COVID the 3rd (22 Viewers)

[nysoldiers]

Well good or bad ALL administration have their ups and down. Believe you me when I tell you I am the harshest critic of "my guy" whoever that may be and I would love to have a one on one with Obamanos and Bush 43 on how they blew it when it came to immigration when they had it ALL when they started their presidencies.

Prostate cancer is...well all cancers are no joke, but the one to the minerals is something I cannot even imagine dealing with. I salute you for your perseverance, your strength and am grateful to be speaking with you today. Likewise, your a survivor which I am not and I respect you for that. NY it is okay to and your right to be satisfied with the last administration. I on the other hand was not and I am not just talking about the man Im talking about all the enablers who said "yes sir on the her" and left their moral compass on the bathroom floor at home. Shame on them all and that is all I got to say about that because the argument is minutiae at this point and we need to focus on the here and now. The last administration is OLD NEWS and fodder for historians.

Yes, the health crisis of heart disease, diabetes, etc are known facts...KNOWN facts of life and we as a society deal with them and make choices to curb the ones we can. Cancer is the silent killer and can pick anyone as you know. I hate him-cancer that is-and WISH he could be eradicated, but like AIDS, cancer is an endemic. This virus and future ones are preventable and each and every one should be a training ground to prepare for the next one and this one PROVED we as a nation and world were wholly unprepared for what has occurred and we are still learning. HOWEVER COMMA, training NEVER ENDS and like in war you PREPARE FOR WAR TO MAKE PEACE. Protocols, battle plans, logistics, resources, human capital and training the best in our Medical corps is and must ALWAYS be at the forefront. COMPLACENCY KILLS.

We, the US OF A have all the resources and power to do this and we failed miserably and are now cleaning up the FUBAR on this one. We should have been the beacon, the example, the city on the hill to prove to the world we can sort out our differences here in the US and then reach out to our brothers and sisters in the world, who ARE NOT HEAVY and then help them too. NO, it was a circus, side show clown show and if your man would have embraced this as his seminal moment to show that he is the real deal and prove leadership he would have been Prez for three terms. Instead it was his petulant moment and he blew it. The man is bliss to real power and he was given a crisis of epic proportions that could have CEMENTED his place in history as "the guy" who LEAD US OUT of the valley of the shadow of death and if he would have done that even I, yes ME would have saluted him. Saluted I say, not bowed or kowtowed.

Where does this leave us? Well, if the current honcho (s) don't sort out this 5K plus migrants coming out of McCallen, TX everyday we will all inevdiabtely suffer in one shape, form or another. We need a new face other than Fauci. I like the guy, but the time has come for you to step aside and give us another voice to listen too. People genuinely hate this guy and its a shame. If I was in the decision maker room, I would seek out another face to send the message. He has run his course and its time to pass the torch to the next generation of scientist. It is simple politics and a fact of the game. And we have to stopped being everything to everybody...PERIOD.

Civil War? Maybe a civil conflict but not with cannons and ****. This will be all sorted out on line because EVERY ONE and dummies too have access to a platform. You just gotta realize who's a waste of your hearing and who is not. ALEXANDER HAMILTON wrote about Factions endlessly and he was right as here we are now. People love factions, cults and whatever, but when they realize they don't pay the bills or can send you to the slammer for 10 to 20 years, people find Jesus all of sudden and there are about 500 of them waiting for their court date right now after Jan 6th. There same ARROGANT live streaming and endless posting on the very outlet they thought was supposed be there "right" put them on international blast and "just like that" they got all the fame and notoriety they ever wanted. I hope it was worth it and finally realize they were STOOOPID.

In the end can we all just soldier up? No, cause it too hard.

John from Texas

John,
Appreciate your input....I certainly have no love for the past administration but can't discuss that here. As far as the immigrant situation it is very complex and problematic. Again we have to attack it at its source which are the countries that can't control the violence and fix their economies. Maybe not our problem but it sickens me to see any human being suffer. I was not aware that we are shipping off unvaccinated immigrants around the country. This is terrible if true and why can't we at least vaccinate all of them? We have plenty of vaccine available. Why can't we help Mexico stop these migrations at their border? Is it time to build refugee camps, which are not ideal but maybe a stop gap.
Right now I am focused on getting everyone I know vaccinated. The holdouts I know have "religious grounds" for their anti-vac attitudes, you know "thoughts and prayers" over science. Prayers can soothe the soul but don't prevent diseases and death.
I am hoping that with FDA approval many more will get vaccinated.
Stay well and be careful in Florida, my sister and her husband just canceled their trip to Florida.

