A Real Reality Check (4 Viewers)

[Thompyt]

As with many things, its not what you say, its what you dont say. What you imply by your language, as it were. Your message is to K&C is essentially: "I am taking away my (considerable?) business unless you lower your prices, so you best pay heed."

Ever bought a home? You can threaten a seller all day long about what you will or wont pay. At the end of the day the only way to get their attention is to make a specific bid - or not. Everything else is just noise.

A true statement on purchases by one person. When John Q. Public raises its head as a group and states to the realtor, we will buy for X amount and thats that. The realtor has to bend to put food on the table. A comprimise will be met. This is the whole point of the thread. Letting K&C know in a public forum the dis-satisfaction its feeling about the percieved overly large rate increase.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

rob, i have a problem, the b-17 aluminium overcast is coming to davenport iowa this weekend and they are offering rides. My question is do i buy the typhoon or go for a $439 ride on my favorite plain the b-17 ? What a dilemma

Buy the Typhoon. You will be able to enjoy it as often as you like !!! How long will the plane ride last 30 min to an hour ????

 

[HAWKEYE]

buy the typhoon. You will be able to enjoy it as often as you like !!! How long will the plane ride last 30 min to an hour ????

30 minutes, but such a beautiful plane. Last year outside detroit there was a last gathering of the 8th air force and they had 9 b-17s but they were all booked up by the time i got there. The pity was i actually had the extra $400 last year. I will let you know what happens

 

[HAWKEYE]

Also, actually at that price for a typhoon i think they will be around for awhile. Probably not as long as the $299 tank transporter but they will be out there for awhile.

 

[Vezzolf]

A true statement on purchases by one person. When John Q. Public raises its head as a group and states to the realtor, we will buy for X amount and thats that. The realtor has to bend to put food on the table. A comprimise will be met. This is the whole point of the thread. Letting K&C know in a public forum the dis-satisfaction its feeling about the percieved overly large rate increase.

Well Said^&cool

 

[Rutledge]

A true statement on purchases by one person. When John Q. Public raises its head as a group and states to the realtor, we will buy for X amount and thats that. The realtor has to bend to put food on the table. A comprimise will be met. This is the whole point of the thread. Letting K&C know in a public forum the dis-satisfaction its feeling about the percieved overly large rate increase.

Well Said^&cool

So a "collective threat" from Forum members? What if K&C still sells out the plane inventory? What if K&C lowers price to make collectors "happy" but also determines future production of similarmodel is not viable? Is that a desirable outcome, too?

There is always more than one choice. These include:
- Eliminate distribution network (ala FL) {buy bye TS Dealers?}
- Lower quality while maintaining price points
- Re-establish product line toward much higher (or lower) end
- Initiate an aggressive pricing strategy to drive smaller competitors out of business. Given the tenuous nature of most TS companies, this might not be too hard to do - especially for a market leader like K&C. It would be beneficial to collectors in the short run, but detrimental in the long run
-Ultimately, if an acceptable ROI is not achievable, the business WILL/MUST shut itself down/cease production. Surviving companies would then have better chance of maintaining their price points as overall supply diminishes. Fewer choices, higher prices = Bad outcome for collectors.

 

[rws591]

So right you are !!! Part of the "FUN" of collecting is the slow acquisition process !

The biggest problem in my book is the fact that the slow acquisition process isn't being respected due to the influx in strictly limiteds and the quickness that some of the great items get retired. This forces collectors to buy more now!

But what really grinds my gears is what I perceive as nickel and diming. I have no intrest in the new priest because it's not in my range, but the idea a collector has to buy two sets to complete an AFV is ridiculous. I'm afraid similar pricing strategies will leak into non-open air AFVs and into other lines. Will we be buying all of the tank crews separately?

I'm not so afraid of what has happen, but that what has happened may become a trend.

 

[Thompyt]

So a "collective threat" from Forum members? What if K&C still sells out the plane inventory? What if K&C lowers price to make collectors "happy" but also determines future production of similarmodel is not viable? Is that a desirable outcome, too?

