a dreaded scale question (2 Viewers)

[armchair warrior]

Guys,

Looking at my new 253 and Hetzer. Looking at some of my TGM WWII infantry figures. I can't help but think the vehicles look too small. The Hetzer is a 4 man vehicle that is 7ft. 1 in. in height according to Wikipedia. I just don't think four figures can fit in that Hetzer and when I stand them next to the vehicle they are shorter but only slightly, as if they were all about 6-6 to 6-8 in height. Just looking for observations. I am not trying to rip on TGM. I love their products and are all I collect anymore. Just curious if my eyes are misleading me. Please weigh in you AFV experts out there.

Armchair Warrior

 

[Go for Broke]

TGM, KC & Figarti all make small AFVs in relation to the size of their soldiers. I look at the tank hatches and know that the soldiers can not fit through them. The Collectors Showcase tried to make the right size tanks, but was shot down. I applaud their efforts. Tanks and armoured cars were huge and imposing on the battlefield and should be represented as such in our collections. I think the main resistance is collectors have 100s of undersized AFVs and don't want to upgrade/modernize to the correct AFV size to their soldiers.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Guys,

Looking at my new 253 and Hetzer. Looking at some of my TGM WWII infantry figures. I can't help but think the vehicles look too small. The Hetzer is a 4 man vehicle that is 7ft. 1 in. in height according to Wikipedia. I just don't think four figures can fit in that Hetzer and when I stand them next to the vehicle they are shorter but only slightly, as if they were all about 6-6 to 6-8 in height. Just looking for observations. I am not trying to rip on TGM. I love their products and are all I collect anymore. Just curious if my eyes are misleading me. Please weigh in you AFV experts out there.

Armchair Warrior

You've hit on one of the basic scale problems in the toy soldier industry. Several years ago, K&C started making the vehicles 1:30 scale (an increase from 1:32), but they liked the larger figures so they made them 1:28 scale. Most other manufacturers followed, so most company's figures are too large for the vehicle.

Terry

 

[Phantom Warrior]

TGM, KC & Figarti all make small AFVs in relation to the size of their soldiers. I look at the tank hatches and know that the soldiers can not fit through them. The Collectors Showcase tried to make the right size tanks, but was shot down. I applaud their efforts. Tanks and armoured cars were huge and imposing on the battlefield and should be represented as such in our collections. I think the main resistance is collectors have 100s of undersized AFVs and don't want to upgrade/modernize to the correct AFV size to their soldiers.

The AFVs are not undersized - you could just as easily say it's the figures that are oversized. There is no correct scale. The problem is the AFVs and figures are different scales.

Terry

 

[Go for Broke]

Okay. Oversized soldiers and correct sized AFVs.{sm4} BTW, get the Puma. Its a beauty.

 

[Mr Scott]

You've hit on one of the basic scale problems in the toy soldier industry. Several years ago, K&C started making the vehicles 1:30 scale (an increase from 1:32), but they liked the larger figures so they made them 1:28 scale. Most other manufacturers followed, so most company's figures are too large for the vehicle.

Terry

I think you have summed up the whole issue extremely well; I concur entirely with every word.

Cheers Scott

 

[Guy]

Gents,
yes all TS are a bit oversized, but problem can be easily solved. I did the same when I was mixing 1/32 scale with 1/35 scale in my dios.
If you want your AFV's to look bigger, place them on higher ground in the dio than the soldiers and problem solved . I add a picture of 1/35 soldiers mixed with 1/32 scale tanks (FoV- here I've put the tank a bit lower than the soldiers , just next to the road the soldiers are moving on)
guy

 

[Mitch]

Terry summed it up correctly. figures are bigger than the vehicles. I have to say that I prefer the larger scale that makers such as TG, K&C CS are doing than other manufacturers. Thats just a personal choice and one which, I accept and am used to.
Mitch

 

[lancer]

TGM, KC & Figarti all make small AFVs in relation to the size of their soldiers. I look at the tank hatches and know that the soldiers can not fit through them. The Collectors Showcase tried to make the right size tanks, but was shot down. I applaud their efforts. Tanks and armoured cars were huge and imposing on the battlefield and should be represented as such in our collections. I think the main resistance is collectors have 100s of undersized AFVs and don't want to upgrade/modernize to the correct AFV size to their soldiers.

