Britain's Greatest General - National Army Museum (1 Viewer)

Louis & Rob,
Fantastic to see two great cobbers of mine go head to head over an issue of Military History without the interjectors coming in to make personal attacks. No whinging sheilas here.:) Keep up the great debate guys. One day we three will get together at a worldwide Treefrogger's convention and chew the fat over a very old bottle of scotch.
Cheers Howard:salute:::salute::

Hey Howard,

It is good to have a real back and forth debate isn't it without as you say personal stuff. Louis, yourself, Mitch and others have all made very good points.and as it's getting late here and I'm doing all this from my mobile...I won't mention Arnhem!:wink2:^&grin:salute::

Good night guys and thanks for a great thread

Rob
 
Latest results from the National Army Museum poll - Monty has moved from 4th to 5th. (Happy Louis :wink2:)

Haig 655
Slim 570
Wellington 257
Duke of Marlborough 249
Monty 244

Gazza
 
Louis...

Just a couple of points to the post for Rob. Stumme died of a heart attack and yes this paralysed the axis forces until Thoma took over but, the battle with all the advantages you state was still not a sure fire victory and Rommel was in field you make out that he was gone from the theatre in absolute.

I have read the books in question but, again I don't believe in reading between the lines or guess working decisions by field commanders thats been very much the heart of the problemin academice prose over what are controversial characters. I responded to Jazzeum that much was stated about the envy from senior officers under his command and, again its all what if's and supposition that they would really have done any different or any better. I don't disagree about the hubris I think that was part of the media influence in the war which, in terms of combat, was quite knew IMO but, its arguable, that although this was part it was militarily based decisions that motivated Monty first.
Mitch

Mitch,

You are obviously as well or better read on the subject than I am, and from the same references we have reached different conclusions about Monty. I think that both of our conclusions are supportable on fair interpretations of the facts, and therefore I respect your opinion, and acknowledge that it may certainly prove to be correct.

Perhaps I am too harsh in my assessment of generals. As you can tell from my posts, I have a very harsh opinion of many commanders, including Patton (whom I think was far worse than Monty), Montgomery, Boy Browning, Mark Clark, and Douglas MacArthur. In earlier wars I am very critical of Haig, Pershing, pretty much every French commander of WWI before the mutiny, pretty much every Union commander in the US civil war except W.T. Sherman (I do condemn Grant as a butcher thanks to Cold Harbor), most Confederate commanders except Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, the Irish general whose name presently escapes me, and Jim Longstreet. I value the lives of the brave men who serve in the Allied armies and give us all our lives, so I tend to be very harsh in my assessment of generals who arguably place glory above the lives of these brave Allied troops, or who make tactical decisions which (in my opinion) unnecessarily cost the lives of these brave men.

I don't tend to overlook or forgive their mistakes. To me, a general's only concern should be achieving his assigned objective, or taking advantage of opportunities to achieve victory, at a minimal loss of lives to the troops under his command. I would never myself want to lead troops, as I would feel responsible for every single man who died. What I can't understand is how the generals I tend to criticize can live with themselves after the casaulties caused by their (correct or incorrect) decisions.
 
Latest results from the National Army Museum poll - Monty has moved from 4th to 5th. (Happy Louis :wink2:)

Haig 655
Slim 570
Wellington 257
Duke of Marlborough 249
Monty 244

Gazza

Not until Haig drops out of the top spot.
 
How does the National Army Museum measure "greatest?" It can't be like the U.S. Supreme Court justice who defined "obscenity" as "I know it when I see it." If the definition is kept to someone who combined grand strategy, tactics, realpolitics, etc., then there would be fewer Brits on the short list. Then, you have to decide who was not only "great" in his own age, but who, like a Nelson, would be "great" in any age. If you want to weigh in with a leader's personal & professional shortcomings to the nth degree, then you are left with no one.