 

[hotel3alpha]

John,
Appreciate your input....I certainly have no love for the past administration but can't discuss that here. As far as the immigrant situation it is very complex and problematic. Again we have to attack it at its source which are the countries that can't control the violence and fix their economies. Maybe not our problem but it sickens me to see any human being suffer. I was not aware that we are shipping off unvaccinated immigrants around the country. This is terrible if true and why can't we at least vaccinate all of them? We have plenty of vaccine available. Why can't we help Mexico stop these migrations at their border? Is it time to build refugee camps, which are not ideal but maybe a stop gap.
Right now I am focused on getting everyone I know vaccinated. The holdouts I know have "religious grounds" for their anti-vac attitudes, you know "thoughts and prayers" over science. Prayers can soothe the soul but don't prevent diseases and death.
I am hoping that with FDA approval many more will get vaccinated.
Stay well and be careful in Florida, my sister and her husband just canceled their trip to Florida.

NY-I am not going to Miami the boss lady and son are. I can't since I had to start over on recovery on the right side of the throat. Boo who. I was really looking forward to some cuban coffee, sangwiches and the PR dishes. Right now food actually revolts me and this coming from the guy who loves to eat. Three weeks ago I was 255. I weighed in this morning at 232 and still can only eat a half bowl of ramen noodles a day. I am terrified to eat knowing that if my stitch fails (it won't) but if it gets agitated and could bleed out or have to go get cauterized again and that thought is too traumatic to even conceive. Nope, water, ice and cold noodles for this kid for at least another week or so. I probably lose another 10 pounds and haven't weight that since the military.

Yes, I loathe the suffering of the migrants. Mexico won't help, pay or deter migrants as they are to some a way station and to others good business and its a booming. We need drastic, strong measures and need them now. WE are bleeding in more ways than one on the border.

We already have camps on the border and they are FULL and not really "camps" more like shelters with adequate food, access to hygiene and shelter AND the taxpayer funds it. It is just bad governmental business, but I get that it is a policy issue that have been passed from administration to administration and now here we are with the bonus of a pandemic. We cannot sustain this and the time for diplomacy is over and this needs to turn into a "Operation". However, we have to be careful that is not viewed as the infamous "Operation Wetback" that was swept under the history rug during the Eisenshower administration which was the SOLUTION to getting the Braceros OUT of the US. We welcomed them during WWII, but when the GIs returned the old "they are taking our jobs" drums came out and Eisenhauser actually made it a military operation with a Civilian head to get the Mexicans out. It was such an arrogant and raced based Operation that Mexican-Americans and even Native Americans were "rounded up" just cause and sent back. After a couple of lawsuits and some major bad press the program ended. There is only one book on the subject which was written by a Phd candidate in the late 1970's. I bought his thesis and have spoken to him via email about OWB and actually have plans to meet with him in the future.

Okay, the Oxy is taking its toll on me and I am signing off.

John from Texas

 

[mikemiller1955]

Three weeks ago I was 255. I weighed in this morning at 232 and still can only eat a half bowl of ramen noodles a day. I am terrified to eat knowing that if my stitch fails (it won't) but if it gets agitated and could bleed out or have to go get cauterized again and that thought is too traumatic to even conceive. Nope, water, ice and cold noodles for this kid for at least another week or so. I probably lose another 10 pounds and haven't weight that since the military.
John from Texas

John...nobody is gonna call you "husky" again...lol...^&grin

 

[Go for Broke]

John...nobody is gonna call you "husky" again...lol...^&grin

I'll be the judge of that.

 

[The Military Workshop]

Just for information sake as I have studied journalism for over 50 years and read the editorials from over 20 different newspapers each week.....from the most liberal to most conservative. The American Spectator is a far right, conservative news paper known for their conspiracy theories against the liberal press and Democrat party.
No doubt The NY Times editorial position is more liberal as the Wall Street Journal and NY Post are more conservative......just know the leanings of each publication or other news outlets when you consider their content. Unfortunately most media and news outlets have their biases that both color and corrupt the real news.
The story could be true but it requires more research to verify.

