Collectors Showcase eBay sales of DAK & ACW (5 Viewers)

[redhugh]

Surely end of line sales aren't going to collapse the market or their respective companies,
if someone hasn't bought an item when its first released it may be for a number of reasons,like ' nice piece but can't afford or justify not buying something else to get it' or the piece might be in 'it would be nice to have but I'm not dying to get it'. If the price is dropped sufficiently then it does become attractive to buy.

If there are limited runs then the collector will want to buy if they really want it in case the item sells out, however I don't see a collector if they really want something waiting until the last few are left on the chance it becomes cheaper.

Plenty of quality products are sold off in end of line sales , don't think it would be armageddon for the companies to clear their outdated inventory once in a while

Figarti did it with their 1/32 range and don't see them going down the tubes and I'm guessing for Collectors Showcase and Conte there's no such thing as bad publicity, I'm sure a few more dollars are going their way that otherwise wouldn't because of the sales and it served as a means of advertising the rest of their range.

Bring on the K&C 2 for 1 sale

 

[Peter Reuss]

So Pete,
would you say in general it is better to "Under produce" than chance over production?
Ray

I don't pretend to be a manufacturer...but imho under-producing is a 'safer' alternative. It allows all stock to be sold. It can, however, negatively impact profits if the demand for a single item greatly exceeds the number produced. Since much of the cost is in the development, the more that can be produced the cheaper per item cost there will be. In theory producing more is a good thing...unless they can't be sold and end up as excess inventory which ties up monies that could be used for new items.

Limited production also creates demand. While some will miss out, others will hurry to get the item while it's still available, thus pushing back other purchases that they would have made (and that they know they can get at a later date). Again, it's a tricky line to walk...underproduce by too many and the natives will howl!

The challenge is that in some instances the minimum the factory can produce may be more than the market can bear. A company that can make piece by piece to meet demand thus has some advantages over those who depend on others to make for them (at least in the case of small companies). Very few are in this situation (in terms of matte finish companies, are there others besides Figarti and Honour Bound who own their own production line?).

Just my thoughts. I went to college to major in economics, but took one econ class and ended up a psychology and statistics major. So I'm simply speaking from my own experience.

Pete

 

[The Collectors Showcase]

All,




Great discourse and I think Pete's remarks were right on the money. I appreciate all of the attention provided to our products and look forward to providing the industry the very best in future offerings.

If you aren't on our free quarterly color catalog mailing list please feel free to sign up at: www.thecollectorsshowcase.com




Happy Collecting To One And All!




Brian

 

[amhuff1]

I just thought I would mention that I got an 88 and crew today form CS on Ebay and must say I am very happy. I can not speak for others but CS got positive feedback from me and I will deal with them again. The package arrived in just a couple of days and the detail is great. I cannot afford a K&C 88 so this is the next best thing.

 

[APACHEJOL]

I am sure you are all tired of hearing from me by know, but I still have to tell you more. I am 39 years old an most of my childhood life has been all about the collection. I collected comic books, baseball and football cards toy soldiers and even RC cans for those of you who dont follow foot ball and baseball players images on a soda or pop can. I always searched for the treasure or the one card that no one else had. Thats what made collecting fun! I want rare and I want to search, hunt and even pay exra for the figure YOU dont have and I will never get but will always search for. And after all this I can tell you that I really really like the CS Civil war line. In fact I do believe I talked to Brian at the Chicago toy soldier show and he was a great guy I just hope he changes or should I say discovers a new way of doing bussiness. If I have amused or annoyed you catch me on the JJD thread as he has amazing new figures and just what I needed to finally after two years of reading the forum to actually have the guts to post. I will always love toy soldiers as it makes me feel like a kid an god knows I need that every once in a while. Thanks Joel Pogose

 

[OzDigger]

This has been a very intriguing thread that gets to the heart of the toy soldier industry.

On the one hand, I can understand that lower prices mean good deals for collectors and that from time to time dealers and/or manufacturers need to move old stock to make room for new stock.

There are dangers associated with such discounting. I remember when we first got into Britains (in the old RC2 days). Britains would consistently overproduce products. We could count on the fact that sets would eventually be put on clearance (often at ½ or more off the original price). Because of this, wise dealers did not stock up too much at regular prices. They simply waited for the sales to come and then added to their stock at good prices. Often the dealers passed those savings along. I remember talking to a customer who told me, “I really like this new set, but I’ll wait until it’s on clearance.” This became an unending cycle, with few people willing to buy items at full price. While in the short run this helped dealers move the product, in the long run it hindered Britains ability to come out with a quality new product. The whole brand went down the tubes until First Gear bought it and put an end to the discounting. Britains is now doing very nice work with products that don’t need to be discounted to ‘get rid of it.’

