Collectors Showcase eBay sales of DAK & ACW (4 Viewers)

[tdubel]

Getting a little tired with this thread.

Most on here need to realize and understand business/economics. All retailers move out end of inventory. Brian is being pretty honest in this regard, this is just a reality.

This is supposed to be a hobby, so I am not sure what the references to the market are?? The only true market I know of is "Retired" K&C and then I read the cries and complaints at the values they bring???

Look, not every piece made is a "home run", K&C has a bunch of duds in sales as do Britains, etc. Those pieces should make the clearance run at some point, that is plain business. IN Brian's case, his company is smaller, his run of products is smaller, he is growing, but until he finds a full business run for his 300 pieces, some will end on clearance, that is just the way it is.

Still not sure what the gripe is with all of this. ITS A HOBBY. If you want to invest in all seriousness, look elsewhere, there are much better investments.

Supply vs demand drives markets, inventory plays a crucial part of this, when it becomes obsolete (or in this case out of favor), then it is disposed of in the most efficient means possible (clearance sale).

TD

 

[APACHEJOL]

For those who are tired of the tread dont read it. And the economic lesson has to do with the way big companys run thier bussiness. Wal-Mart etc. Hardly has anything to do with the little toy soldier market.

 

[Harrytheheid]

Presently on an accommodation vessel in the Gulf of Thailand. The only alternative to the incredibly dull Thai TV is this awesome thread..... People have been wondering what's making me guffaw with laughter every time I log in here.....
Thanks guys - especially all you "Grown-Ups".......

 

[jazzeum]

Presently on an accommodation vessel in the Gulf of Thailand. The only alternative to the incredibly dull Thai TV is this awesome thread..... People have been wondering what's making me guffaw with laughter every time I log in here.....
Thanks guys - especially all you "Grown-Ups".......

Yes, I wonder if RD is still camped out at Brian's house

 

[Harrytheheid]

Well I will say one thing. This CS thread is better than the K and C thread. Used to be only on the K and C thread you could enjoy a good old fashioned virtual barney. That is quite tame these days. All the action is over here on CS

It's brilliant innit Damian..??

 

[Mister Dave]

Getting a little tired with this thread.

Most on here need to realize and understand business/economics. All retailers move out end of inventory. Brian is being pretty honest in this regard, this is just a reality.

This is supposed to be a hobby, so I am not sure what the references to the market are?? The only true market I know of is "Retired" K&C and then I read the cries and complaints at the values they bring???

Look, not every piece made is a "home run", K&C has a bunch of duds in sales as do Britains, etc. Those pieces should make the clearance run at some point, that is plain business. IN Brian's case, his company is smaller, his run of products is smaller, he is growing, but until he finds a full business run for his 300 pieces, some will end on clearance, that is just the way it is.

Still not sure what the gripe is with all of this. ITS A HOBBY. If you want to invest in all seriousness, look elsewhere, there are much better investments.

Supply vs demand drives markets, inventory plays a crucial part of this, when it becomes obsolete (or in this case out of favor), then it is disposed of in the most efficient means possible (clearance sale).

TD

TD, I was going to compose pretty much the same post this morning and I don't think I could have said it any better. I do not have any vested interested in, nor do I collect CS products. I also do not collect K&C products, WWII or ACW. Simply stated, don't buy the products if you don't like them, don't deal with the company if you don't like it, but lets not persist in this most tiresome, unproductive thrashing of a small company trying to make its way in the toy soldier industry.

MD

 

[Harrytheheid]

Note from the forum administrator:

I have received several messages of concern about this thread with calls to remove it, edit it and so forth. However since Brian from Collector's Showcase doesn't have a problem with it and actually states "I find this debate lively, healthy and good for the industry" and because many members are interested in all the topics of conversation going on here I see no reason to remove the thread at this time.
Remember to stay civil and objective when you post and carry on.

several messages of concern about this thread with calls to remove it, edit it and so forth.

Hmmm....now I wonder who might possibly be so concerned as to call for removal, editing and so forth of other people's legitimate posts..??
The usual suspects - I suspect....

 

[APACHEJOL]

Hard to believe on a forum that people would tell other people what they should post or not post. If you are a grown up the grown up thing to do would be to not read or post on the thread if you dont like it. So many grown ups collecting toys!

