AK39 The Tunisian Tiger (2 Viewers)

[Currahee Chris]

Hello to all!!

So there I was one day, perusing the KC dispatches and there is the new TIGER SL for the AK line!!! My eyes bug out, hands start to sweat and mouth emits a Tim Allen (Home Improvement) "Whoa whoa whoa" man laugh. My mind races as millions of questions enter my mind- ok, how many hours of overtime am I going to have to work to cover this?, how do I cover the money trail in case my wife decides to get curious and review our checkbook, and where can I tuck this tank away so that it is inconspicuous to her?

This tiger landed in my lap like a powerfull 88 round landing in my basement bunker here at my house. After cleaning up the drool from the keyboard of my laptop, I retired for the evening.

After a few weeks pass, I begin to notice something that bothers me- a lot of my collecting friends are talking about "I am going to buy two- one for display and one as "an investment" " An INVESTMENT?? What on Earth are you talking about?? I start talking to various dealers and they start asking me the same questions- in fact SIX DEALERS I spoke with are planning on ordering more than they have demand for, holding out and then selling them later on at inflated prices.

I was bummed.

Now, I am not going to pass judgement on those of you who are considering this option- I would simply like to pass on some observations I have made in the 9 years I have collected KC.

1.) Like the promotional material says, "This is our 7th tiger in 10 years". Chances are, we will see another one.

2.) Historicon 2004- a major wargaming show we have here in Pa- I had come upon some hard times. As any good father does, he sacrifices what he loves most ( tried to sell wife and kids, no buyers ). So, next to go were my toy soldiers. At the flea market then, my DDAY Landing craft sat on my table for 3 hours before someone took it for $75. My Rommel staff car sat for nearly 6 at $60. My SF03 Hummer NEVER sold at $50 and my SP09 and SP010 NEVER SOLD at $20 and $30 respectfully.

A few months later, KC pieces seemed to get pretty hot on Ebay and the rest is history.

3.) "Past performance doesn't guarantee future results"!!!! There are other variables at play with the SL Winter Tiger- don't let the Winter Tiger and it's current prices drive your decision to purchase this Tiger- these are two different "Animals" if you will.

4.) The "toy soldier investment" strategy will not work on me- right now, I probably will pass on this set- it just doesn't fit my collecting goals- however, don't think I am going to pay an inflated price so someone can satisfy their "investment" goal. I buy at retail and retail only- if a piece is retired and I cannot get it- KC just has too many other quality offerings for me to gobble up- paying an exorbitant markup isn't in my defense budget.

5.) Look at the hobby- there are a lot of "baby boomers" out there who are retiring and unloading those retirement pensions like a sailor in Singapore. A good majority of the people buying these old retired pieces at these markups are these individuals (or wealthy collectors). It won't be like that forever- in fact, at 35, I am still a "young collector". This phenomenon is nothing new and it is very evident in other sectors on the US economy- hotel and leisure, restaurants, etc. Plus, other "cottage" companies are springing up and selling their quality WW2 vehicles that are good too- Figarti, NMA and HB come immediately to mind- how many "AK" versions of the Tiger do I need? There also seem to be more sellers and the internet has certainly made it easier to contact other vendors in other countries. If you think that just because you may be the only one in your state or country who is offering an SL product for sale and you can go about marking it up, I will have no qualms about going online and getting one from someone else at retail.

6.) Finally- Remember Mr. Neilson's tagline "Happy Collecting" - it ain't "Happy Investing"- investing, to me sounds too much like work, which isn't something I want to do when collecting. If you want to get into investing or speculating give T Rowe Price , Bear Sterns or someone a call.

I would like to call attention to Treefrog and George at MinuteMan- George told me he is restricting all his customers to one Tiger- this is a novel approach! Anyway, these companies (and please accept all apologies if I excluded you) are doing a superb job at selling to their customers with quality customer service and a great love for the hobby- not by holding out and speculating on the secondary, EvilBay market.

