A Real Reality Check (1 Viewer)

[nmrocks]

How about we trade you El Paso for say.......Cloudcroft? We will throw in the Dallas Cowboys for good measure. {sm4}

Not a Chance! Cloudcrofts one of my favorite escapes, and as far as the Cowboys... Lifes already too slow in NM!

Speaking of that area, check this out. http://www.marchonrome.org/

Something you don't see much of out here.

 

[Rutledge]

Ahh!!!!!
Now I see. You are a retailer. You'd rather see the higher prices than not. More money in your pocket. The sight comes clear. Even the snide comments given towards a discussion. You and I will not see completely eye to eye on this point.
I don't need to run a business to see how it works. The knowledge is there. Not the experience, of which I choose not. Not my forte. You and I know we don't go from cashier to manufacturor. Unless its a local family business. There are steps to go through, like the "chain of command." I agree if goods are sold out then it is moot. Thus the reasoning to manufacture limited quantities. Keep on going for the excessive profits, I don't have to purchase from you. Keep up the snide comments, you are doing an excelent job!!!

Me, a TS retailer? Not even close. Not even in the ballpark. Ask anyone here.

Running a business is not something that can be understood from afar. Its sort of like neurosurgery, just without the scalpel. {sm4} One can observe and believe one has knowledge. But one would be mistaken.

Everyone manufactures limited quantities. There is no such thing as unlimited quantities. Or perhaps you know different?

I take issue with all the complaining and moaning on a public commet site maintained by the purveyor of the products in question. It just seems so very petulant.

Go direct to the Designer, ie K&C. Go direct to the dealer, ie TF. Go direct to the actual factories in China, ie ???. But to post all this whining and complaining on a PUBLIC and FREE site founded and operated for all our benefit, which also happens to be one of the biggest US dealers, it feels like an attempt at online bullying, if you ask me. And it seems rather cowardly.

Just my two cents.

Note: The goal of every business is profit maximaization. It is the founding tenet of capitalism. Of course, this does not mean by all means necessary, ie violation of moral codes, principles of rule of law, etc. The other aspect is that all excessive profits, in a competitive environment, are eventually eroded away by competitors. One must make hay while the sun shines.

PS: So clearly, Im not a TS retailer. Just an old fashioned capitalist. ^&grin

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Looks like a lot of mixed comments have come in on this thread. On an upbeat note to start this bright sunny day.......There is a great variety of companies out there in todays era producing some really great products. It is always fun to get that new box show up at the front door knowing there is a nice surprise lurking inside. So Hats off to all that fuel our passion. {bravo}}

 

[Vezzolf]

Me, a TS retailer? Not even close. Not even in the ballpark. Ask anyone here.

Running a business is not something that can be understood from afar. Its sort of like neurosurgery, just without the scalpel. {sm4} One can observe and believe one has knowledge. But one would be mistaken.

Everyone manufactures limited quantities. There is no such thing as unlimited quantities. Or perhaps you know different?

I take issue with all the complaining and moaning on a public commet site maintained by the purveyor of the products in question. It just seems so very petulant.

Go direct to the Designer, ie K&C. Go direct to the dealer, ie TF. Go direct to the actual factories in China, ie ???. But to post all this whining and complaining on a PUBLIC and FREE site founded and operated for all our benefit, which also happens to be one of the biggest US dealers, it feels like an attempt at online bullying, if you ask me. And it seems rather cowardly.

Just my two cents.

Note: The goal of every business is profit maximaization. It is the founding tenet of capitalism. Of course, this does not mean by all means necessary, ie violation of moral codes, principles of rule of law, etc. The other aspect is that all excessive profits, in a competitive environment, are eventually eroded away by competitors. One must make hay while the sun shines.

PS: So clearly, Im not a TS retailer. Just an old fashioned capitalist. ^&grin

If you really feel that way and you really believe in "profit maximization"....You may want to pay $500 for the Typhoon while the rest of us struggle with $369^&grin^&grin........I do agree with you that excessive profit in a competitive environment are eventually eroded away by competitors...Good analysis...have a blessed day:smile2:

 

[Thompyt]

Me, a TS retailer? Not even close. Not even in the ballpark. Ask anyone here.

Running a business is not something that can be understood from afar. Its sort of like neurosurgery, just without the scalpel. {sm4} One can observe and believe one has knowledge. But one would be mistaken.

Everyone manufactures limited quantities. There is no such thing as unlimited quantities. Or perhaps you know different?

I take issue with all the complaining and moaning on a public commet site maintained by the purveyor of the products in question. It just seems so very petulant.