 

[Mister Dave]

Hard to believe on a forum that people would tell other people what they should post or not post. If you are a grown up the grown up thing to do would be to not read or post on the thread if you dont like it. So many grown ups collecting toys!

Not surprising you have something miserable to say in response to productive feedback.

 

[APACHEJOL]

Is that a personal attack I call for editing!

 

[tdubel]

For those who are tired of the tread dont read it. And the economic lesson has to do with the way big companys run thier bussiness. Wal-Mart etc. Hardly has anything to do with the little toy soldier market.

Negative, economics exist on ALL scales. I will give you a perfect example:

Tommy Bahama Clothing started as a very small boutique outfit. I have bought those clothes since the mail order days. Even back then, on much smaller production runs than now, they had CLEARANCE SALES on end of season or RETIRED merchandise.

That is economics/business 101. Disclaimer, I am a practicing CPA with clients that range from national Fortune 500 to mom and pops, not to say that I am a know it all, just putting it out there that I have relative experience in these areas.

TD

 

[APACHEJOL]

Negative, economics exist on ALL scales. I will give you a perfect example:

Tommy Bahama Clothing started as a very small boutique outfit. I have bought those clothes since the mail order days. Even back then, on much smaller production runs than now, they had CLEARANCE SALES on end of season or RETIRED merchandise.

That is economics/business 101. Disclaimer, I am a practicing CPA with clients that range from national Fortune 500 to mom and pops, not to say that I am a know it all, just putting it out there that I have relative experience in these areas.

TD

You are right. But I can tell you another side I ran a construction company for five years and I can tell you that undercutting in whatever area it is done in has a devastating effect. And it is always the consumer who gets caught in the middle of it and eventually pays the price. The deal is never as good as it sound. Thanks Joel

 

[APACHEJOL]

The devastaing effect is lousy cheap product overtime.

 

[tdubel]

Joel,
I would tend to agree with you on the Construction industry as I have quite a bit of experience (financial side) there too.

BUT, we are talking toy soldiers, Brian is undercutting no one but himself, it is simply a disposal of inventory. Maybe he should have only made 200 to 250 production runs as that was what the demand was at full price? As for his dealer issues, as long as they sell what they ordered, I doubt there would be any issues, if they are stuck with 1 or 2 pieces, they probably still have the room to clearance it out too if need be.

I think retail is a unique industry in the fact that most products are worth more at the beginning of production then at the end, toy soldiers are no different. NOw, K&C is the market leader, therefore they enjoy higher prices and higher returns b/c of popularity and longevity. Let's be honest, quality and attractiveness are all in the eyes of the beholder. Point being, as I said before, K&C has a few "Duds" that come to mind that need to be on clearance if they will ever sell and I think Andy should let them do that, they are in essence dead inventory.

My 2 cents

TD

 

[Peter Reuss]

This has been a very intriguing thread that gets to the heart of the toy soldier industry.

On the one hand, I can understand that lower prices mean good deals for collectors and that from time to time dealers and/or manufacturers need to move old stock to make room for new stock.

There are dangers associated with such discounting. I remember when we first got into Britains (in the old RC2 days). Britains would consistently overproduce products. We could count on the fact that sets would eventually be put on clearance (often at ½ or more off the original price). Because of this, wise dealers did not stock up too much at regular prices. They simply waited for the sales to come and then added to their stock at good prices. Often the dealers passed those savings along. I remember talking to a customer who told me, “I really like this new set, but I’ll wait until it’s on clearance.” This became an unending cycle, with few people willing to buy items at full price. While in the short run this helped dealers move the product, in the long run it hindered Britains ability to come out with a quality new product. The whole brand went down the tubes until First Gear bought it and put an end to the discounting. Britains is now doing very nice work with products that don’t need to be discounted to ‘get rid of it.’

The dealer network is quite important to most toy soldier companies. While there are many small manufacturers who produce small enough numbers to rely on direct selling to customers (often making items one by one to order), the reality is that most toy soldier companies (especially ones who have production runs to sell) rely on the dealers to bring visibility to their products. The masses of collectors work through dealers. Many dealers are quite hesitant to promote a product when they feel that the manufacturer is working against them and taking their customers. We have not directly experienced this, but I know other dealers who have dropped brands because they saw that the manufacturer undercut them on price. A manufacturer who loses dealers is losing exposure in the marketplace, and let's face it, there aren't all that many retailers to begin with, especially ones with the capital needed to carry inventory.