I noted your comment about studied journalism and read 20 different editorials. Just for "information sake" I was a police officer for 20 years, with a particular interest and background in intelligence and research. Even been trained by FBI and DEA. From when I was a teenager I have had a great interest in news and read multiple Australian newspapers and articles. I read a lot of information about USA matters. As you are no doubt aware I watch some Tucker Carlson and can safely be considered a "conservative" (fit the profile with a father who was Army and myself ex cop). I get information / commentary from a huge variety of sources and these include some who would not be considered Conservative (ie. Russell Brand, Tim Pool, Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Brendon O'Neil). However I am the sort who will often look for the original source if I see something interesting. An example was after watching 13 Hrs in Benghazi I spent 4 hours going through the Senate and House hearings about it. My main interest was trying to understand why the delay in getting support.

I note you say American Spectator is far right and conservative and noted for conspiracy theories against the liberal press and Democrats. That is pretty much the classic line of somebody wanting to shut down alternative opinion. As others have pointed out the press is hopelessly split and partisan. Even the lab theory became political when it is one of the biggest stories of our lifetime and beyond politics. I prefer facts rather than who can organise the best cover up and shut down most opposing views.


In view of you reading 20 different editorials a week I was shocked at your comments. You started a post by saying "Just a few fact checks....."and then say "We don't have "open borders" and later "I was not aware that we are shipping off unvaccinated immigrants around the country. This is terrible if true". Clearly you dont have much idea what is going on at the Texas border. I mean why would you when the publications you are reading dont seem to cover it. No need to guess why they are not mentioning it. Try looking at what is happening in McAllen Texas where Federal Border Patrol just bus in illegals and drop them in the city of under 150,000. Full buses almost every half hour. Just in the last week their Mayor has said they are getting 1800 illegals a week and in the last week 1700 tested positive to Covid. Would NY city stand for such action by the Federal Govt ?. Note how John said one of the reasons his family have to fly first class is because of unvaccinated illegals travelling on same plane (to FL). I would be interested to know which states receive the most in this manner. Illegal arrivals this year are breaking all records but according you no open borders. 210,000 in July which is a 20 year high. Many describe what is happening there as a super spreader event.


By your definition I am also far right. Two of my favourite "conspiracy theories" got a lot of attention in the last year. One was the nature v lab theory. Both "conspiracies" were allegedly disproved by experts backing up the false narrative. In the first there were the over 20 experts who wrote their letter to Lancet, at the request of Peter Dazack, to say virus was from nature not a lab. Dazack was the guy who funded the lab and chosen to join the WHO team to investigate the source of the virus. Note he was initially not even one of those submitted to be on the team. Who picked him ? A simple Google search reveals even this year the NYT has published multiple articles by him. Meanwhile another publication , the NY Post, had an article about him on 4 AUG. It is titled "We must hear from this man" (ie. Dazack). Over 600,000 people have died in the USA alone which is far more than American losses in WW2 and after. Dazack is the one who funded the lab, tried to cover it up and knows the most. For over a year the mainstream media was happy to rely upon the letter he organised as the truth. This despite the obvious conflicts of interest by many who signed the letter. It took mainly independent online researchers to dig out the truth. Ironically one of those was the ex science writer for NYT. Yet your side of Congress, according to NY Post (Aussie journalist), is not interested to hear from Dazack. Why no interest ? Surely that is nothing to do with which newspaper or source the information comes from or even which side of politics might be on. Dont get me started on the guy providing Dazack with the funding to the tune of millions in Government grants who was also in on the cover up. Lets not forget you would be shut down if you even mentioned the lab theory despite many scientists knowing from the start it was more likely. They were just too afraid to speak up.



The other "conspiracy" involved a laptop. Remember the 50 top former intelligence chiefs who said it was a Russian misinformation operation ? Lancet letter "modus operandi" all over again. Their version became the truth. NY Post covered that and social media restricted the info being spread. There is an 87 page Senate report covering some of the unusual financial transactions related to the laptop owner. We all know it would have been front page of NYT if it involved the son of a certain former NY resident who now lives in FL. It is not just "fake news" that is a problem it is what is often not covered that is also biased. Greenwald is particularly good on this subject.


For those interested Australian journalists have some interesting books coming out soon on both "conspiracies" I mentioned. Miranda Divine covers the laptop and Sharri Markson the lab story. You can see multiple interviews with them online. Make up your own mind.