Good point about CS. The last Wittmann Tiger they did was correctly sized to the figures, but a lot of people were upset about the size increase. It would have made their other vehicles undersized when put next to them. I was thrilled that CS made a Tiger the correct size for the figures. It is my favorite piece, and finally projected the massive size these vehicles really were. -- Al

 

[Blowtorch]

Looking at my new 253 and Hetzer

The smaller the vehicle, the more noticeable the scale discrepancy. You should see a FL motorcycle; It's probably true 1/30 yet much smaller than a typical K&C motorcycle, so K&C obviously upscales the tiny vehicles to >1/30 where needed. And look at the SkKfz 7 models which have been released. Should seat 11 comfortably. CS seats 8. Think K&C did likewise.

I can't help but wonder if this is why we never see halftrack troop carriers in this hobby. Remember the outcry when K&C used dwarfs for their Hummel crew.

It's quite a conundrum. Collectors want 1/28 figs & 1/30 vehicles, but that combination works ok when we are talking Tigers & Jagdtigers & less so hetzers & impossible with motorcycles & the like

 

[vividgraphx]

It should all be changed so that soldiers and vehicles are the same size regardless if its 1/30 or 1/28 and regardless of what the manufacturer has done in the past. Keith

 

[armchair warrior]

Guys,


Thanks for all the feedback. I am glad to know it is not my imagination or 51 year old eyesight telling me the vehicles are too small, or the soldiers too big if you prefer to put it that way. It is kind of frustrating, I agree with the last post that they should match up. But we must deal with the world as it is not as we wish it was. Or just focus on Napoleonics where there are no AFV'S, hmmm there's a thought. TGM Naps are quite impressive as I stated in starting an earlier thread. It is always a challenge in this hobby to figure out where to go with future purchases. I guess that's part of the fun of it.

Armchair Warrior

 

[Hunter Rose]

Yep, the smaller AFV issue is the only thing that has kept me from buying the TG Hetzer. It just looks too small to my eye, especially the mounted MG-34 that looks smaller than MP-40s that the figures wield. Too bad there was so much outcry over the last TCS Tiger, because as others have said this is one AFV that looks correct with figures. I wish TCS would continue the larger AFV trend and others would follow suit.

TG makes extraordinary looking vehicles, I just wish they were a little larger.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Guys,

Looking at my new 253 and Hetzer. Looking at some of my TGM WWII infantry figures. I can't help but think the vehicles look too small. The Hetzer is a 4 man vehicle that is 7ft. 1 in. in height according to Wikipedia. I just don't think four figures can fit in that Hetzer and when I stand them next to the vehicle they are shorter but only slightly, as if they were all about 6-6 to 6-8 in height. Just looking for observations. I am not trying to rip on TGM. I love their products and are all I collect anymore. Just curious if my eyes are misleading me. Please weigh in you AFV experts out there.

Armchair Warrior

You would think buying from the same company that the 1/30 scale figures would have the vehicles that come out match as far as size goes. It does both the figures and the vehicles injustice when both do not match up together.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

You would think buying from the same company that the 1/30 scale figures would have the vehicles that come out match as far as size goes. It does both the figures and the vehicles injustice when both do not match up together.