 

[Harrytheheid]

Hello to all!!

So there I was one day, perusing the KC dispatches and there is the new TIGER SL for the AK line!!! My eyes bug out, hands start to sweat and mouth emits a Tim Allen (Home Improvement) "Whoa whoa whoa" man laugh. My mind races as millions of questions enter my mind- ok, how many hours of overtime am I going to have to work to cover this?, how do I cover the money trail in case my wife decides to get curious and review our checkbook, and where can I tuck this tank away so that it is inconspicuous to her?

This tiger landed in my lap like a powerfull 88 round landing in my basement bunker here at my house. After cleaning up the drool from the keyboard of my laptop, I retired for the evening.

After a few weeks pass, I begin to notice something that bothers me- a lot of my collecting friends are talking about "I am going to buy two- one for display and one as "an investment" " An INVESTMENT?? What on Earth are you talking about?? I start talking to various dealers and they start asking me the same questions- in fact SIX DEALERS I spoke with are planning on ordering more than they have demand for, holding out and then selling them later on at inflated prices.

I was bummed.

Now, I am not going to pass judgement on those of you who are considering this option- I would simply like to pass on some observations I have made in the 9 years I have collected KC.

1.) Like the promotional material says, "This is our 7th tiger in 10 years". Chances are, we will see another one.

2.) Historicon 2004- a major wargaming show we have here in Pa- I had come upon some hard times. As any good father does, he sacrifices what he loves most ( tried to sell wife and kids, no buyers ). So, next to go were my toy soldiers. At the flea market then, my DDAY Landing craft sat on my table for 3 hours before someone took it for $75. My Rommel staff car sat for nearly 6 at $60. My SF03 Hummer NEVER sold at $50 and my SP09 and SP010 NEVER SOLD at $20 and $30 respectfully.

A few months later, KC pieces seemed to get pretty hot on Ebay and the rest is history.

3.) "Past performance doesn't guarantee future results"!!!! There are other variables at play with the SL Winter Tiger- don't let the Winter Tiger and it's current prices drive your decision to purchase this Tiger- these are two different "Animals" if you will.

4.) The "toy soldier investment" strategy will not work on me- right now, I probably will pass on this set- it just doesn't fit my collecting goals- however, don't think I am going to pay an inflated price so someone can satisfy their "investment" goal. I buy at retail and retail only- if a piece is retired and I cannot get it- KC just has too many other quality offerings for me to gobble up- paying an exorbitant markup isn't in my defense budget.

5.) Look at the hobby- there are a lot of "baby boomers" out there who are retiring and unloading those retirement pensions like a sailor in Singapore. A good majority of the people buying these old retired pieces at these markups are these individuals (or wealthy collectors). It won't be like that forever- in fact, at 35, I am still a "young collector". This phenomenon is nothing new and it is very evident in other sectors on the US economy- hotel and leisure, restaurants, etc. Plus, other "cottage" companies are springing up and selling their quality WW2 vehicles that are good too- Figarti, NMA and HB come immediately to mind- how many "AK" versions of the Tiger do I need? There also seem to be more sellers and the internet has certainly made it easier to contact other vendors in other countries. If you think that just because you may be the only one in your state or country who is offering an SL product for sale and you can go about marking it up, I will have no qualms about going online and getting one from someone else at retail.

6.) Finally- Remember Mr. Neilson's tagline "Happy Collecting" - it ain't "Happy Investing"- investing, to me sounds too much like work, which isn't something I want to do when collecting. If you want to get into investing or speculating give T Rowe Price , Bear Sterns or someone a call.

I would like to call attention to Treefrog and George at MinuteMan- George told me he is restricting all his customers to one Tiger- this is a novel approach! Anyway, these companies (and please accept all apologies if I excluded you) are doing a superb job at selling to their customers with quality customer service and a great love for the hobby- not by holding out and speculating on the secondary, EvilBay market.