There is always more than one choice. These include:
- Eliminate distribution network (ala FL) {buy bye TS Dealers?}
- Lower quality while maintaining price points
- Re-establish product line toward much higher (or lower) end
- Initiate an aggressive pricing strategy to drive smaller competitors out of business. Given the tenuous nature of most TS companies, this might not be too hard to do - especially for a market leader like K&C. It would be beneficial to collectors in the short run, but detrimental in the long run
-Ultimately, if an acceptable ROI is not achievable, the business WILL/MUST shut itself down/cease production. Surviving companies would then have better chance of maintaining their price points as overall supply diminishes. Fewer choices, higher prices = Bad outcome for collectors.

LOL we are getting deep into micro/macro economics aren't we. Of course there are always other options. If K&C sells out at current price, then they have developed a passable price limit. Collectors are willing to pay. The chance taken is the collctor may buy this one item instead of several others. Several others normally would exceed the price of one A/C. I believe they have enough margin to lower the costs and still complete R&D for new projects. Additionally the trend is for the business to resprray the object for another theater, increasing the profit by maximizing the molds. Collectors would not like to see K&C do the Microsoft push. For the price stated I would expect quality detailing. A loss on quality shoudl decrease the price, I agree. Lets not hope this happens. This is only a start in a trend we all hope stops. Most TS companies are well set in the nich market, and are likely here for the duration. More companies, more choice, happier collector. The competition should help keep the pricing down. Unless they all get together and have a complete price increase. If they can do it, why can't we process.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

LOL we are getting deep into micro/macro economics aren't we. Of course there are always other options. If K&C sells out at current price, then they have developed a passable price limit. Collectors are willing to pay. The chance taken is the collctor may buy this one item instead of several others. Several others normally would exceed the price of one A/C. I believe they have enough margin to lower the costs and still complete R&D for new projects. Additionally the trend is for the business to resprray the object for another theater, increasing the profit by maximizing the molds. Collectors would not like to see K&C do the Microsoft push. For the price stated I would expect quality detailing. A loss on quality shoudl decrease the price, I agree. Lets not hope this happens. This is only a start in a trend we all hope stops. Most TS companies are well set in the nich market, and are likely here for the duration. More companies, more choice, happier collector. The competition should help keep the pricing down. Unless they all get together and have a complete price increase. If they can do it, why can't we process.

Oh, There you go Cobber. Starting a Pricing Conspiracy amongst the Toy Soldier Makers. Time for an adult beverage....{sm3}

 

[Phantom Warrior]

The biggest problem in my book is the fact that the slow acquisition process isn't being respected due to the influx in strictly limiteds and the quickness that some of the great items get retired. This forces collectors to buy more now!

But what really grinds my gears is what I perceive as nickel and diming. I have no intrest in the new priest because it's not in my range, but the idea a collector has to buy two sets to complete an AFV is ridiculous. I'm afraid similar pricing strategies will leak into non-open air AFVs and into other lines. Will we be buying all of the tank crews separately?

I'm not so afraid of what has happen, but that what has happened may become a trend.

Buying the crew separately gives the option of buying just the AFV and getting the crew later, or not. That may not be a great choice, but it is more choice than buy the entire set at once or not at all. As for non-open air AFVs, the number of crew has already been cut drastically.

The inescapable fact of higher prices translates into fewer purchases and/or smaller purchases. The Golden Age of being able to collect everything one wanted is dead and it is not coming back. But collectors still have more choice and quality than 5 years ago. It's hard to accept that many models are out of reach due to the high cost of a particular model or because several cheaper items are wanted but one can afford to buy only a few and the rest will be missed. Tough choices but IMO better than the choice of not collecting anything.