There are times when a company’s past offerings are not the quality of the upcoming sets and the company works through dealers to get rid of old stock. The idea is that the devaluing of the old stock will be outweighed by the quality of the new stock. The hope is that collectors will not come to expect such discounting for newer product.

The challenge does exist for small companies with excesses of stock. As long as the stock sits, money is not free to invest in new, more exciting products. Hard decisions have to be made as to how to move out the old to make room for the new.

Because of all this, I don’t think this thread is necessarily an issue of ‘investor or collector.’ History has shown that manufacturers who have consistently needed to dump old product have struggled. The challenge is for manufacturers to find that fine line between making large enough production runs to cover set up expenses and making too many to flood the market.

Just a few thoughts from the our side of things...

Pete

 

[panzer441]

Hi Pete, I am the person who started this thread. Thank you for taking your time and well thought out respose . I hope other people will respond specifically to your thread.The other comments have been very interesting but yours is most important and needs to be considered by collectors and manufacturers. As a collector, I want low prices and quality new products at the same time.

 

[APACHEJOL]

This has been a very intriguing thread that gets to the heart of the toy soldier industry.

On the one hand, I can understand that lower prices mean good deals for collectors and that from time to time dealers and/or manufacturers need to move old stock to make room for new stock.

There are dangers associated with such discounting. I remember when we first got into Britains (in the old RC2 days). Britains would consistently overproduce products. We could count on the fact that sets would eventually be put on clearance (often at ½ or more off the original price). Because of this, wise dealers did not stock up too much at regular prices. They simply waited for the sales to come and then added to their stock at good prices. Often the dealers passed those savings along. I remember talking to a customer who told me, “I really like this new set, but I’ll wait until it’s on clearance.” This became an unending cycle, with few people willing to buy items at full price. While in the short run this helped dealers move the product, in the long run it hindered Britains ability to come out with a quality new product. The whole brand went down the tubes until First Gear bought it and put an end to the discounting. Britains is now doing very nice work with products that don’t need to be discounted to ‘get rid of it.’

The dealer network is quite important to most toy soldier companies. While there are many small manufacturers who produce small enough numbers to rely on direct selling to customers (often making items one by one to order), the reality is that most toy soldier companies (especially ones who have production runs to sell) rely on the dealers to bring visibility to their products. The masses of collectors work through dealers. Many dealers are quite hesitant to promote a product when they feel that the manufacturer is working against them and taking their customers. We have not directly experienced this, but I know other dealers who have dropped brands because they saw that the manufacturer undercut them on price. A manufacturer who loses dealers is losing exposure in the marketplace, and let's face it, there aren't all that many retailers to begin with, especially ones with the capital needed to carry inventory.

There are times when a company’s past offerings are not the quality of the upcoming sets and the company works through dealers to get rid of old stock. The idea is that the devaluing of the old stock will be outweighed by the quality of the new stock. The hope is that collectors will not come to expect such discounting for newer product.

The challenge does exist for small companies with excesses of stock. As long as the stock sits, money is not free to invest in new, more exciting products. Hard decisions have to be made as to how to move out the old to make room for the new.

Because of all this, I don’t think this thread is necessarily an issue of ‘investor or collector.’ History has shown that manufacturers who have consistently needed to dump old product have struggled. The challenge is for manufacturers to find that fine line between making large enough production runs to cover set up expenses and making too many to flood the market.

Just a few thoughts from the our side of things...

Pete

Hi Pete thanks for an excellent post. Maybe I need to think my responses out a little better in the futrue. I love all that has to do with toy soldiers and only want the best for the future of the hobby. If I have offended people I do apologize. Thanks Joel

 

[Mister Dave]

Hi Pete thanks for an excellent post. Maybe I need to think my responses out a little better in the futrue. I love all that has to do with toy soldiers and only want the best for the future of the hobby. If I have offended people I do apologize. Thanks Joel

No hard feelings, I assure you.

MD

 

[nmrocks]

So Pete,
would you say in general it is better to "Under produce" than chance over production?
Ray

 

[red devil]

Yes, I wonder if RD is still camped out at Brian's house

Yep still here - waiting patiently - heading back to the bar in a minute to see if my date (old Tanker ) has turned up yet.