Chris,
Good to see you here again.
Have to agree with all the points you make in this post. I won't be getting the TT simply because it doesn't fit in with our collection, but GL to those who simply must have it.
Best Regards and All That
H

 

[PolarBear]

I decided to pass on the Tunisian Tiger too. I spent several weeks thinking about this and weighing the pros & cons. My reasons:

1. For the price I can get 2 sets of figures

2. The figures that come with it are nothing special. The ones with the Winter Tiger made a more interesting diorama. I probably would have gone with the TT if it came with a set of tank riders or DAK fiiigures like the Waffen SS tank crew. I personally would like to see more variety in the DAK uniforms from K&C as was the case in the field. Too many have the green jacket, sand trousers/shorts and sand cap. (sse pix below)

3. Although I love North Africa and K&C's products I cannot be a completist since there are too many nice things out there to choose from and as John Cleese says in "How to Irritate People": "Money doesn't grow on trees"

4. The bottom line for me on any purchase is how it looks because the visual pleasure I get from collecting is most important to me. Thus my collection is pretty eclectic, although it does have emphases.

Randy

 

[Vezzolf]

Hello to all!!

So there I was one day, perusing the KC dispatches and there is the new TIGER SL for the AK line!!! My eyes bug out, hands start to sweat and mouth emits a Tim Allen (Home Improvement) "Whoa whoa whoa" man laugh. My mind races as millions of questions enter my mind- ok, how many hours of overtime am I going to have to work to cover this?, how do I cover the money trail in case my wife decides to get curious and review our checkbook, and where can I tuck this tank away so that it is inconspicuous to her?

This tiger landed in my lap like a powerfull 88 round landing in my basement bunker here at my house. After cleaning up the drool from the keyboard of my laptop, I retired for the evening.

After a few weeks pass, I begin to notice something that bothers me- a lot of my collecting friends are talking about "I am going to buy two- one for display and one as "an investment" " An INVESTMENT?? What on Earth are you talking about?? I start talking to various dealers and they start asking me the same questions- in fact SIX DEALERS I spoke with are planning on ordering more than they have demand for, holding out and then selling them later on at inflated prices.

I was bummed.

Now, I am not going to pass judgement on those of you who are considering this option- I would simply like to pass on some observations I have made in the 9 years I have collected KC.

1.) Like the promotional material says, "This is our 7th tiger in 10 years". Chances are, we will see another one.

2.) Historicon 2004- a major wargaming show we have here in Pa- I had come upon some hard times. As any good father does, he sacrifices what he loves most ( tried to sell wife and kids, no buyers ). So, next to go were my toy soldiers. At the flea market then, my DDAY Landing craft sat on my table for 3 hours before someone took it for $75. My Rommel staff car sat for nearly 6 at $60. My SF03 Hummer NEVER sold at $50 and my SP09 and SP010 NEVER SOLD at $20 and $30 respectfully.

A few months later, KC pieces seemed to get pretty hot on Ebay and the rest is history.

3.) "Past performance doesn't guarantee future results"!!!! There are other variables at play with the SL Winter Tiger- don't let the Winter Tiger and it's current prices drive your decision to purchase this Tiger- these are two different "Animals" if you will.

4.) The "toy soldier investment" strategy will not work on me- right now, I probably will pass on this set- it just doesn't fit my collecting goals- however, don't think I am going to pay an inflated price so someone can satisfy their "investment" goal. I buy at retail and retail only- if a piece is retired and I cannot get it- KC just has too many other quality offerings for me to gobble up- paying an exorbitant markup isn't in my defense budget.

