Best Money Sense on Retired (1 Viewer)

[OzDigger]

Goodness, no!

You stand a better chance in the financial markets - not with collectibles.

As it is, hobbies are meant to give you joy - not financial worries.

I buy what I like and can afford. Buying high to sell higher is not a game for me with such items. Just my 2 cents.

Great post, I had a stab at set speculating by buying doubles etc but soon found that was a less than safe 'investment'

 

[g18]

One should read the "What Do You Do For a Living" thread....lets be honest at $32 bucks a pop for a figure my experience has been that the collectors that buy alot and often has serious coin in thier pocket. Trust me.....walk around OTSN....Doctors, Lawyers....successful businessmen abound! Bottom line the people the hobby count on to continue to buy have the means to do so and may have been hurt by the current economic situation but have not been crushed by it and contimue to buy. Ive spoken to several dealer friends and all say they are doing well with sales.......I'm not at all worried about this hobbies future.

No doubt there are a significant number of people who are financially comfortable in today's environment to sustain this hobby. Thanks (or not) in part to the world's govts handling of the situation, the wealth divide is widening ever more.

It is more a matter of whether this is increasingly one that can only be enjoyed by a select few or by a wider and growing market of people with passion for it but with lesser means.

My personal take would be something good is best enjoy with as many people as possible. Spread the joy!

 

[jazzeum]

Great post, I had a stab at set speculating by buying doubles etc but soon found that was a less than safe 'investment'

Didn't you beat me up several years ago for doing the same thing?

 

[OzDigger]

OzDigger....

I wonder outside the forum just how much decline there really is there seems to still be a lot of people with a lot of money wanting to collect as much as possible.

Its difficult to determine but, I don't worry for the future of the hobby
Mitch

I can only speak for my part of the world, which is actually better off than most countries. I have been collecting military models for over 30 years and I have Never seen the hobby so depressed. Of the dozens of collectors I know, there is only One guy that hasn't cut back on collecting. Every hobby shop that I know has reduced staff numbers and are actively seeking new customers to replace the regulars that have cut back their spending.

There will always be people with plenty of money which is lucky for King & Country considering their ever increasing prices. I just hope those big spenders are making up for the many less affluent customers that have cut back on what they buy.

 

[OzDigger]

Didn't you beat me up several years ago for doing the same thing?

LOL - I have since beat myself up for not being a 'true' collector, but the economy has given us all a bigger beating

 

[g18]

I can only speak for my part of the world, which is actually better off than most countries. I have been collecting military models for over 30 years and I have Never seen the hobby so depressed. Of the dozens of collectors I know, there is only One guy that hasn't cut back on collecting. Every hobby shop that I know has reduced staff numbers and are actively seeking new customers to replace the regulars that have cut back their spending.

There will always be people with plenty of money which is lucky for King & Country considering their ever increasing prices. I just hope those big spenders are making up for the many less affluent customers that have cut back on what they buy.

If the Aussies are struggling, this is quite something because Australia did not suffer a single recession for 19 years (even during the 2008 crisis). This is the "Lucky country" supplying the commodities that China and the rest of the world wants.

I do not quite relish the idea of big spenders making up for the many less affluent customers that have cut back or will never even contemplate this hobby. It will be a sad day if deep pockets trump passion. I hope that's not the trend - I will seriously reconsider my involvement in this hobby if TS manufacturers see that as their business strategy.

 

[Njja]

Didn't you beat me up several years ago for doing the same thing?

...............................................................................................

This is exactly why I limit my posts.

You simply express your opinions.....then find yourself "labeled"

by people that have no idea who you are or what you really do.

It becomes a real waste of time.........then you read that they have gone

against what they preached!

 

[OzDigger]

If the Aussies are struggling, this is quite something because Australia did not suffer a single recession for 19 years (even during the 2008 crisis). This is the "Lucky country" supplying the commodities that China and the rest of the world wants.

I do not quite relish the idea of big spenders making up for the many less affluent customers that have cut back or will never even contemplate this hobby. It will be a sad day if deep pockets trump passion. I hope that's not the trend - I will seriously reconsider my involvement in this hobby if TS manufacturers see that as their business strategy.