That's a great point, and I might add, it is absolutely criminal that none of us have mentioned Nelson is the discussion of great British commanders. The man was an absolute genious, and adding him to the list of choices, I would have to out him second after Wellington on my list.
 
Louis & Rob,
Fantastic to see two great cobbers of mine go head to head over an issue of Military History without the interjectors coming in to make personal attacks. No whinging sheilas here.:) Keep up the great debate guys. One day we three will get together at a worldwide Treefrogger's convention and chew the fat over a very old bottle of scotch.
Cheers Howard:salute:::salute::

I'm in, brother!^&grin
 
That's a great point, and I might add, it is absolutely criminal that none of us have mentioned Nelson is the discussion of great British commanders. The man was an absolute genious, and adding him to the list of choices, I would have to out him second after Wellington on my list.

I would agree but as it is the National Army Museum that is running it I understand why he is left out.
 
Louis...

Its what historians have done since the end of hostilities. I think the points you raise, are where the other issues I feel are important, come into play. Rather than trying to take the individual out of his historical context in isolation and scrutinizing their actions by our modern standards which, has happened all to often you address the socio economic and political values of the time.

I am sure these deaths were disturbing to them (in the way they viewed death on the battlefield) but, I think say, yourself can see possibly no passion or indifference in their attitude I see indoctrined military values and traditions of the time. Monty was a commisioned officer at 21 (I could not imagine being in that position myself with all that holds) so, a life long career soldier imbued with the tradition of the British Army. now good or bad emotion, in front of troops etc was seen as weakness and they were at war and a war that had to be won.

All the work and, there is plenty will never allow us to really know what he thought about the losses I do recal him saying in an interview he was grieved at losing any but, war causes casualties (which, again could be taken both ways a caring side and a dispassionate one) and, as I said they were not as disasterous as they could have been in face of stubborn defence by an aggressive foe. I try to evaluate not from the way that we address the loss of life nowadays but, in the context they worked then and, it was very different.
Interesting debate.
Mitch

dolato;366310]Mitch,

You are obviously as well or better read on the subject than I am, and from the same references we have reached different conclusions about Monty.

Perhaps I am too harsh in my assessment of generals. As you can tell from my posts, I have a very harsh opinion of many commanders, including Patton (whom I think was far worse than Monty), Montgomery, Boy Browning, Mark Clark, and Douglas MacArthur. In earlier wars I am very critical of Haig, Pershing, pretty much every French commander of WWI before the mutiny, pretty much every Union commander in the US civil war except W.T. Sherman (I do condemn Grant as a butcher thanks to Cold Harbor), most Confederate commanders except Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, the Irish general whose name presently escapes me, and Jim Longstreet. I value the lives of the brave men who serve in the Allied armies and give us all our lives, so I tend to be very harsh in my assessment of generals who arguably place glory above the lives of these brave Allied troops, or who make tactical decisions which (in my opinion) unnecessarily cost the lives of these brave men.

I don't tend to overlook or forgive their mistakes. To me, a general's only concern should be achieving his assigned objective, or taking advantage of opportunities to achieve victory, at a minimal loss of lives to the troops under his command. I would never myself want to lead troops, as I would feel responsible for every single man who died. What I can't understand is how the generals I tend to criticize can live with themselves after the casaulties caused by their (correct or incorrect) decisions.[/QUOTE]
 
Louis,
I think the Irish general you mentioned of the ACW is Patrick Cleburne.You said you don't see how these generals could live with themselves after the casualities incurred in battles they commanded.I don't either but that is why we are not military commanders.I'm sure the casualities did weigh very very heavily upon them but you have to look at what was at stake,especially in WWII.
Mark
 
I know that I'm weighing in a bit late on this discussion - but could I put a word in for -well - not exactly a General, per-se, but a charismatic leader nevertheless - (and we never had the term "General" in Wales in 1270!)

I would like to nominate Dafydd ap Llewelyn - the real Welsh Prince of Wales! If he's not on your list - well - Tuff! - he ought to be. As a champion of an oppressed minority, he was in a class of his own!