I could go on but you get the drift.



John of Texas, hope you recover soon. I note you have a particular interest in Jan 6. Dont worry the FBI and DC Justice system will make sure they dont get a fair trial. Especially the old ladies carrying the US flag who walked in after Capitol Police opened some entrances for them (plenty of footage on this). Then there is the "armed insurrectionist" dressed as George Washington and carrying the US flag. Meanwhile Jake Sullivan got paid by news outlets for his video coverage and got bail. If you want to follow their cases I recommend articles by Julie Kelly at American Greatness. Another case I find very interesting is the MI Governor kidnap case where FBI or their undercover agents seemed to have played an interesting role and going to be a great trial to follow. Naturally the lead agent in that case was promoted to the office in DC.

 

[Panzer ace]

NY,

Well since I got my *** handed to me via the tonsillectomy I cannot travel with the wife to Miami for Son #1 college transition. I was supposed be in the clear by now, but the double whammy I got on Sunday basically put me at day zero all over again. Anyway, the plan has come for her and my son to fly to Miami, have the car shipped and since this "hurry up and wait" scenario she has to find him a place (no on campus housing there is a waitlist) furnish it and then split back to Texas to get Daughter #2 sorted out at College Station. Fortunately, she already has a place sorted out with some former soccer teammates who already there...nice joint too.

Back to my response. They are flying first class and she is flying first class back. "Oooo you say...bunch a high rollers coming from Texas to Miami" NO, 50 to 300 undocumented immigrants are flying out of SAT EVERYDAY THAT ARE NOT VACCINATED. So, either you sit in coach SURROUNDED BY POSSIBLE virus shedders or you upgrade to 1st where socially and economically the risk is lower that your 1st class passenger next to you is vaccinated. And that is exactly what it is...PAYING/UPGRADING NOT OUT OF CONVENIENCE OR STATUS, but because you can separate ourselves against a possible risk of infection from a migrant...who...say 3 days ago was in a cattle truck with folks from all of the Latin America if not other parts of the world where access to good medicine/vaccination is a premium. And I don't mean that factiously, I mean it as reality.

One of business partners from Mexico City was here with his ENTIRE family this past Monday (when I was doped up and in hell) to get vaccinated. Because he's got it like that, but his country doesn't. He flew in on Sunday, vaccinated on Monday and flew out Tuesday Morning...all eight of them including grandma AND GRATEFUL!

So, back to the story at hand. We will be flying first class to visit the son #1 and flying son#1 back to SAT to and fro from San Antonio in order to keep him away from possible infection even though he is vaccinated. Oh and by the way this is the pre-med boy who a Germ a phob, so he is relived and grateful too.

The point I am trying to make in this BULL **** attitude is SHUT THE BORDER DOWN PERIOD. For the LOVE OF GOD, DO IT! WE cannot fight this virus battle on two fronts and for once this would be a SOLUTION FOR OUR COUNTRY. A SOLUTION!!!! We cannot be everything to everyone especially since our people are dying...dumb or not. This is NOT a nationalistic view, hardcore, ultra-whatever, anti-whatever, it is SOLUTION. WE NEED A MORATORIUM PERIOD END OF STORY.

We as a country MUST BE ALLOWED TO breathe, TAKE A TIME OUT, go back to the huddle, put our differences aside and say to our future citizens- WAIT, HOLD UP, DONT' WORRY, YOU JUST NEED to have PATIENCE. While saying all this I refuse to easily slip into the darkness of xenophobia...NO...this is a PRATICAL SOLUTION THAT HONESTLY I thought the previous administration would gladly enjoy enacting. But, they didn't which in my opinion was a failure to our National Health and Security. I mean c'mon man? This solution is low hanging fruit and in the mean time our defenders in the Dept of Homeland Security are getting sick left and right, so much so, that our Texas State Troopers are augmenting them and spending six week tours on the Tex/Mex borders. Which costs ALOT of money and the potential of officers losing their lives.

IT IS BEYOND ESTUPIDO.

John from TExaS
FIRST CLASS FLYING NOT BY CHOICE AND NO I DON'T GOT IT LIKE THAT.

John:

Like other forum members I too share great hope for your continued recovery.

On another note, please do not insinuate that first class travelers are all some sort of elitist group of high rollers.

Recently, I have been lucky enough to fly “in the front of the jet” via upgrades/mileage that I have earned by flying for work.