5.) Look at the hobby- there are a lot of "baby boomers" out there who are retiring and unloading those retirement pensions like a sailor in Singapore. A good majority of the people buying these old retired pieces at these markups are these individuals (or wealthy collectors). It won't be like that forever- in fact, at 35, I am still a "young collector". This phenomenon is nothing new and it is very evident in other sectors on the US economy- hotel and leisure, restaurants, etc. Plus, other "cottage" companies are springing up and selling their quality WW2 vehicles that are good too- Figarti, NMA and HB come immediately to mind- how many "AK" versions of the Tiger do I need? There also seem to be more sellers and the internet has certainly made it easier to contact other vendors in other countries. If you think that just because you may be the only one in your state or country who is offering an SL product for sale and you can go about marking it up, I will have no qualms about going online and getting one from someone else at retail.

6.) Finally- Remember Mr. Neilson's tagline "Happy Collecting" - it ain't "Happy Investing"- investing, to me sounds too much like work, which isn't something I want to do when collecting. If you want to get into investing or speculating give T Rowe Price , Bear Sterns or someone a call.

I would like to call attention to Treefrog and George at MinuteMan- George told me he is restricting all his customers to one Tiger- this is a novel approach! Anyway, these companies (and please accept all apologies if I excluded you) are doing a superb job at selling to their customers with quality customer service and a great love for the hobby- not by holding out and speculating on the secondary, EvilBay market.

I could not agree with you more.....on all points....let common sense rule....

 

[rws591]

personally i am getting two, but not so i have one for resale but because im planing on making a mini dio with my greif

 

[Combat]

personally i am getting two, but not so i have one for resale but because im planing on making a mini dio with my greif

Why not buy one KC version and one HB version to have different turret numbers etc?

 

[Jim5615]

Hello to all!!

So there I was one day, perusing the KC dispatches and there is the new TIGER SL for the AK line!!! My eyes bug out, hands start to sweat and mouth emits a Tim Allen (Home Improvement) "Whoa whoa whoa" man laugh. My mind races as millions of questions enter my mind- ok, how many hours of overtime am I going to have to work to cover this?, how do I cover the money trail in case my wife decides to get curious and review our checkbook, and where can I tuck this tank away so that it is inconspicuous to her?

This tiger landed in my lap like a powerfull 88 round landing in my basement bunker here at my house. After cleaning up the drool from the keyboard of my laptop, I retired for the evening.

After a few weeks pass, I begin to notice something that bothers me- a lot of my collecting friends are talking about "I am going to buy two- one for display and one as "an investment" " An INVESTMENT?? What on Earth are you talking about?? I start talking to various dealers and they start asking me the same questions- in fact SIX DEALERS I spoke with are planning on ordering more than they have demand for, holding out and then selling them later on at inflated prices.

I was bummed.

Now, I am not going to pass judgement on those of you who are considering this option- I would simply like to pass on some observations I have made in the 9 years I have collected KC.

1.) Like the promotional material says, "This is our 7th tiger in 10 years". Chances are, we will see another one.

2.) Historicon 2004- a major wargaming show we have here in Pa- I had come upon some hard times. As any good father does, he sacrifices what he loves most ( tried to sell wife and kids, no buyers ). So, next to go were my toy soldiers. At the flea market then, my DDAY Landing craft sat on my table for 3 hours before someone took it for $75. My Rommel staff car sat for nearly 6 at $60. My SF03 Hummer NEVER sold at $50 and my SP09 and SP010 NEVER SOLD at $20 and $30 respectfully.

A few months later, KC pieces seemed to get pretty hot on Ebay and the rest is history.

3.) "Past performance doesn't guarantee future results"!!!! There are other variables at play with the SL Winter Tiger- don't let the Winter Tiger and it's current prices drive your decision to purchase this Tiger- these are two different "Animals" if you will.

4.) The "toy soldier investment" strategy will not work on me- right now, I probably will pass on this set- it just doesn't fit my collecting goals- however, don't think I am going to pay an inflated price so someone can satisfy their "investment" goal. I buy at retail and retail only- if a piece is retired and I cannot get it- KC just has too many other quality offerings for me to gobble up- paying an exorbitant markup isn't in my defense budget.