That he failed - was due to Celtic infighting!

Diolch (Thank-you). johnnybach:)

P.S. As a fellow Celt - I quite liked Arthur Weleslly as well - even though he changed his name!
 
Hey Johnnybach,

Unfortunately its not a forum vote, it's commanders nominated by the National army museum.See list of nominations in first post

Cheers

Rob




I know that I'm weighing in a bit late on this discussion - but could I put a word in for -well - not exactly a General, per-se, but a charismatic leader nevertheless - (and we never had the term "General" in Wales in 1270!)

I would like to nominate Dafydd ap Llewelyn - the real Welsh Prince of Wales! If he's not on your list - well - Tuff! - he ought to be. As a champion of an oppressed minority, he was in a class of his own!

That he failed - was due to Celtic infighting!

Diolch (Thank-you). johnnybach:)

P.S. As a fellow Celt - I quite liked Arthur Weleslly as well - even though he changed his name!
 
I don't see Gentleman Johnny or Lord Cornwallis on the list.:wink2: -- Al
 
With all due respect Montgomery would not make any list were it not for El Alamein. His advocates seem to conveniently forget the battle for Caen, which was scheduled for capture on D-Day (6 June 1944). It took all of the following actions (with the ensuing delays and incurred casualties), all commanded by Montgomery, to finally capture this critically important city in August;
Operation Neptune
Operation Perch
Le Mesnil-Patry
Operation Marlet
Operation Epsom
Operation Winsor
Operation Charnwood
Operation Jupiter
Operation Goodood

If that weren’t enough, previously on this forum I have discussed, in detail, Montgomery’s comprehensive failure in the planning and “execution” (a gruesome pun) of Operation Market-Garden.

On this forum I am normally a toy soldier collector. However, when it comes to Montgomery, “my rudder is hard over”. As far as I’m concerned personally, by his actions he destroyed the British 1st Airborne Division at Arnhem. The following is lengthy, and I apologize for that, but I want to be able to fully establish my personal judgment of the man as a military commander.

As a naval intelligence officer and student of military history I became intrigued with the World War II epic action of the British 1st Airborne Division at the Battle of Arnhem, also known as Operation Market-Garden, 17-25 September 1944. I have studied the battle, acquired substantial original source documentation, including Operation Orders and After Action Reports, and toured the actual battlefields in Arnhem, Oosterbeek and adjacent dropping and landing zones at Ginkels and Renkum Heaths, all over a span of nearly forty years. The Battle of Arnhem provides a classic case of the momentum of war, exacerbated by the inordinately extreme egos of the command leadership, exercised in the face of incontrovertible and detailed intelligence and in comprehensive violation of well established, battle-proven strategy, tactics and doctrine.

Montgomery’s and Browning’s apparent combined ignorance of this new type of warfare was only exceeded by their pompous arrogance, recalcitrance and unbelievably engorged egos. It has been stated that if Montgomery had advanced his concept for Market-Garden as a young staff officer attending the Royal Dutch Military Command College, he would have been cashiered out of the course, and very possibly the army. (Single axis of attack and logistics, lack of infantry support of armor, limited maneuver room (single road on raised embankment) and bad trafficability (flat and marshy) for armor, three major rivers and three canal systems (six bridges), length of time before linking up with the airborne elements, to cite but a few fatal flaws.) Admittedly this is a fairly strong indictment of these two leaders, however I believe an overwhelming case can be made based upon an obscure, thin but incisive, official publication of the British Army which was patently ignored and violated by both these high ranking officers.