Go direct to the Designer, ie K&C. Go direct to the dealer, ie TF. Go direct to the actual factories in China, ie ???. But to post all this whining and complaining on a PUBLIC and FREE site founded and operated for all our benefit, which also happens to be one of the biggest US dealers, it feels like an attempt at online bullying, if you ask me. And it seems rather cowardly.

Just my two cents.

Note: The goal of every business is profit maximaization. It is the founding tenet of capitalism. Of course, this does not mean by all means necessary, ie violation of moral codes, principles of rule of law, etc. The other aspect is that all excessive profits, in a competitive environment, are eventually eroded away by competitors. One must make hay while the sun shines.

PS: So clearly, Im not a TS retailer. Just an old fashioned capitalist. ^&grin

Clearly you are not. You are a businessman, your mindset is different from the customer. Why can't someone understand a business environment and be in it? I have buddies in just that environment. I choose not to have to work 18 hours ad day to make ends meet. (here comes another anology; You're not doing it right...)Your anology with the nuerosurgery literally has holes in it.

My question is why the asinine comments on goin gto the manufacturor. If you read, my previous post alluded to the fact of it being not sustainable financially as compared to the obeject in question.

It is public and free. Anyone can whine all they want. If it is not to your satisfaction. You have every right to not read or leave the forum. The administrators are the ones who set the limits.

If there was a beer smiley.... Cheers!!!

 

[Thompyt]

Not a Chance! Cloudcrofts one of my favorite escapes, and as far as the Cowboys... Lifes already too slow in NM!

Speaking of that area, check this out. http://www.marchonrome.org/

Something you don't see much of out here.

Please take the Cowboys!!!

Nice link

 

[Mitch]

I think the main point made was not against profit as we are all aware that these firms are here not to pander to the collectors fads but, simply to make a profit. The point was and is being missed in the capitalist prose is that we are constantly told that we are a nich market yet we see collectors like Al and others who have been in the hobby for a long time spending a lot of cash and are being squeezed out by the prices lately. Thats what is really at the crux of the issue and, not really just the Typhoon it may be the straw that broke many backs but, this has been an issue for a good while.

I think as price is pivotal in the hobby to not discuss it here is stupid as what is this forum for??? Just the Rah Rah??? no, its for ALL things toy soldiers its IMO not right not to discuss these issues and keep it all rather private with the manufacturers etc. What that does is show a rather false view of the hobby

Here and elsewhere are exactly the places one should be able to bring this and any other issues up. Thats not disrespectful or cowardly to me just what its all about
Mitch

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Every business has a right to earn a profit and hopefully earn a respectable profit.
Why should they work just to make ends meet ? If K&C is battling an ongoing struggle with higher labor wages,cost of raw materials,warehouse costs, etc... then me personally I trust them totally to do what "They" need to do to keep the well oiled machine running. On that note yes the old collectors are being caught up in the pinch of taking say X amount of disposable income to make their monthly purchases. $300.00 3 or 4 years ago bought much more than the same $300.00 will buy for them today.I think this is their concern right now. For myself I enjoy making very regular purchases of their products for one simple reason..........I totally enjoy doing so ! :wink2:

 

[Rutledge]

....You may want to pay $500 for the Typhoon while the rest of us struggle with $369^&grin^&grin........I do agree with you that excessive profit in a competitive environment are eventually eroded away by competitors...Good analysis...have a blessed day:smile2:

Why can't someone understand a business environment and be in it? I have buddies in just that environment. It is public and free. Anyone can whine all they want. If it is not to your satisfaction. You have every right to not read or leave the forum.

The point was and is being missed in the capitalist prose is that we are constantly told that we are a nich market yet we see collectors like Al and others who have been in the hobby for a long time spending a lot of cash and are being squeezed out by the prices lately.

I think as price is pivotal in the hobby to not discuss it here is stupid as what is this forum for??? Just the Rah Rah???

Here and elsewhere are exactly the places one should be able to bring this and any other issues up. Thats not disrespectful or cowardly to me just what its all about
Mitch

Please do not confuse excessive profits with profits. All businesses must make a fair profit. Excess profits are those that may accrue in a brand new market, or to an undisputed market leader. Like Apple. The IPAD has around 97% market share. They could charge more, but that opens the door to competiters. They could also charge less. Their overall profits are robust. But, probably through extensive research, they determined the best price points for both capturing customers and keeping most would-be competitors at bay.