Terry

Terry

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Phantom Warrior, You have made some very good points. :wink2:

 

[marco55]

This is what I was kind of hinting at in a previous post. It happens all the time, I loathe Peanut butter and wouldn't buy it unless it was the last food product on earth, but I don't ring up Mr Peanut Butter man and say ' Your product stinks I'm not buying it and time will tell if your company can last so yaa boo':tongue: . As Mr Rutledge just said, I don't buy the bloody horrible stuff and buy Chocolate spread instead:wink2:

Rob

If you were on a peanut butter forum you would.:tongue:^&grin
Mark

 

[marco55]

I don't see how voicing a "complaint" is in any way threatening. Feedback of a one-sided nature is pretty useless to all concerned. I agree that actions are much more important than words. I have bought and enjoyed KC products for about 13 years and the lament was I can no longer afford them. How is that any kind of threat? KC will surely not miss the money or lose sleep over it. Simply my sadness at having to stop buying the product. -- Al

With all the people saying they can no longer afford or won't buy at the higher prices ALL the manufacturers should be concerned.If not they aren't very good businessmen.
Mark

 

[Spanish soldier]

higher prices = less collectors

In the future, only the economically privileged collectors can buy figures

Francisco

 

[bearybones]

higher prices = less collectors

In the future, only the economically privileged collectors can buy figures

Francisco

Well, the economically privileged will be able to buy the highest quality toy soldiers, but there will certainly be the less expensive brands for those who cannot afford the finest quality figures. There are expensive and inexpansive alternatives available for every product produced and there will be buyers for all levels of products.

 

[bearybones]

A Real Reality check. Many here on the forum get on here and submit our comments about products that we would like to see be produced. Dear Andy please make this or dear Andy please make that. When the new items appear then complaints fly rampant about rising costs. We all know the labor costs and everything related to it have sky rocketed during the past year.Based on this, new products require new design, sculpting, new molds, and sometimes more hands involved based on the magnitude of the project. I don't think there is one person here on this forum who would disagree with me about the following fact:
King&Country produces more new releases and products on a monthly basis than any other toy soldier company in existance today! To do this it costs..... MONEY.
The big topic right now is the price of the upcoming Typhoon. I fully trust K&C adjusted their price point on this war bird based on production costs running higher on this polystone aircraft than that of previous releases. The one advantage that collectors have in todays market is there are several great companies in existance producing our beloved miniatures. If you are not happy about a particular product made by brand "Y" then go seek out brand "X" if your heart so desires.

Well stated, Panzer Ace. Personally, I would hate to see King & Country lower the quality of their products, in order to keep their prices lower. There will always be those who are ready, willing and able to afford the finest quality toy soldiers and there will always be lower quality products available for those who are looking for a less expensive alternative. That is the hard, cold reality of the world.

 

[Rob]

Yes I agree, as one who has been calling for K&C to make this I now am happy to step up and buy it. Yes its a lot of money and as I've said I will delay other purchases to do so, but am happy to do this because this weapon of War along with other key releases (such as the Spitfire,Firefly, Hurricane,LCA etc) are the items that really are showstoppers as it were in a collection like mine that celebrates the Allied forces more than the German effort.

I also think the discussion on price has overshadowed just how good this release is, this is without doubt the best Warbird yet. The finish looks excellent as do the rockets and hispano cannon, and this looks no lightweight either, this baby is going to weigh some!^&cool

Can't wait for mine{sm4}

Rob

 

[uksubs]

Well stated, Panzer Ace. Personally, I would hate to see King & Country lower the quality of their products, in order to keep their prices lower. There will always be those who are ready, willing and able to afford the finest quality toy soldiers and there will always be lower quality products available for those who are looking for a less expensive alternative. That is the hard, cold reality of the world.

It all right saying that but for the extra increase in cost there not been a increase in detail, in the Uk now the Figarti He 219 & Hawker Typhoon are at the same price but the Figarti plane is miles better in detail come with all the radar aerials & for the money they charge it should do , the K&C one look good but to me it not worth £350.00 and does not have the same level of detail , if you look at a photo of a real hawker Typhoon the rivets don't stand out but on the K&C one they stand out way to much & was the same on the Me 262 & is a cheap was of adding detail , I'm not having a go at K&C & I'm not stopping anyone else for buying it but this is how I see it ok .:smile2:

 

[tenth of june]

Oh dear, once again there really has been some major "garbage" spoken on this forum!