Work that has kept me away from my family and important anniversaries, birthdays etc.

While sitting in a big, comfortable seat in no way makes up for missing those things, I “earned” them by missing out on important life events that no one should ever take for granted.

-Jason

 

[damian]

I noted your comment about studied journalism and read 20 different editorials. Just for "information sake" I was a police officer for 20 years, with a particular interest and background in intelligence and research. Even been trained by FBI and DEA. From when I was a teenager I have had a great interest in news and read multiple Australian newspapers and articles. I read a lot of information about USA matters. As you are no doubt aware I watch some Tucker Carlson and can safely be considered a "conservative" (fit the profile with a father who was Army and myself ex cop). I get information / commentary from a huge variety of sources and these include some who would not be considered Conservative (ie. Russell Brand, Tim Pool, Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Brendon O'Neil). However I am the sort who will often look for the original source if I see something interesting. An example was after watching 13 Hrs in Benghazi I spent 4 hours going through the Senate and House hearings about it. My main interest was trying to understand why the delay in getting support.

I note you say American Spectator is far right and conservative and noted for conspiracy theories against the liberal press and Democrats. That is pretty much the classic line of somebody wanting to shut down alternative opinion. As others have pointed out the press is hopelessly split and partisan. Even the lab theory became political when it is one of the biggest stories of our lifetime and beyond politics. I prefer facts rather than who can organise the best cover up and shut down most opposing views.


In view of you reading 20 different editorials a week I was shocked at your comments. You started a post by saying "Just a few fact checks....."and then say "We don't have "open borders" and later "I was not aware that we are shipping off unvaccinated immigrants around the country. This is terrible if true". Clearly you dont have much idea what is going on at the Texas border. I mean why would you when the publications you are reading dont seem to cover it. No need to guess why they are not mentioning it. Try looking at what is happening in McAllen Texas where Federal Border Patrol just bus in illegals and drop them in the city of under 150,000. Full buses almost every half hour. Just in the last week their Mayor has said they are getting 1800 illegals a week and in the last week 1700 tested positive to Covid. Would NY city stand for such action by the Federal Govt ?. Note how John said one of the reasons his family have to fly first class is because of unvaccinated illegals travelling on same plane (to FL). I would be interested to know which states receive the most in this manner. Illegal arrivals this year are breaking all records but according you no open borders. 210,000 in July which is a 20 year high. Many describe what is happening there as a super spreader event.




By your definition I am also far right. Two of my favourite "conspiracy theories" got a lot of attention in the last year. One was the nature v lab theory. Both "conspiracies" were allegedly disproved by experts backing up the false narrative. In the first there were the over 20 experts who wrote their letter to Lancet, at the request of Peter Dazack, to say virus was from nature not a lab. Dazack was the guy who funded the lab and chosen to join the WHO team to investigate the source of the virus. Note he was initially not even one of those submitted to be on the team. Who picked him ? A simple Google search reveals even this year the NYT has published multiple articles by him. Meanwhile another publication , the NY Post, had an article about him on 4 AUG. It is titled "We must hear from this man" (ie. Dazack). Over 600,000 people have died in the USA alone which is far more than American losses in WW2 and after. Dazack is the one who funded the lab, tried to cover it up and knows the most. For over a year the mainstream media was happy to rely upon the letter he organised as the truth. This despite the obvious conflicts of interest by many who signed the letter. It took mainly independent online researchers to dig out the truth. Ironically one of those was the ex science writer for NYT. Yet your side of Congress, according to NY Post (Aussie journalist), is not interested to hear from Dazack. Why no interest ? Surely that is nothing to do with which newspaper or source the information comes from or even which side of politics might be on. Dont get me started on the guy providing Dazack with the funding to the tune of millions in Government grants who was also in on the cover up. Lets not forget you would be shut down if you even mentioned the lab theory despite many scientists knowing from the start it was more likely. They were just too afraid to speak up.



The other "conspiracy" involved a laptop. Remember the 50 top former intelligence chiefs who said it was a Russian misinformation operation ? Lancet letter "modus operandi" all over again. Their version became the truth. NY Post covered that and social media restricted the info being spread. There is an 87 page Senate report covering some of the unusual financial transactions related to the laptop owner. We all know it would have been front page of NYT if it involved the son of a certain former NY resident who now lives in FL. It is not just "fake news" that is a problem it is what is often not covered that is also biased. Greenwald is particularly good on this subject.