5.) Look at the hobby- there are a lot of "baby boomers" out there who are retiring and unloading those retirement pensions like a sailor in Singapore. A good majority of the people buying these old retired pieces at these markups are these individuals (or wealthy collectors). It won't be like that forever- in fact, at 35, I am still a "young collector". This phenomenon is nothing new and it is very evident in other sectors on the US economy- hotel and leisure, restaurants, etc. Plus, other "cottage" companies are springing up and selling their quality WW2 vehicles that are good too- Figarti, NMA and HB come immediately to mind- how many "AK" versions of the Tiger do I need? There also seem to be more sellers and the internet has certainly made it easier to contact other vendors in other countries. If you think that just because you may be the only one in your state or country who is offering an SL product for sale and you can go about marking it up, I will have no qualms about going online and getting one from someone else at retail.

6.) Finally- Remember Mr. Neilson's tagline "Happy Collecting" - it ain't "Happy Investing"- investing, to me sounds too much like work, which isn't something I want to do when collecting. If you want to get into investing or speculating give T Rowe Price , Bear Sterns or someone a call.

I would like to call attention to Treefrog and George at MinuteMan- George told me he is restricting all his customers to one Tiger- this is a novel approach! Anyway, these companies (and please accept all apologies if I excluded you) are doing a superb job at selling to their customers with quality customer service and a great love for the hobby- not by holding out and speculating on the secondary, EvilBay market.

I love the look of this Tiger and am buying 1, but I agree 100% with all your points. I have seen dealers do this in the past and while it is thier privaledge it still strikes me as a bit sleazy.

 

[steel wheels]

Very interesting point and discussion. I likewise. do not play into that K&C retirement ebay stuff. I always wanted the M-18 Hellcat, but I waited too long. I cetainly will not pay $300.00 for it. I have always been a winter guy, and K&C curbed my appetite with the M-10 tank destroyer, that was released a short time after the Hellcat was retired. I don't even own a K&C Tiger, because my FOV Tiger looks fine with my K&C Rommel and infantry.

 

[Louis Badolato]

I think this Tiger is a big step forward for K&C armored vehicle production, and it looks to have the correct scale and level of detail people presently expect from Honour Bound. I think the competition between K&C, Honour Bound, and Figarti is driving the quality of all three steadily forward, even faster than all three would have improved on their own.

 

[jazzeum]

As one who was on this Forum when the Greif first came out, it's like deja vu all over again. This is a debate that is just getting warmed up. Chris' post raises all the issues and after the Tiger comes out and you see the prices requested on ebay, it will be hotly debated.

I think there are some people who see this as an investment but I think there are some collectors who will buy one to put away for a rainy day, resell when it gets up there and use the cash to buy other K & C. I see nothing wrong in the latter case. I've done that and plowed it back although I haven't done it in this instance.

I have talked to a few dealers and these are hot! I knew it would be and I pre-ordered mine almost the second the news came out. If you want one I would not wait. There will be some who will, and will rue that decision.

 

[sceic2]

Chris, I could not agree with you more about the issue that to some of us it is a hobby not an investment. But to others it is and more power to them.

When I collect, I collect for the pleasure. Sure I've bought and sold a few items on EBay but that's because I sometimes make silly purchase decisions and get obsessed with certain releases, like making a convoy of 12 K&C GMC trucks or a platoon of (14) FOV Stugs to make a complete mid-war battery. Obsessive compulsive, that’s for beginners and I am definitely not a beginner. I am fortunate that I can afford to do that kind of buying. Once I got back to reality, I sold all but two of the trucks and all but one of the Stugs, not at inflated prices either. I will offer items on this forum to members, at less than cost, and when no one here wants them, then they go to EBay.

I will be getting the K&C SL DAK Tiger because for me it is irresistible in its beauty and coloration. I am not a competist obsessed with getting each and every release; I collect what I like. I passed on the “The Assassination of Heydrich” and others like WS100 and WS101 to mention a few. I even sold WS 1 to 12 because I simply do not find that I wanted to have them in my collection, as the quality is not up to today’s work. I did the same with the early DD series.