Australia certainly does have plenty of raw materials but the demand for them reduces as consumers buy fewer products. The main reason that Australia didn't suffer as much as other economies is that we have stricter policy controls, e.g share trading, home sales and lending. For many years I used to interview and process home loans. I met hundreds of people that deserved to own their own home. However I soon learned that you are not doing anyone any favors by lending them money for a house they can't afford to repay.

 

[OzDigger]

...............................................................................................

This is exactly why I limit my posts.

You simply express your opinions.....then find yourself "labeled"

by people that have no idea who you are or what you really do.

It becomes a real waste of time.........then you read that they have gone

against what they preached!

When you posted so many examples of you buying old toys from people for peanuts then selling them for big dollars I guess I got the impression you were only in this hobby for the money. Sorry if I 'labeled' you incorrectly

 

[g18]

Australia certainly does have plenty of raw materials but the demand for them reduces as consumers buy fewer products. The main reason that Australia didn't suffer as much as other economies is that we have stricter policy controls, e.g share trading, home sales and lending. For many years I used to interview and process home loans. I met hundreds of people that deserved to own their own home. However I soon learned that you are not doing anyone any favors by lending them money for a house they can't afford to repay.

Indeed, someone need to be there to take away the punchbowl when the party gets out of hand. Ever-increasing prices in anything isn't exactly the best thing if the fundamentals do not support it. Deflation is not dead and it is better to have it from time to time to cool things a bit than to go one direction of inflation - the adjustment that is forced upon eventually will not be pleasant.

Sorry if we are off-course a bit - but the TS industry is no different from any others. I would think a diversity of consumers from more income levels will be more sustainable and robust for its long-term development.

 

[Mitch]

I always find this 'wealth divide' thing to be quite interesting. I cannot see why some worry about these 'wealthy'collectors taking over. comparatively with the economy as a whole this hobby has always been rather expensive its how you view expensive. We seem or, some seem to be stating that its good for K&C that there are wealthy collectors but, lets look at where they are priced in the market and you will see they are quite well priced compared with some and, more expensive for some sets but less for others. You pays your money and takes your chances IMO.

Its also guff about the divide in society as there will always be jobs that require more from the individuals than others. Now I know it takes more to be a barrister or a surgeon than it does to pour drinks in a bar or, sweep the streets but, both are important but, certainly should not get the same remittance. Its a way of life and its always been the same way and will always continue.

Andy has always stated that this was a market aimed at adults and, the most importanmt thing is to appreciate what you have whether its one piece or one hundered
Mitch

 

[OzDigger]

Indeed, someone need to be there to take away the punchbowl when the party gets out of hand. Ever-increasing prices in anything isn't exactly the best thing if the fundamentals do not support it. Deflation is not dead and it is better to have it from time to time to cool things a bit than to go one direction of inflation - the adjustment that is forced upon eventually will not be pleasant.

Sorry if we are off-course a bit - but the TS industry is no different from any others. I would think a diversity of consumers from more income levels will be more sustainable and robust for its long-term development.

True, for example the price for a tank set has increased from US $89 to over US $200 in only a few years yet there appears to be no reduction in the number of new sets issued each month. Imo that is a recipe for disaster unless the production run has been reduced to compensate for lower demand. Further more, I would have thought increased competition from other model makers and a depressed economy would have resulted in cheaper sets not more expensive. For example I can buy a new car cheaper than I could Four years ago. Who would have thought the TS industry was so confusing

 

[uksubs]

True, for example the price for a tank set has increased from US $89 to over US $200 in only a few years yet there appears to be no reduction in the number of new sets issued each month. Imo that is a recipe for disaster unless the production run has been reduced to compensate for lower demand. Further more, I would have thought increased competition from other model makers and a depressed economy would have resulted in cheaper sets not more expensive. For example I can buy a new car cheaper than I could Four years ago. Who would have thought the TS industry was so confusing

How do you know there is a less of a demand for Toy soldiers
To me a lot of people are spending more on toy soldiers as there money is making low returns in the banks + the amount of new stuff coming out prove that

 

[Vezzolf]

Times are tough and money is tight for most people....I predict that TS prices will roughly stay where they are for now with few increases.... I think most collectors have been stretched to their financial limits except for some.....Also with increased retail prices and increased toy soldier manufacturers producing comparable or even better products....I see no reason to consider playing the retired K/C game... those days are over in a big way as far as I can see.......Again this hobby was never meant to be an investment....With more financial woes to come on the horizon and the high cost of this hobby....many will exit and few will enter over the next 5 years....Sad I 'm afraid all too true.