The document is entitled, AIRBORNE OPERATIONS, Pamphlet No. 1, GENERAL, 1943 (Provisional), May, 1943. Prepared under the direction of The Chief of the Imperial General Staff. In its 49 pages the pamphlet details "considerations" (read battle proven axioms) regarding the planning and execution of airborne operations. The contents of this document were subsequently further codified and discussed in greater detail in a major volume entitled AIRBORNE FORCES, LtCol T.B.H. Otway, DSO, Army Council, HMSO, London, 1951 (Confidential). When the overall strategy and planning for Operation Market-Garden are compared with the contents of the pamphlet, it is as if each one of the fundamental elements was reviewed, then categorically ignored or violated. Only four significant individuals questioned the planning, Crown Prince Bernard of the Netherlands, titular CinC of Dutch Forces in exile, MajGen Stanislaw Sosabowski, OC, 1st Independent Polish Parachute Brigade and Maj Brian Urquhart, Browning's intelligence officer (later Deputy Secretary-General of the United Nations). Each was ignored and/or rebuked, and in Maj Urquhart's case, relieved for alleged "battle fatigue". In addition, and most significantly, LtGen Browning reviewed the plan with MajGen Richard "Windy" Gale, OC, 6th Airborne Division, who had commanded that division during highly successful D-Day operations at Normandy, only a few months earlier. MajGen Gale expressed serious reservations regarding the plans for Operation Market-Garden. LtGen Browning chose to totally ignore his adamant recommendations. It is truly ironic that although not classified. the cover of the pamphlet contains two strongly worded admonitions; NOT TO BE PUBLISHED, The information given in this document is not to be communicated, either directly or indirectly, to the Press or any person not holding an official position in His Majesty's Service and THIS DOCUMENT MUST NOT FALL INTO ENEMY HANDS. Apparently it didn't even fall into the hands it should have, let alone those of the enemy.

Returning to the planning and operational instructions detailed in the pamphlet AIRBORNE OPERATIONS compared with the actual planning for Operation Market-Garden, it should be acknowledged that the errors which were made have been extensively defined and analyzed in several extremely well researched and written books. These include definitive works by eminent authors, Cornelius Ryan, Peter Herclerode, Martin Middlebrook, Max Arthur, Robert J. Kershaw, John Fairley, and Maurice Tugwell, to name just a few. In addition, ranking actual participants, MajGen Roy E. Urquhart, CB, DSO, OC, 1st Airborne Division, MajGen John D. Frost, CB, DSO, MC, OC, 2nd Battalion, The Parachute Regiment, as well as key subordinates, have also authored excellent books. However, to the best of my knowledge, no one to date has specifically cited how every significant part and article of the pamphlet was either categorically ignored or violated. In order to do this in a structured manner the pertinent Part number, subordinate article and sub-article will be cited as they sequentially appear. For those who may not be familiar in detail with the actual planning and execution of the operation, a short statement of the acknowledged historical facts will follow each notation. The entire pamphlet is not reproduced herein, so the reader will have to rely on the integrity and objectivity of the author that all pertinent elements are included, and that in the opinion of the author the omitted text would not provide either opposing or mitigating information.Given the fluidity of the European Theatre of Operations extant in late August of 1944, compounded by the extreme stretch of logistical support confronting the Allied Forces, a great deal of latitude must be afforded the field commanders in the conduct of combat operations at both a tactical and strategic level. The overall concept of Operation Market-Garden was if not brilliant, certainly unique. As regards the planning and execution, it can be said, "the devil was in the details". Unfortunately those details contained in a seemingly obscure pamphlet of the British Army, in the opinion of the author, were categorically ignored and violated. The elements, which appear to have substantially contributed to this disregard, are in nominal ranked order of importance as follows:

• Violation of basic axioms of airborne warfare by senior commanders (specifically multiple lifts versus a single lift thus dividing the mass of the1st Airborne Division, and losing the element of surprise for follow-on elements.)
• The lack of knowledge of the capabilities and limitations of airborne troops, and/or the application of that knowledge, by senior commanders (specifically the selection of DZs and LZs of excessive distance from the division's objective, given its inherent limited mobility. Taken in combination with multiple lifts the two factors produced a compound negative effect.)
• The inordinate egos and inflexibility of senior commanders (this factor permeated the entire planning process)
• The repeated abject rejection of critical intelligence by senior commanders
• Total disregard of advice and counsel from combat proven airborne commanders by senior commanders
• Lack of interoperability between the Airborne Forces and the RAF and USAAF Troop Carrier Commands
• Disregard for the resilience, defensive operational capabilities and tactical improvisation of German Forces by senior commanders
• The momentum of combat operations