The dealer network is quite important to most toy soldier companies. While there are many small manufacturers who produce small enough numbers to rely on direct selling to customers (often making items one by one to order), the reality is that most toy soldier companies (especially ones who have production runs to sell) rely on the dealers to bring visibility to their products. The masses of collectors work through dealers. Many dealers are quite hesitant to promote a product when they feel that the manufacturer is working against them and taking their customers. We have not directly experienced this, but I know other dealers who have dropped brands because they saw that the manufacturer undercut them on price. A manufacturer who loses dealers is losing exposure in the marketplace, and let's face it, there aren't all that many retailers to begin with, especially ones with the capital needed to carry inventory.

There are times when a company’s past offerings are not the quality of the upcoming sets and the company works through dealers to get rid of old stock. The idea is that the devaluing of the old stock will be outweighed by the quality of the new stock. The hope is that collectors will not come to expect such discounting for newer product.

The challenge does exist for small companies with excesses of stock. As long as the stock sits, money is not free to invest in new, more exciting products. Hard decisions have to be made as to how to move out the old to make room for the new.

Because of all this, I don’t think this thread is necessarily an issue of ‘investor or collector.’ History has shown that manufacturers who have consistently needed to dump old product have struggled. The challenge is for manufacturers to find that fine line between making large enough production runs to cover set up expenses and making too many to flood the market.

Just a few thoughts from the our side of things...

Pete

This thread initially looked like a vehicle for members with past issues with CS, but has since provided a view through the dealers eyes as well as an overview of the hobby in general.

It is easy to only consider short term gains as a collector. Without considering what fire sales etc may mean in the long term for a company and its dealers, and the hobby in general.

As a keen collector I have never been a fan of K & C's marketing regime, but I have to admit that it has maintained prices as well as customer interest.

 

[Harrytheheid]

Yep still here - waiting patiently - heading back to the bar in a minute to see if my date (old Tanker ) has turned up yet.

Talking of blind dates Mike, I was messing around with my profile today and somehow UNIGNORED the members I'd added recently.
Suddenly there's BOF Zzzzzz popping up literally everywhere I looked. Couldn't bring myself to read yet more guff.....so back he went onto the list. Sheesh, lucky escape.....but it does go to show just how many completely worthless posts he/she makes.
Cheers
H

 

[OzDigger]

Scale update for anyone considering the current discounted DAK pieces on Ebay.

I checked the measurements of the Panzer I and Kettenrad models made by Collectors Showcase.

They worked out at 1/25 scale which makes them over large if you intend to display them with King & Country pieces.

Curiously the figure (one with each) on these vehicles are close to 1/30 which does make the soldiers look smaller or dare I say "punier" than some collectors may desire.

 

[Rutledge]

In just about every industry there are "channel conflicts". That is, where manufacterers can by-pass intermediaries, ie., dealers, wholesalers, jobbers, etc. It is certainly not unique to the Toy Soldier business.

Take the car companies. Many of their sales are through dealers, of course. But they also sell directly to rental car companies, large corporate buyers, the military, govt agencies, etc. In these and other cases billions of dollars can be involved.

Other examples: Nike and Ralph Lauren have their own retail stores; Starbucks sells its bagged coffee through grocery chains now, too; Dell sells computers direct and through retailers like Best Buy; Many mutual fund companies sell through brokerages and also direct to consumers; Just think of all the books available at super low prices on Amazon, that you can also buy at a Borders.

Goodness, you can even buy K&C directly from K&C! (admittedly, shipping costs are a bit of a deterrent).

So what CS may have chosen to do through Ebay is more the norm rather than the exception.

And no one can predict how future prices will be affected. Creating demand, or shelf space, for a new product line is hard. Often, entering through advantageous price offerings is the only way (ever heard of a discount airline?). But, once a product line has some presence, some customers and a viable market share, it can hold a firmer line on prices. This is a classic method for entering a developed market with entrenched competitors.

To suggest that this is an inevitably doomed strategy is simply not true. It certainly has risks. It can lead to a diminished market position, weakened intemediary support, poor financial performance, etc. But of course the biggest risk of all is no sales! No doubt when a well established dealer like TreeFrog considers using precious inventory capital to stock a new line, it likes to see evidence of product saleability. Thus the chicken and egg conundrum. One cant get sales until one shows sales! Ebay is then a great alternative. And offering great pricing to ebayers is probably a more viable method for driving sales than puny advertising efforts.

As potential customers, we should always welcome the entrance of new players. Doesnt mean we have to buy from them. If the new entrant wants to get our attention through aggressive pricing, that is a oft-used strategy. It isnt always successful, but it certainly keeps things interesting.