Another aspect oft discussed is the distribution model. The cheapest way is direct. At least one TS company does this. Rising prices and more direct producers could
threaten the dealer business model. Would that be OK with collectors here? Lower prices for them at the expense of the vanishing of any and all localized dealers? Including this one. To some it clearly would be.

IMO, pricing complaints show a lack of respect. Do you think that KC, as the TS leading company, is clueless about the implications of rising prices, and needs to be educated? Really? They have run their business from ground zero to top dawg and yet they need input from a bunch of random armchair QBs? That said, any of you having experience founding/running/leading a company with a large international footprint should pipe up.

Andy and team surely pour over their results with a fine tooth comb. Its how the business made it - not by luck. Meanwhile, no one here has access to any real data. Given that, how can one expect to comment with any intelligence on what pricing strategy SHOULD be? I can promise that any consultant brought in to advise on such would only do so after, among other things, an intense rigorous review of all internal financial data.

Its also a tone issue. Its reasonable to relay your buying habits, as some have done. What I find frequently objectionable is those that act is if they are some kind of noble protest group agitating against an oppressor. I mean, please, this aint the UAW folks.

Andy and team have proven they know what they are doing. I trust them to make the best decisions for themselves, their customers, their dealers, their employees, their investors and their vendors. {Not necessarily in that order } All these constituencies are part of the equation. If their decision making disfavors any group too severly he/they will feel it more than anyone. Meanwhile, many collecters here selfishly dont care a whit about the other entities, so long as they can fill their shelves with the lowest possibly priced product.

 

[ecuriel]

Please do not confuse excessive profits with profits. All businesses must make a fair profit. Excess profits are those that may accrue in a brand new market, or to an undisputed market leader. Like Apple. The IPAD has around 97% market share. They could charge more, but that opens the door to competiters. They could also charge less. Their overall profits are robust. But, probably through extensive research, they determined the best price points for both capturing customers and keeping most would-be competitors at bay.

Another aspect oft discussed is the distribution model. The cheapest way is direct. At least one TS company does this. Rising prices and more direct producers could
threaten the dealer business model. Would that be OK with collectors here? Lower prices for them at the expense of the vanishing of any and all localized dealers? Including this one. To some it clearly would be.

IMO, pricing complaints show a lack of respect. Do you think that KC, as the TS leading company, is clueless about the implications of rising prices, and needs to be educated? Really? They have run their business from ground zero to top dawg and yet they need input from a bunch of random armchair QBs? That said, any of you having experience founding/running/leading a company with a large international footprint should pipe up.

Andy and team surely pour over their results with a fine tooth comb. Its how the business made it - not by luck. Meanwhile, no one here has access to any real data. Given that, how can one expect to comment with any intelligence on what pricing strategy SHOULD be? I can promise that any consultant brought in to advise on such would only do so after, among other things, an intense rigorous review of all internal financial data.

Its also a tone issue. Its reasonable to relay your buying habits, as some have done. What I find frequently objectionable is those that act is if they are some kind of noble protest group agitating against an oppressor. I mean, please, this aint the UAW folks.

Andy and team have proven they know what they are doing. I trust them to make the best decisions for themselves, their customers, their dealers, their employees, their investors and their vendors. {Not necessarily in that order } All these constituencies are part of the equation. If their decision making disfavors any group too severly he/they will feel it more than anyone. Meanwhile, many collecters here selfishly dont care a whit about the other entities, so long as they can fill their shelves with the lowest possibly priced product.

I'm in your camp!

 

[Thompyt]

IMO, pricing complaints show a lack of respect.

Meanwhile, many collecters here selfishly dont care a whit about the other entities, so long as they can fill their shelves with the lowest possibly priced product.

Thank you for your opinion, it is well appreciated and in this manner of your last post, very well stated.

I do not see how pricing demonstrates a lack of respect. Its the same as when you complain of gas prices when you fill up the car.

About the collectors statement. Is this not the manner of capitolism? The buyer to want more for less.

Very well stated post Rutledge.

