Folks, please settle down.

As a collector and participant in this Forum (who's starting to wonder if that makes sense), I've come to find these threads, as well as the one about K & C Corner, colossal wastes of time. As the moderator, it's your choice to have them, as long as you keep them civil.

Brad,
here here. Unfortunately, you are correct, expressing opinion is always taken personally by somebody or another. I have always liked nearly all that was released, jeez, if you see the warehouse, you can understand my point. I collect it all, literally and figuratively. From K&C, Britains, Figarti, Trophy, Kingcast, Marlborough, Steadfast, Marktime, Hocker, Fusilier, Tommy Atkins, Good Soldiers, First Legion, CS, and a number of others, I am in the middle of inventory of my collection and I am at 39 large boxes with no end in sight. That said, on this board, no matter what your opinion, you offend someone. Why collectors consider it a personal affront when someone else doesn't like the same product, I scratch my head?

TD

 

[kogu]

It is very difficult for me to understand this subject (weight).
The "Toys" or "Miniatures" we are buying are most likely meant to be displayed either in a curio cabinet or in a diorama scene and not to be handled or "played with" all the time. Unfortuanately those times are over for many of us who used to "play" with figures, vehicles, scenics and such.
So, wether it be plastic, resin, metal, polystone or whatever, if the sculpting/design and painting is good, how does the weight come in here for evaulation of the overall quality?
Who of you can tell what it is made of, when looking through the glass of a curio cabinet and admiring a figure or vehicle because it looks beautiful?
Konrad

 

[jazzeum]

Tom,

That makes two of us but I gather we are not alone.

 

[IXEC]

Can anyone here on this thread that has purchase a FL Stug, please, please give us some kind of measurement. Or at least show a side by side photo with anything, anything, a set of false teeth, a brand name candy bar, a 12oz. can of beer, a size 8 shoe, a babies arm holding an apple, something, anything, please.....

 

[vandilay]

Following this thread from begining to end has left me scratching my head
a bit ,
I thought it was a solid revue [ I didnt read anything overly critical in it]
and for those of us who collect in isolation [ie no shows or shops to check
this stuff out first hand ] is one of the reasons I follow this forum.

All the other brohaha becomes like fishing through spam at times .

 

[SteveDavid]

Why do you add to the spam then?

Point is someone, to add fuel to the fire, says something to which some don't agree and those people react. Are these the fools then? If I would express my big opinion on any figure/vehicle I don't like, I would be very busy. That is my point.

Steven did a detailed review which is fine-correct or not- and did not just say 'I don't like plastics it's too light'. So be it, but go after them who created the sourness of this thread, not to those that reacted to it.

TheBreaker: fully agree with you.

 

[vandilay]

Why do you add to the spam then?

Point is someone, to add fuel to the fire, says something to which some don't agree and those people react. Are these the fools then? If I would express my big opinion on any figure/vehicle I don't like, I would be very busy. That is my point.

Steven did a detailed review which is fine-correct or not- and did not just say 'I don't like plastics it's too light'. So be it, but go after them who created the sourness of this thread, not to those that reacted to it.

TheBreaker: fully agree with you.

Quote
Why do you add to the spam then?

Because I wanted to say I thought it was a good product review.
In future I,ll just say thanks and leave it at that.