Taken in totality the compounded errors were overwhelming, if not synergistic, in guaranteeing failure. It is only at the top that commanders, and as importantly their staffs, can integrate all the requisite elements of victory. When it is achieved it is the commander who receives the laurels; conversely in failure he has to take the mantle of responsibility. In the case of Operation Market-Garden it is my personal opinion that Field Marshal Montgomery and Lieut-General Browning failed on both counts.

As a result of all these factors it was indeed, as LtGen Browning is purported to have commented, perhaps "A Bridge Too Far".

Suffices to say, even as a “Colonial” I totally agree with Louis Bataloto, and voted for GEN (later Field Marshal) Sir William Joseph “Bill” Slim, G.O.C.-C, FOURTEENTH ARMY. As regards Montgomery, sometime I'll tell you what I really think.
Respectfully submitted,
CAPT James A. Gordon, Jr., USN(Rtd), aka Arnhemjim, with apologies for pulling rank on this topic.
 
Outstandingly presented argument, Arnhemjim. Best reasoning I have read in a long time and without emotion to tinge it. I am not a Monty fan, but I have not studied him as others on this forum have, so I only have superficial impressions that I have picked up in passing. I have never been impressed with his ETO generalship and have not really understood the adoration for the victory at Alamein when losing was all but impossible given the advantages that he had over the Axis forces. Britain had any number of better generals than Monty, including, IMHO, Slim, O'Conner, and Brooke. -- Al
 
Thats a very good point, however, when you put something out to the vote like this everybody has different criteria and will vote on not just statistics but how they feel about certain Generals and perhaps on an area they have an interest in.

Very interesting none the less and Wellington surely has to be right up there.:salute::

Rob

Well, any other method is anecdotal. But I do take your point as I remember the national poll about the greatest English man or woman and Churchill narrowly beat Princess Diana.

Another point is that this list is too broad. to be a genuine contender, the nominee should actually be a general or top commander, not a sub-commander. BTW, would Churchill be a genuine nominee?
 
Well, any other method is anecdotal. But I do take your point as I remember the national poll about the greatest English man or woman and Churchill narrowly beat Princess Diana.

The poll was actually for the Greatest Britain; run by the BBC and contrary to the myth that 'Churchill narrowly beat Diana' the results were actually:

(1) Churchill 456,498

(2) Brunel 398,526

(3) Diana 225,584

By my book, not even close :smile2::smile2:

Cheers

Gazza
 
With all due respect Montgomery would not make any list were it not for El Alamein. His advocates seem to conveniently forget the battle for Caen, which was scheduled for capture on D-Day (6 June 1944). It took all of the following actions (with the ensuing delays and incurred casualties), all commanded by Montgomery, to finally capture this critically important city in August;
Operation Neptune
Operation Perch
Le Mesnil-Patry
Operation Marlet
Operation Epsom
Operation Winsor
Operation Charnwood
Operation Jupiter
Operation Goodood

If that weren’t enough, previously on this forum I have discussed, in detail, Montgomery’s comprehensive failure in the planning and “execution” (a gruesome pun) of Operation Market-Garden.

On this forum I am normally a toy soldier collector. However, when it comes to Montgomery, “my rudder is hard over”. As far as I’m concerned personally, by his actions he destroyed the British 1st Airborne Division at Arnhem. The following is lengthy, and I apologize for that, but I want to be able to fully establish my personal judgment of the man as a military commander.