 

[uksubs]

Times are tough and money is tight for most people....I predict that TS prices will roughly stay where they are for now with few increases.... I think most collectors have been stretched to their financial limits except for some.....Also with increased retail prices and increased toy soldier manufacturers producing comparable or even better products....I see no reason to consider playing the retired K/C game... those days are over in a big way as far as I can see.......Again this hobby was never meant to be an investment....With more financial woes to come on the horizon and the high cost of this hobby....many will exit and few will enter over the next 5 years....Sad I 'm afraid all too true.

I was shocked today to find out that three soldiers will cost you £90.00 ,the only way I can but these item is from the USA as long as the pound stay strong

 

[OzDigger]

How do you know there is a less of a demand for Toy soldiers
To me a lot of people are spending more on toy soldiers as there money is making low returns in the banks + the amount of new stuff coming out prove that

Subo, here's my post # 24, please read it.

I can only speak for my part of the world, which is actually better off than most countries. I have been collecting military models for over 30 years and I have Never seen the hobby so depressed. Of the dozens of collectors I know, there is only One guy that hasn't cut back on collecting. Every hobby shop that I know has reduced staff numbers and are actively seeking new customers to replace the regulars that have cut back their spending.

There will always be people with plenty of money which is lucky for King & Country considering their ever increasing prices. I just hope those big spenders are making up for the many less affluent customers that have cut back on what they buy.

 

[Rob]

I was shocked today to find out that three soldiers will cost you £90.00 ,the only way I can but these item is from the USA as long as the pound stay strong

But be careful as you will probably pay customs tax, postage and possibly a handling fee

Rob

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I can only speak for my part of the world, which is actually better off than most countries. I have been collecting military models for over 30 years and I have Never seen the hobby so depressed. Of the dozens of collectors I know, there is only One guy that hasn't cut back on collecting. Every hobby shop that I know has reduced staff numbers and are actively seeking new customers to replace the regulars that have cut back their spending.

There will always be people with plenty of money which is lucky for King & Country considering their ever increasing prices. I just hope those big spenders are making up for the many less affluent customers that have cut back on what they buy.

Oz...I couldn't agree with you more, and even though the retailers may be cutting back...and cutting staff...trying to add new customers to the TS hobby to stay afloat, it is an initiative far beyond a single retailer's ability...I am really surprised that manufacturer's and retailers have not gotten together to develop a comprehensive plan for reviving the TS market, but I think relatively short term goals or lack of capital (or both) have kept manufacturers from doing what they know is necessary to initiate a new generation of collectors.

I understand many manucaturers will state that their business philosophy includes creating pieces for adult collectors, but without "toy soldiers" appropriate for children (the period when I am guessing most of you were "hooked," whether you realized it or not), there is unlikely to be a very viable adult collectors market in the future. It will ultimately become a low volume/high end industry that excludes many of the current mid-range enthusiast because there won't be enough of us sustain it. No one wants to acknowledge it, but it is inevitable. Compare what TS collecting was in the 1960-70 to now...it has already become exclusive to our generation. "Metal TSs appropriate for 14 and up"?! How many 14-year olds can afford to collect these pieces? I am not complaining about the price, just pointing out the shift in consumer markets. I suspect it was in the mid-1980s that most established TS manufacturers recognized the waning child market and broke into "adult collector" pieces...lower volume, higher margin. What I think they failed to recognize was that the industry could only sustain itself for so long without infusing new blood.

If I were in the industry, I would be providing children's toy soldiers at the most nominal margin, virtually giving them away just to generate a legacy of adult toy soldier collecting and a vital future for my business.