For those interested Australian journalists have some interesting books coming out soon on both "conspiracies" I mentioned. Miranda Divine covers the laptop and Sharri Markson the lab story. You can see multiple interviews with them online. Make up your own mind.


I could go on but you get the drift.



John of Texas, hope you recover soon. I note you have a particular interest in Jan 6. Dont worry the FBI and DC Justice system will make sure they dont get a fair trial. Especially the old ladies carrying the US flag who walked in after Capitol Police opened some entrances for them (plenty of footage on this). Then there is the "armed insurrectionist" dressed as George Washington and carrying the US flag. Meanwhile Jake Sullivan got paid by news outlets for his video coverage and got bail. If you want to follow their cases I recommend articles by Julie Kelly at American Greatness. Another case I find very interesting is the MI Governor kidnap case where FBI or their undercover agents seemed to have played an interesting role and going to be a great trial to follow. Naturally the lead agent in that case was promoted to the office in DC.

I just cannot for the life of me see how this virus could have somehow just evolved naturally

 

[The Military Workshop]

I just cannot for the life of me see how this virus could have somehow just evolved naturally

The irony is the "gain of function" experiments were allegedly done to protect us from a pandemic. Sharri Markson in Australia (The Australian newspaper and Sky News) was I believe the first to report on Fauci's comments from 2012 where he mentioned the dangers of such experiments.

So dangerous that it was better to outsource to Wuhan. In past few days news came out about the fairly recently built lab needing to have its air conditioning re-done. Tender Cost $600 million ! This was in about Oct 2019 which co-incided with the Wuhan lab removing most of the information from its web site. Those two points are an indicator of early problems.

But let's blame the bats in the market etc.

 

[OzDigger]

Scientific article about the origins of SAR Cov-2: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01529-3a

How Reliable and Unbiased is the American Spectator:
https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings

https://www.adfontesmedia.com/american-spectator-bias-and-reliability/

 

[hotel3alpha]

John:

Like other forum members I too share great hope for your continued recovery.

On another note, please do not insinuate that first class travelers are all some sort of elitist group of high rollers.

Recently, I have been lucky enough to fly “in the front of the jet” via upgrades/mileage that I have earned by flying for work.

Work that has kept me away from my family and important anniversaries, birthdays etc.

While sitting in a big, comfortable seat in no way makes up for missing those things, I “earned” them by missing out on important life events that no one should ever take for granted.

-Jason

Jason, I only slag myself and make fun of myself when flying first class. We too have earned the points to fly first class and did so when we went to Hawaii to and from. I am not a class warfare type of guy, just a kid who is still in awe of doing "rich people" things as my parents and familia would say. Never in a million years did I ever think I would even have credit card let alone a AMEX Platinum card. Hell even my kids have Platinum cards.

No man, if I am sitting in First class I am definately not an elite...high rolling yes, elite no. Brother, I used to think flying Space A in the military was high rolling. Yeah, I can be a simpleton sometimes on what is basically normal. Nope, you won't get any shade from me if you got it like that.

Remember, Im griping about flying first class because of the risk of NOT getting exposed on flights with possible immigrants who are not vaccinated. Real world problems y'know and I'd rather be in the back of the plane sneaking Crown Royal shots out of sight of the stewards and if you had your druthers I know you'd be back there with me too raising hell! Anyway, I can't fly now due to the throat surgery, but maybe in a couple of weeks.

John from Texas

 

[The Military Workshop]

Scientific article about the origins of SAR Cov-2: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01529-3a

How Reliable and Unbiased is the American Spectator:
https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings

https://www.adfontesmedia.com/american-spectator-bias-and-reliability/

Oz,Thanks for the links.


I liked the first bias link as quite useful. I see American Spectator is as far right as CNN and NY Times Opinion is left.


I did read the article. Whilst I dont pretend to understand the science I did note two things of interest. Instantly recognised this guy "Kristian Andersen, a virologist at Scripps Research in La Jolla, California, determined that this was “improbable” for a few reasons, including a lack of signatures of genetic manipulation".