I collect K&C, with a small splattering of GNM, CS and Britains. If I had my way I would but a lot more than I do but I can't afford it - it's as plain and simple as it sounds!

3-4 years ago I would order a great deal now I pick and chose - it's simple economics. I don't get heated up about it, it's just reality. I look forward to the monthly offerings with as much relish as I used to, but I don't necessarily buy anything.

I would love to purchase the recent Nile figures, Napoleonic Infantry, the recent Robert the Bruce Offering and ofcourse the Typhoon and some new RAF figures. I would also like to buy the FL "Green Jackets", Figarti AC, and some FL mounted personalities. Out of all of those listed, I will have to make decisions on which I purchase, and if my wife finds out it will be a very small list! But this situation hasn't just arrived, its happened since I have been collecting. Those "golden" days of great affordability have gone, and will probably never return; we are now blessed with many excellent companies with too many offerings (lets hope this continues). We should be content with what is presently offered.

I have read people's comments concerning the Typhoon price and they are fairly tedious. Britains is offering a Nile boat for over a $1000! The FL site has people creating a British infantry square - have you any idea how much that would cost! Figarti offered a HMS Victory at what price? And remember, it was the most dissimilar offering I have ever seen.

The Typhoon is affordable if you adapt your spending patterns/options - it's what I will be hoping to do imminently. Moreover, if you honestly believe that K&C will suffer because some will not buy this AC then you are "business-wise" completely nieve!

Fellow collectors, this remains a "TOY SOLDIER" collecting hobby - some of you should remember this. Buy what you wish when you can afford it; enough with the conspiracy theories - they are utterly ridiculous; if you don't want to buy it, don't buy it, it's plain and simple. For myself, its a yes from me - I have always loved this AC, and as I am a serving RAF Officer its awfully hard to resist!

 

[Rob]

Oh dear, once again there really has been some major "garbage" spoken on this forum!

I collect K&C, with a small splattering of GNM, CS and Britains. If I had my way I would but a lot more than I do but I can't afford it - it's as plain and simple as it sounds!

3-4 years ago I would order a great deal now I pick and chose - it's simple economics. I don't get heated up about it, it's just reality. I look forward to the monthly offerings with as much relish as I used to, but I don't necessarily buy anything.

I would love to purchase the recent Nile figures, Napoleonic Infantry, the recent Robert the Bruce Offering and ofcourse the Typhoon and some new RAF figures. I would also like to buy the FL "Green Jackets", Figarti AC, and some FL mounted personalities. Out of all of those listed, I will have to make decisions on which I purchase, and if my wife finds out it will be a very small list! But this situation hasn't just arrived, its happened since I have been collecting. Those "golden" days of great affordability have gone, and will probably never return; we are now blessed with many excellent companies with too many offerings (lets hope this continues). We should be content with what is presently offered.

I have read people's comments concerning the Typhoon price and they are fairly tedious. Britains is offering a Nile boat for over a $1000! The FL site has people creating a British infantry square - have you any idea how much that would cost! Figarti offered a HMS Victory at what price? And remember, it was the most dissimilar offering I have ever seen.

The Typhoon is affordable if you adapt your spending patterns/options - it's what I will be hoping to do imminently. Moreover, if you honestly believe that K&C will suffer because some will not buy this AC then you are "business-wise" completely nieve!

Fellow collectors, this remains a "TOY SOLDIER" collecting hobby - some of you should remember this. Buy what you wish when you can afford it; enough with the conspiracy theories - they are utterly ridiculous; if you don't want to buy it, don't buy it, it's plain and simple. For myself, its a yes from me - I have always loved this AC, and as I am a serving RAF Officer its awfully hard to resist!

Excellent post, spot on. Most especially about adapting buying patterns, that just what I'm doing.

Rob