But, the DAK Tiger is a must for me. I ordered one.

And Brad, you are correct, we will see much discussion about this release and resale.

 

[johngambale]

Love the Tunisian Tiger; hopefully, when Andy comes back from R&R, we need to tell him to make DAK Rider's for this Tiger Tank! Also, a WALKING/FIGHTING PATROL DAK, and POW'S! DAK Infantry will be out next Year 2008!; Along with the Italians, Australians, British and French!

 

[desk11desk12]

I've ordered two of them and for me, I doubt if I'll ever regret it. One for my DAK dioramas and a second one for a repaint job (panzer gray) in the future if I feel the urge too.

Carlos

 

[tdubel]

Agree with the points about it being a hobby, but would like to offer a few other thoughts.

1. As Brad said, buying one for a rainy day for a reinvestment seems ok to me. I personally have a a few items sitting that I am holding out for a trade in the future possibly or if not, I will use them as a reinvestment.

2. $300 for some of the retired armor is probably about right, I use that as a guage on ebay as I accumulate some retired pieces. Now, I can tell you that $300 will not touch the landing craft nor the ambulance and a few others, but the Hellcat, yes it should and really the hellcat is probably more like $200.

3. It is a free market, each day is different, it is your choice whether to buy it.

4. My collecting goes like this, I ohh and ahh over the current pieces but rarely buy them right away. I like to accumulate the older first and then if something is retired that I wanted, I buy it before stock runs out, this works for me.


Just my half pennies worth.

Tom

 

[MCKENNA77]

I can understand and respect the views put forth here on why someone wouldnt buy it(too expensive, will be other tanks.....etc). But you have to admit that it looks sweet and is a complete work of art.

Take Care
MCKENNA

 

[jazzeum]

Believe this or not, but a mint Hellcat went this week for $106. Incredible. I was watching but forgot about it. What a sweet deal that would have been.

 

[Pierre]

Believe this or not, but a mint Hellcat went this week for $106. Incredible. I was watching but forgot about it. What a sweet deal that would have been.

Brad-

I am watching eBay less than you so, am I dreaming or the prices are going down, except on some items like Sgt Pepper's and other rareties?

Pierre.

 

[jazzeum]

Pierre,

I think that was an oddity because around the same time another Hellcat went in the high 200s. Hard to figure out.

 

[Harrytheheid]

Love the Tunisian Tiger; hopefully, when Andy comes back from R&R, we need to tell him to make DAK Rider's for this Tiger Tank! Also, a WALKING/FIGHTING PATROL DAK, and POW'S! DAK Infantry will be out next Year 2008!; Along with the Italians, Australians, British and French!

Yawn...........Dream on my man.

 

[OzDigger]

I think this Tiger is a big step forward for K&C armored vehicle production, and it looks to have the correct scale and level of detail people presently expect from Honour Bound. I think the competition between K&C, Honour Bound, and Figarti is driving the quality of all three steadily forward, even faster than all three would have improved on their own.

Louis, I agree with you entirely and have placed an order for this set. The pics of it indicate it is as good as any tank Honour Bound has produced and K & C figures are better, as usual. I just hope the figures are 1/30 and not 1/32

Chris, I also agree with your post on the subject and I have not bought sets purely for an investment opportunity. However the Afrika Korps is one of my main collecting themes so this is an ideal set for me. That said if Honour Bound bring out a Wittman Tiger I think I may be threatened with some sort of contract by my wife. I went to a swap meet in Brisbane today, kissed the wife goodbye and said "I'll sell more than I buy this time dear." And guess what, she said the same thing your wife said to you......"bull****"

Btw, I have mentioned once or twice (but I think I got away with it) that some K & C tanks are smaller than what they should be, so I sorta felt obliged to kick the tin for this set.