As all who have followed the story know he gained recognition due to the contents of the Fauci emails. Not really that familiar with Buzzfeed (far left on your bias link) but good on them for getting the Fauci emails. It was him who emailed Fauci late on 31 Jan 2020 to say the following (note he is talking about himself and three others) :


[O]ne has to look really closely at all the sequences to see that some of the features (potentially) look engineered . . . Eddie [Holmes], Bob [Garry], Mike [Ferguson] and myself all find the genome inconsistent with evolutionary theory.


He then backflipped a few days later and then soon after wrote an article for Nature. For a more detailed analysis of what happened in those days see this article at the Federalist (far right) by Congressman Jim Jordan (R).
Dr. Fauci's Emails Tell The Story Of Panic, Lies, And A Possible Cover-Up (thefederalist.com)


Jim Jordan is a Republican. I have seen him in action cross examining witnesses and again I am biased but can well understand the other side not wanting him involved in any hearing as he is very good at his job. It should be noted that Fauci approves funding for Andersens works. I recall his lab got a $5m grant in Nov 2020 and make of that what you will. Vincent Munster also quoted in the article is an employee under Fauci.


Two of the most significant articles about the background of virus are below. Have previously posted this on 5 June.
Vanity Fair article by Katherine Eban. It goes into great detail about the origins of the virus and various connections. Mentions a US Government meeting in Dec 20 where some attendees advised others best not to look too closely due to the "gain of function" funding by USA. A long article but highly recommended. If not read it the article in The Bulletin online by former NY Times science writer Nicholas Wade also interesting. Going the rounds here in Oz as one of the best articles on the virus so far.


Origin of Covid — Following the Clues | by Nicholas Wade | Medium



Wade is a former NY T science writer who has also written for the magazine, Nature, you linked to.


The Lab-Leak Theory: Inside the Fight to Uncover COVID-19’s Origins | Vanity Fair



It was after these two articles that suddenly was ok to mention the lab theory.


Just come back from a long walk and typed "Fauci emails" into Youtube to see what came up. First was a clip featuring Joe Rogans thoughts on emails and gain of function etc. The 2nd was this below featuring Sharri Markson of Sky News. Mentions 2012 report where Fauci says "benefits of research are worth risk of pandemic". She also mentions she has spoken on the record, for her book, to many who worked in National Security who say Fauci never mentioned gain of function. They did not even know Fauci had got the gain of function research going again despite it being banned under Obama. Watching Senator Rand Paul (a Dr) asking Fauci about "gain of function" is also interesting. In questioning by Senator Kennedy (R) Fauci basically said he trusted the Chinese scientists to give him all the information as a result of his US funded grants.
(58) 'Gain-of-Function Godfather': Bombshell emails link Dr Fauci to Wuhan lab leak theory - YouTube


For light relief I highly recommend, via Youtube, the 8 minutes by Jon Stewart on the Stephen Colbert show. He is most definitely of the left but nails it in a funny way.

[FONT=&quot]Two of the names mentioned in email by Andersen :
[/FONT]As a leading virologist, Holmes co-authored the publication of the genome sequence of SARS-CoV-2[SUP][18][/SUP][SUP][19][/SUP] and the early descriptions of the disease, working with Zhang Yongzhen from Fudan University to share the first sequencing data from the virus.[SUP][20][/SUP] Holmes has figured prominently in commentary surrounding its origins. In March 2020, he co-authored a paper titled The proximal origins of SARS-CoV-2, published in Nature Medicine,[SUP][21][/SUP] which concluded that the virus sequence did not appear to be engineered. (note he is an Aussie and has issued a statement about origin of virus Statement from Professor Edward Holmes on the SARS-CoV-2 virus - The University of Sydney . Included for balance but note he works in China.
[FONT=&quot]
A leading expert in virology, Bob Garry is part of a team decoding the genome of the coronavirus to determine its origins and how it possibly evolved from bats and pangolins. Garry leads Tulane’s Center of Excellence in the Global Virus Network, an organization of leading medical virologists from 25 countries dedicated to fighting pandemic viral threats through collaborative research, training and advocacy.[/FONT]


Again thanks for your links.


Brett

 

[hotel3alpha]

All,

231 lbs today, but did get 2.5 of straight sleep last night. That would be an average total of two hours every night for the last 10 days. Sleep deprivation...ugh! The weird thing last night is I woke up in the boudoir, got some cold water and then re-awoke up in the back patio furniture outside, like an hour later. I don't remember going outside...whatever man...