 

[Combat]

At the risk of extending this discussion even further, just an example of how forum feedback was used by a manufacturer recently to correct a problem. John Jenkins released photos of a new plane which had incorrect markings. It was in production and due for release. Al pointed out the mistake on the forum. John delayed the release and fixed the problem (likely at some considerable cost to himself). He could have buried his head in the sand or berated his customers as rivet counting whiners who should "buy it if they like it" and stop complaining. But he simply fixed the problem. In the short term it may cost him some profit and aggravation. In the longer term, he has garnered respect rather than animosity from his customers. In my opinion, that's the better business model and an example of how this forum can work constructively. But to each his own.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I am sure that the right set of eyes have viewed the comments made here in the last day or so. Maybe something positive will result from it all. :wink2:

 

[uksubs]

At the risk of extending this discussion even further, just an example of how forum feedback was used by a manufacturer recently to correct a problem. John Jenkins released photos of a new plane which had incorrect markings. It was in production and due for release. Al pointed out the mistake on the forum. John delayed the release and fixed the problem (likely at some considerable cost to himself). He could have buried his head in the sand or berated his customers as rivet counting whiners who should "buy it if they like it" and stop complaining. But he simply fixed the problem. In the short term it may cost him some profit and aggravation. In the longer term, he has garnered respect rather than animosity from his customers. In my opinion, that's the better business model and an example of how this forum can work constructively. But to each his own.

Good post

 

[Thompyt]

At the risk of extending this discussion even further, just an example of how forum feedback was used by a manufacturer recently to correct a problem. John Jenkins released photos of a new plane which had incorrect markings. It was in production and due for release. Al pointed out the mistake on the forum. John delayed the release and fixed the problem (likely at some considerable cost to himself). He could have buried his head in the sand or berated his customers as rivet counting whiners who should "buy it if they like it" and stop complaining. But he simply fixed the problem. In the short term it may cost him some profit and aggravation. In the longer term, he has garnered respect rather than animosity from his customers. In my opinion, that's the better business model and an example of how this forum can work constructively. But to each his own.

That is what I would call excellent customer service.

 

[Rutledge]

At the risk of extending this discussion even further, just an example of how forum feedback was used by a manufacturer recently to correct a problem....In my opinion, that's the better business model and an example of how this forum can work constructively. But to each his own.

Helpful feedback is always welcomed, I suspect. Its the 'other kind', based on pure self interest, which is not so endearing.

 

[maddadicus]

K/C did not introduce the pricepoints that we are feeling now. I continue to be amazed that most of the same folks that come to the KC forum to whine about their pricing structure are the same collectors who have no problem with plastic like tanks for $300 and figures for $60 from another mfg. In fact, the same collectors who enjoy raining on the K/C parade go out of their way to rah rah the high priced mfg. every chance they get on his forum. I can only hope the mods do notice the constant sniping here ,from other mfg. hypocritical collectors. Hey Frank, does your favorite mfg. over maximize his profits by offering a plastic built model for $300 bucks?{sm2} Inquiring minds like to know..^&confuseMichael

 

[Toy Soldier Brigade]

K/C did not introduce the pricepoints that we are feeling now. I continue to be amazed that most of the same folks that come to the KC forum to whine about their pricing structure are the same collectors who have no problem with plastic like tanks for $300 and figures for $60 from another mfg. In fact, the same collectors who enjoy raining on the K/C parade go out of their way to rah rah the high priced mfg. every chance they get on his forum. I can only hope the mods do notice the constant sniping here ,from other mfg. hypocritical collectors. Hey Frank, does your favorite mfg. over maximize his profits by offering a plastic built model for $300 bucks? Inquiring minds like to know..Michael

This statement makes absolutely no sense. Talk about comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Northgate Woods]

K/C did not introduce the pricepoints that we are feeling now. I continue to be amazed that most of the same folks that come to the KC forum to whine about their pricing structure are the same collectors who have no problem with plastic like tanks for $300 and figures for $60 from another mfg. In fact, the same collectors who enjoy raining on the K/C parade go out of their way to rah rah the high priced mfg. every chance they get on his forum. I can only hope the mods do notice the constant sniping here ,from other mfg. hypocritical collectors. Hey Frank, does your favorite mfg. over maximize his profits by offering a plastic built model for $300 bucks?{sm2} Inquiring minds like to know..^&confuseMichael

Michael mate,
I think you have hit the nail right squarely on top of the head. Excellent post. This constant sniping cannot be construed as constructive critisism but just as a personal attack on K&C and its owner. He is a big boy and gives as good as he gets. Get over it guys. Price increases are a fact of life. Most members of this Forum are intelligent enough to see thru rah rah and judge what is constuctive and what is just plain BS.
If you really want a product and your passion is so intense for it then go out and get a second job, like I have done to pay for my addiction to TS.
Cheers Howard

 

[Thompyt]

Helpful feedback is always welcomed, I suspect. Its the 'other kind', based on pure self interest, which is not so endearing.

Dude,
Was the post style prior to this uncommon? Can you not write a post without snide comments? The coin can be flipped on you as a business owner. Your intentions are based as well on self interest. That is what you so strenuously claim to be as a capitalist.