As a naval intelligence officer and student of military history I became intrigued with the World War II epic action of the British 1st Airborne Division at the Battle of Arnhem, also known as Operation Market-Garden, 17-25 September 1944. I have studied the battle, acquired substantial original source documentation, including Operation Orders and After Action Reports, and toured the actual battlefields in Arnhem, Oosterbeek and adjacent dropping and landing zones at Ginkels and Renkum Heaths, all over a span of nearly forty years. The Battle of Arnhem provides a classic case of the momentum of war, exacerbated by the inordinately extreme egos of the command leadership, exercised in the face of incontrovertible and detailed intelligence and in comprehensive violation of well established, battle-proven strategy, tactics and doctrine.

Montgomery’s and Browning’s apparent combined ignorance of this new type of warfare was only exceeded by their pompous arrogance, recalcitrance and unbelievably engorged egos. It has been stated that if Montgomery had advanced his concept for Market-Garden as a young staff officer attending the Royal Dutch Military Command College, he would have been cashiered out of the course, and very possibly the army. (Single axis of attack and logistics, lack of infantry support of armor, limited maneuver room (single road on raised embankment) and bad trafficability (flat and marshy) for armor, three major rivers and three canal systems (six bridges), length of time before linking up with the airborne elements, to cite but a few fatal flaws.) Admittedly this is a fairly strong indictment of these two leaders, however I believe an overwhelming case can be made based upon an obscure, thin but incisive, official publication of the British Army which was patently ignored and violated by both these high ranking officers.

The document is entitled, AIRBORNE OPERATIONS, Pamphlet No. 1, GENERAL, 1943 (Provisional), May, 1943. Prepared under the direction of The Chief of the Imperial General Staff. In its 49 pages the pamphlet details "considerations" (read battle proven axioms) regarding the planning and execution of airborne operations. The contents of this document were subsequently further codified and discussed in greater detail in a major volume entitled AIRBORNE FORCES, LtCol T.B.H. Otway, DSO, Army Council, HMSO, London, 1951 (Confidential). When the overall strategy and planning for Operation Market-Garden are compared with the contents of the pamphlet, it is as if each one of the fundamental elements was reviewed, then categorically ignored or violated. Only four significant individuals questioned the planning, Crown Prince Bernard of the Netherlands, titular CinC of Dutch Forces in exile, MajGen Stanislaw Sosabowski, OC, 1st Independent Polish Parachute Brigade and Maj Brian Urquhart, Browning's intelligence officer (later Deputy Secretary-General of the United Nations). Each was ignored and/or rebuked, and in Maj Urquhart's case, relieved for alleged "battle fatigue". In addition, and most significantly, LtGen Browning reviewed the plan with MajGen Richard "Windy" Gale, OC, 6th Airborne Division, who had commanded that division during highly successful D-Day operations at Normandy, only a few months earlier. MajGen Gale expressed serious reservations regarding the plans for Operation Market-Garden. LtGen Browning chose to totally ignore his adamant recommendations. It is truly ironic that although not classified. the cover of the pamphlet contains two strongly worded admonitions; NOT TO BE PUBLISHED, The information given in this document is not to be communicated, either directly or indirectly, to the Press or any person not holding an official position in His Majesty's Service and THIS DOCUMENT MUST NOT FALL INTO ENEMY HANDS. Apparently it didn't even fall into the hands it should have, let alone those of the enemy.