Anyone who buys toy soldiers as a serious investment should be aware that collectibles are usually not recommended as a core holding. As something for fun, sure, why not. But collectibles carry extreme liquidity risk, high transaction costs, require expensive physical storage, can be physically harmed rather easily, do not and will never pay a "yield", and have no "intrinsic value" beyond scarcity and assumed ongoing (rising?) collector demand. In short, buy it if you like it, but consider any "investment gain" a bonus.

 

[The Collectors Showcase]

Scale update for anyone considering the current discounted DAK pieces on Ebay.

I checked the measurements of the Panzer I and Kettenrad models made by Collectors Showcase.

They worked out at 1/25 scale which makes them over large if you intend to display them with King & Country pieces.



Curiously the figure (one with each) on these vehicles are close to 1/30 which does make the soldiers look smaller or dare I say "punier" than some collectors may desire.

Im most interested in the subject of scale just now. K&C has undoubtably created an excellent market for low run military collectors pieces at a scale quite different from large run manufacturers ( sadly our sets are only 300 pieces a far cry from 1000 or 1500, but we'll get there!. This always peaked my curiosity.



K&C products are without a doubt 1/27th to 1/28th in scale. This of course was really a stroke of genius at the outset. By developing a unique scale developed products would not be compatible with competing low priced injection mold model kits or finished products, ensuring a growing market for the entire range of pieces required for a diorama.



The only past issue has been that oddly enough K&C vehicles always seemed too small for the figures, really closer to 1/35th or 1/32nd scale. This of course is beginning to be remedied with the release of the Tunisian Tiger, an outstanding model by the way.



I personally like the 1/28th scale as it is larger and more robust indeed. I will be certain to focus our company on providing the current WWII toy soldier marketplace with highly detailed vehicles that fit perfectly in this scale. As we hope we can compliment current offerings in the marketplace.



The new MARKETGARDEN offerings provide the collector 3 complex mechanical subjects that haven't always been an easy task to bring to this scale:

The MARDER III required a robust interior, and is complete with fold down seats and discarded equiptment. The SdfKz222 has a full 20mm interior, with seat and gunners monoscope. The FLAK30 was the biggest challenge of all, the entire model was CAD built using flat plans as well a mulititude of photo reference. The appropriate 4 figure sets were added to sort of " hem " the whole story in and provide all of the sets needed to tell a complete story. Visit our site to check out the new sets.

I also want to thank all of our new customers of the last few days ( quite an uptick in orders really ) for their MARKETGARDEN set orders, its been really great to see the enthusiasm for our products. Im starting to think we'll have our first sell out soon, and thats exciting stuff!



Happy Collecting To One And All!



Brian

 

[OzDigger]

Scales are a popular "subject" on this forum, and that's for sure.

So to recap, can you confirm that the new Arnhem MARDER III, SdfKz222 and the FLAK30 will be in 1/30 scale not 1/25.

 

[The Collectors Showcase]

Scales are a popular "subject" on this forum, and that's for sure.


So to recap, can you confirm that the new Arnhem MARDER III, SdfKz222 and the FLAK30 will be in 1/30 scale not 1/25.

If customers are wanting our new MarketGarden releases to integrate seamlessly into existing toy soldier collections composed of K&C products, both figures and armor the answer is a resounding :YES!



With our new ACW I was sure to match the market leader in ACW: Britians. I didn't feel that K&C had made the necessary penetration into the ACW market to build on their 60mm scale. I guess you could say it was certainly " follow the leader " in each historic subject.



We'll be launching a third franchise or historical period this year as well and we'll be matching that manufacturer's scale that has had quite a bit of success with their products as well. So on it goes.



cheers!

Brian

 

[noli-poli]

Im most interested in the subject of scale just now. K&C has undoubtably created an excellent market for low run military collectors pieces at a scale quite different from large run manufacturers ( sadly our sets are only 300 pieces a far cry from 1000 or 1500, but we'll get there!. This always peaked my curiosity.



K&C products are without a doubt 1/27th to 1/28th in scale. This of course was really a stroke of genius at the outset. By developing a unique scale developed products would not be compatible with competing low priced injection mold model kits or finished products, ensuring a growing market for the entire range of pieces required for a diorama.



The only past issue has been that oddly enough K&C vehicles always seemed too small for the figures, really closer to 1/35th or 1/32nd scale. This of course is beginning to be remedied with the release of the Tunisian Tiger, an outstanding model by the way.



I personally like the 1/28th scale as it is larger and more robust indeed. I will be certain to focus our company on providing the current WWII toy soldier marketplace with highly detailed vehicles that fit perfectly in this scale. As we hope we can compliment current offerings in the marketplace.