I have seen only one really well thought out marketing campaign to introduce new adult collectors, and that was Del Prado. Despite some quality and distribution issues, they offered many mid-range lines at very affordable prices, inclusive of the Osprey booklets, and made them very visible. I suspect that every major manufacturer profited from their initiative...because once new collectors found they could afford a number of the Del Prado figures, they suddenly discovered and experiemented with some of the higher-end figures, many of who have become faithful patrons of all your favorite TS manufacturers.

That's all.

 

[tdubel]

Times are tough and money is tight for most people....I predict that TS prices will roughly stay where they are for now with few increases.... I think most collectors have been stretched to their financial limits except for some.....Also with increased retail prices and increased toy soldier manufacturers producing comparable or even better products....I see no reason to consider playing the retired K/C game... those days are over in a big way as far as I can see.......Again this hobby was never meant to be an investment....With more financial woes to come on the horizon and the high cost of this hobby....many will exit and few will enter over the next 5 years....Sad I 'm afraid all too true.

As usual, disagree here. I have had no issue selling pieces I want to sell and getting the prices I want. This is the pre 2005 K&C items I am talking about. Do I own a BB 008 Stug,, Yes,, would I like to sell...YEs, do I care if it sells,,,NO. That is a piece that is retired, but I don't care much about it. Point is, the oldies sell, old Matte, Glossy, etc. Some of the new stuff SELLS and HUGE. (Kings German Legion for one., some ARW sets). It is like every other collectible market.......Willing Buyer vs Willing Seller. As much as some on this board hate to admit, these things are worth money. Britains has been around for eons, would you care to try and become a Mint in Box Vintage Britains collector????? Better rob Fort Knox.

Tom

 

[OzDigger]

Oz...I couldn't agree with you more, and even though the retailers may be cutting back...and cutting staff...trying to add new customers to the TS hobby to stay afloat, it is an initiative far beyond a single retailer's ability...I am really surprised that manufacturer's and retailers have not gotten together to develop a comprehensive plan for reviving the TS market, but I think relatively short term goals or lack of capital (or both) have kept manufacturers from doing what they know is necessary to initiate a new generation of collectors.

I understand many manucaturers will state that their business philosophy includes creating pieces for adult collectors, but without "toy soldiers" appropriate for children (the period when I am guessing most of you were "hooked," whether you realized it or not), there is unlikely to be a very viable adult collectors market in the future. It will ultimately become a low volume/high end industry that excludes many of the current mid-range enthusiast because there won't be enough of us sustain it. No one wants to acknowledge it, but it is inevitable. Compare what TS collecting was in the 1960-70 to now...it has already become exclusive to our generation. "Metal TSs appropriate for 14 and up"?! How many 14-year olds can afford to collect these pieces? I am not complaining about the price, just pointing out the shift in consumer markets. I suspect it was in the mid-1980s that most established TS manufacturers recognized the waning child market and broke into "adult collector" pieces...lower volume, higher margin. What I think they failed to recognize was that the industry could only sustain itself for so long without infusing new blood.

If I were in the industry, I would be providing children's toy soldiers at the most nominal margin, virtually giving them away just to generate a legacy of adult toy soldier collecting and a vital future for my business.

I have seen only one really well thought out marketing campaign to introduce new adult collectors, and that was Del Prado. Despite some quality and distribution issues, they offered many mid-range lines at very affordable prices, inclusive of the Osprey booklets, and made them very visible. I suspect that every major manufacturer profited from their initiative...because once new collectors found they could afford a number of the Del Prado figures, they suddenly discovered and experiemented with some of the higher-end figures, many of who have become faithful patrons of all your favorite TS manufacturers.

That's all.

Good points there Nicholas, the FOV 1/32 range got me into larger tank sets and the Delprado figure/magazine range got me into King & Country.

I have mentioned it before but I think TS manufacturers should look at advertising via PC/Online and Console war games, especially those based on World War Two First Person Shooter. I have Two teenage boys and many of their friends play such war games and when they drop-in they like to check out my 1/30 collection, especially those naughty Germans.