Returning to the planning and operational instructions detailed in the pamphlet AIRBORNE OPERATIONS compared with the actual planning for Operation Market-Garden, it should be acknowledged that the errors which were made have been extensively defined and analyzed in several extremely well researched and written books. These include definitive works by eminent authors, Cornelius Ryan, Peter Herclerode, Martin Middlebrook, Max Arthur, Robert J. Kershaw, John Fairley, and Maurice Tugwell, to name just a few. In addition, ranking actual participants, MajGen Roy E. Urquhart, CB, DSO, OC, 1st Airborne Division, MajGen John D. Frost, CB, DSO, MC, OC, 2nd Battalion, The Parachute Regiment, as well as key subordinates, have also authored excellent books. However, to the best of my knowledge, no one to date has specifically cited how every significant part and article of the pamphlet was either categorically ignored or violated. In order to do this in a structured manner the pertinent Part number, subordinate article and sub-article will be cited as they sequentially appear. For those who may not be familiar in detail with the actual planning and execution of the operation, a short statement of the acknowledged historical facts will follow each notation. The entire pamphlet is not reproduced herein, so the reader will have to rely on the integrity and objectivity of the author that all pertinent elements are included, and that in the opinion of the author the omitted text would not provide either opposing or mitigating information.Given the fluidity of the European Theatre of Operations extant in late August of 1944, compounded by the extreme stretch of logistical support confronting the Allied Forces, a great deal of latitude must be afforded the field commanders in the conduct of combat operations at both a tactical and strategic level. The overall concept of Operation Market-Garden was if not brilliant, certainly unique. As regards the planning and execution, it can be said, "the devil was in the details". Unfortunately those details contained in a seemingly obscure pamphlet of the British Army, in the opinion of the author, were categorically ignored and violated. The elements, which appear to have substantially contributed to this disregard, are in nominal ranked order of importance as follows:

• Violation of basic axioms of airborne warfare by senior commanders (specifically multiple lifts versus a single lift thus dividing the mass of the1st Airborne Division, and losing the element of surprise for follow-on elements.)
• The lack of knowledge of the capabilities and limitations of airborne troops, and/or the application of that knowledge, by senior commanders (specifically the selection of DZs and LZs of excessive distance from the division's objective, given its inherent limited mobility. Taken in combination with multiple lifts the two factors produced a compound negative effect.)
• The inordinate egos and inflexibility of senior commanders (this factor permeated the entire planning process)
• The repeated abject rejection of critical intelligence by senior commanders
• Total disregard of advice and counsel from combat proven airborne commanders by senior commanders
• Lack of interoperability between the Airborne Forces and the RAF and USAAF Troop Carrier Commands
• Disregard for the resilience, defensive operational capabilities and tactical improvisation of German Forces by senior commanders
• The momentum of combat operations

Taken in totality the compounded errors were overwhelming, if not synergistic, in guaranteeing failure. It is only at the top that commanders, and as importantly their staffs, can integrate all the requisite elements of victory. When it is achieved it is the commander who receives the laurels; conversely in failure he has to take the mantle of responsibility. In the case of Operation Market-Garden it is my personal opinion that Field Marshal Montgomery and Lieut-General Browning failed on both counts.

As a result of all these factors it was indeed, as LtGen Browning is purported to have commented, perhaps "A Bridge Too Far".

Suffices to say, even as a “Colonial” I totally agree with Louis Bataloto, and voted for GEN (later Field Marshal) Sir William Joseph “Bill” Slim, G.O.C.-C, FOURTEENTH ARMY. As regards Montgomery, sometime I'll tell you what I really think.
Respectfully submitted,
CAPT James A. Gordon, Jr., USN(Rtd), aka Arnhemjim, with apologies for pulling rank on this topic.

Wow, Captain Gordon! If I ever decide to write a novel about Operation Market Garden, I am contacting you and saving myself months of research. Thanks for the education, and I mean that sincerely.
 
Excellent post though it begs one glaring question on my end....

Exactly how does a career Navy Intel officer become interested in Arnhem?? I don't exactly see the cause/effect of the enormous expertise you have on the subject matter. ^&grin

Oh- btw-

GO ARMY!!

As a naval intelligence officer and student of military history I became intrigued with the World War II epic action of the British 1st Airborne Division at the Battle of Arnhem, also known as Operation Market-Garden, 17-25 September 1944. I have studied the battle, acquired substantial original source documentation, including Operation Orders and After Action Reports, and toured the actual battlefields in Arnhem, Oosterbeek and adjacent dropping and landing zones at Ginkels and Renkum Heaths, all over a span of nearly forty years.
 

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