The new MARKETGARDEN offerings provide the collector 3 complex mechanical subjects that haven't always been an easy task to bring to this scale:

The MARDER III required a robust interior, and is complete with fold down seats and discarded equiptment. The SdfKz222 has a full 20mm interior, with seat and gunners monoscope. The FLAK30 was the biggest challenge of all, the entire model was CAD built using flat plans as well a mulititude of photo reference. The appropriate 4 figure sets were added to sort of " hem " the whole story in and provide all of the sets needed to tell a complete story. Visit our site to check out the new sets.

I also want to thank all of our new customers of the last few days ( quite an uptick in orders really ) for their MARKETGARDEN set orders, its been really great to see the enthusiasm for our products. Im starting to think we'll have our first sell out soon, and thats exciting stuff!



Happy Collecting To One And All!



Brian

Is the gunner on the Flak gun glued permanently or detachable?
Thanks N-P

 

[The Breaker]

If the final product looks as good as the prototypes then they are sure to be a sold out. This of course being my untested business sense.

 

[The Collectors Showcase]

Is the gunner on the Flak gun glued permanently or detachable?
Thanks N-P

The piece is created so that the actual gun can be unpinned ( just like the real one ) from the trail and set on the ground with the trail as a side accessory. The gunner is fixed to the seat.

cheers!

Brian

 

[OzDigger]

If customers are wanting our new MarketGarden releases to integrate seamlessly into existing toy soldier collections composed of K&C products, both figures and armor the answer is a resounding :YES!

With our new ACW I was sure to match the market leader in ACW: Britians. I didn't feel that K&C had made the necessary penetration into the ACW market to build on their 60mm scale. I guess you could say it was certainly " follow the leader " in each historic subject.

We'll be launching a third franchise or historical period this year as well and we'll be matching that manufacturer's scale that has had quite a bit of success with their products as well. So on it goes.

cheers!
Brian

That's good news because there was some confusion amongst the members concerning the scale of the Afrika Korps vehicles & figures, most assuming that the vehicles/gun had moved from 1/25 to 1/30 to match the new figures.

Anyway, the 88 mm & crew and Panzer I that I bought do fit in ok with my K & C stuff, despite the scale difference, and it's really only the Kettenrad that stands out. However it does make up for that by being better detailed than the K & C Winter version, partly due to the larger size.

Clearly your recent eBay sales have generated interest as well as some controversy, including dealer involvement.

1) Do we have to order the new Arnhem range through your business, or can we use your existing dealers?

2) Are customers required to pay upfront for preorders, or is payment postponed until the items are ready for dispatch to customers.

 

[The Collectors Showcase]

That's good news because there was some confusion amongst the members concerning the scale of the Afrika Korps vehicles & figures, most assuming that the vehicles/gun had moved from 1/25 to 1/30 to match the new figures.

Anyway, the 88 mm & crew and Panzer I that I bought do fit in ok with my K & C stuff, despite the scale difference, and it's really only the Kettenrad that stands out. However it does make up for that by being better detailed than the K & C Winter version, partly due to the larger size.

Clearly your recent eBay sales have generated interest as well as some controversy, including dealer involvement.

1) Do we have to order the new Arnhem range through your business, or can we use your existing dealers?

2) Are customers required to pay upfront for preorders, or is payment postponed until the items are ready for dispatch to customers.

I encourage a purchase from either one of our dealers ( Michigan Toy Soldier, Sierra Toy Soldier, Hobby Bunker, George Gurrero, Marxman etc etc ) or through our Collectors Showcase store, the choice is entirely yours.


Orders are only charged when items are ready to ship.


cheers!


Brian

 

[Rob]

If customers are wanting our new MarketGarden releases to integrate seamlessly into existing toy soldier collections composed of K&C products, both figures and armor the answer is a resounding :YES!



With our new ACW I was sure to match the market leader in ACW: Britians. I didn't feel that K&C had made the necessary penetration into the ACW market to build on their 60mm scale. I guess you could say it was certainly " follow the leader " in each historic subject.



We'll be launching a third franchise or historical period this year as well and we'll be matching that manufacturer's scale that has had quite a bit of success with their products as well. So on it goes.



cheers!

Brian

This is very good news Brian thanks for posting.I really like the look of your 222 and your Arnhem figs look good too,will any of this be on show in London do you think?.

Rob

 

[damian]

We'll be launching a third franchise or historical period this year as well and we'll be matching that manufacturer's scale that has had quite a bit of success with their products as well. So on it goes.



cheers!

Brian[/QUOTE]
Zulu war anyone?
Am I warm

 

[Harrytheheid]

We'll be launching a third franchise or historical period this year as well and we'll be matching that manufacturer's scale that has had quite a bit of success with their products as well. So on it goes.



cheers!

Brian

Zulu war anyone?
Am I warm[/QUOTE]

Its The Trojan War in 1/30 scale Damian.
Remember - you read it here first.