From what I understand it evolved that way. 1:32 was the scale Britains used - I'm guessing for both figures and vehicles. When K&C came on the scene, they favoured larger figures but kept the 1:32 scale for AFVs. Several years ago they increased to size of vehicles to 1:30 more in line with the figures. Figarti started with 1:32 AFVs and 1:32 figures later switching to 1:30 AFVs as their figures began increasing to match the size of the K&C figures. Same for Honour Bound. TGM patterned itself on the K&C formula from the start. CS has fluctuated between 1:30 and 1:28 as they tried to resolve the mismatched scale problem but has found it's not so easy. FL has been true to 1:30 for both AFVs and figures but some of their figure only series like the Rennaissance figures are almost K&C size. I'm not sure about JJD who uses different scales at times, or Britains who I believe stayed at 1:32 for everything?

When the industry leader in volume chose scales, some of the other manufacturers followed suit. There is a long history of mismatched scale and large collections of AFVs at 1:30 with 1:28 figures. Hard for one company to move the industry unless K&C decided to and some of the other manufacturers agreed. I've been told that collectors prefer the larger 1:28 for figures and the 1:30 scale for AFVs.

Terry

 

[Mitch]

My preference is to keep ensuring the AFV's are 1/30th scale. That is set in stone. Figures has never really bothered me in their exactness as figure height is more flexible and forgiving. Agree that it can look strange on some of the soft skin AFV's but, wonder how much interest there is from collectors of TG, K&C and CS to see the size of figure change to exact 1/30th scale?
Mitch

 

[Hunter Rose]

Agree that it can look strange on some of the soft skin AFV's but, wonder how much interest there is from collectors of TG, K&C and CS to see the size of figure change to exact 1/30th scale?
Mitch

I don't think you are asking the right question. In all these threads on scale, and I have participated in a couple, everyone seems to like the size of the figures. There really doesn't seem to be much interest I think in TG, KC, CS making the figures smaller. The difference in opinion that I have seen is between those like yourself who prefer the exact 1/30th for AFVs and those like myself who want the AFVs to get larger to 1/28th to match the figures. Most seem to be happy with the size of the figures as is.

Just my opinion.

 

[Firebat]

I was ready to sell all of my Britains and ONWTC 1/32 stuff, now I find it fits well with many 1/30 pieces. Also FL is fitting with certain items. And I am starting to use a lot of TCS AFV's with my main stream 1/30 figures, because they appear to be the largest in general. This irritates me to no end.

Sometimes I feel like getting out of the hobby all together.

MAKE EVERYTHING THE SAME SIZE PLEASE !!! Alex

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I don't think you are asking the right question. In all these threads on scale, and I have participated in a couple, everyone seems to like the size of the figures. There really doesn't seem to be much interest I think in TG, KC, CS making the figures smaller. The difference in opinion that I have seen is between those like yourself who prefer the exact 1/30th for AFVs and those like myself who want the AFVs to get larger to 1/28th to match the figures. Most seem to be happy with the size of the figures as is.

Just my opinion.

I actually prefer the 1:28 figures and the 1:32 AFVs which are big enough for me. But they don't look good together. I find the 1:30 AFVs too big for my displays and 1:28 moreso. I find the 1:30 and 1:32 figures too small. For me, the 1:30 AFVs and 1:28 figures are the preferred compromise.

Terry

 

[OzDigger]

Guys,

Looking at my new 253 and Hetzer. Looking at some of my TGM WWII infantry figures. I can't help but think the vehicles look too small. The Hetzer is a 4 man vehicle that is 7ft. 1 in. in height according to Wikipedia. I just don't think four figures can fit in that Hetzer and when I stand them next to the vehicle they are shorter but only slightly, as if they were all about 6-6 to 6-8 in height. Just looking for observations. I am not trying to rip on TGM. I love their products and are all I collect anymore. Just curious if my eyes are misleading me. Please weigh in you AFV experts out there.

Armchair Warrior

I noticed the small size of their vehicles when the Kubel was issued and then the Ketten confirmed it. However before we get carried away with broad statements of oversized figures, has anyone measured the TGM vehicles to see if they are actually 1/30, or are they closer to 1/32.