...anyway Good Day to you my friends...mask up...send a positive word to a doubter and eat a juicy burger for me.

Oh and I forgot to tell y'all when I was in the recovery ward for the second time all I wanted was an ice coffee and mean black coffee with some ice cubes in it. Nothing fancy. Well the nurse said I was not allowed to drink anything after the 3rd surgery. I lost it and went into the bathroom and smashed the trashcan and tried to rip the paper towel holder off the wall. I was screaming "I WANT ICE COFFEE" over and over. Now, remember I was on dope, confused and in pain-incarnate. Anyway, after my melee I looked at the trash can and it slowing went back into shape. Why? Cause the VA uses Rubbermaid products and watching the trash can regrow to its original form it made a small "pop" sound and vwhalla it was good as new. I just stared at, fell to my knees and cried. Man that was a low point, especially when you beat by a trashcan. Man what a trip and when I came out of the bathroom those poor Filipina nurses were terrified of me. One said, "are you okay sir" and I whispered "I'm fine thank you ma'am" and smiled as if nothing happened.

Good gawd I'm beginning to remember things...

John from Texas

 

[damian]

The irony is the "gain of function" experiments were allegedly done to protect us from a pandemic. Sharri Markson in Australia (The Australian newspaper and Sky News) was I believe the first to report on Fauci's comments from 2012 where he mentioned the dangers of such experiments.

So dangerous that it was better to outsource to Wuhan. In past few days news came out about the fairly recently built lab needing to have its air conditioning re-done. Tender Cost $600 million ! This was in about Oct 2019 which co-incided with the Wuhan lab removing most of the information from its web site. Those two points are an indicator of early problems.

But let's blame the bats in the market etc.

But let's blame the bats in the market etc.

That just sounds so unlikely

 

[damian]

The irony of the Lancet letter, is that for any other researcher who submits an article there they have to declare any conflict of interest no matter how remote or tangential.
If you even had a drug rep sponsored dinner or got a free pen from the company then you must declare that.
Seems this was not applied to the authors of the letter.
A good example of Eminence based medicine trumping evidence based.
Lots of unanswered questions about this virus.
911 and COVID two events form the early 21 st Century have certainly changed the world.

 

[hotel3alpha]

Hi Damien,

I never bought the bat virus thing. When this first came out there was a lot of info about the Wuhan lab what they do and who with internationally, including the USA. Anyway, when China kicked out the international pool of journalists out of the country in I think April, that was it. No more info other than the state media apparatus.

But lets not fool ourselves here, they're "wet markets" indeed produce some nasty viruses.

And remember the Chinese doctor who kinda blew the whistle at the beginning? Yeah, he's dead.

Im not as in tune with this as y'all are but from the beginning this has been the "John from Texas Theory" which by the way means nothing. Here it goes:

The Hong Kong Riots were daily international news and the HK-ers were winning the protest and I mean that on the ground and in the eyes of international ideal of democracy for HK. In short order, HK were gaining international support and China was looking like the bully (they are) every passing minute. I was in shock to see the unrest and the magnitude of the riots, I think with in a couple of weeks HK would have brought China to its knees and would have had the support of international community including me-John from Texas.

Then the Wuhan Virus came out and cleared the streets permanently and was probably used as a biological agent to debilitate the rioters/citizens. It worked.

Then along the way an "oops" happened when that one Doc came home with it and infected his family and in short order the entire City of Wuhan.

During this short period there was no travel bans. I know this because I was in Las Vegas during the Chinese New Years and every Asian was masked up. Thats when I said "uh-oh something aint right" Fortunately the wife called this one and had me masked up on the flights to and from Vegas and yes we got the crooked eye looks from fellow travelers. The probability that the Virus came to the States by a normal Joe-blow Chinese citizen or ON PURPOSE is highly possible.

I am not isolating this to the US. This happened EVERYWHERE in the world where Asian folks were traveling during the Holiday and taking the virus with them. Coupled with foreigners traveling to China for business or personal.
Then BOOM-pandemic.

Like I said by April the international media was kicked out and the vicious videos of Chinese police rounding up infected people ceased to exist online.

So for me-The Virus was indeed man made, used against the rioters in HK, an "oops" happened and China has been in damage control ever sense and claiming victory for any and everything that is positive.

Their government is run by a bunch of wankers, scalawags who won't take responsibility or at the minimum participate in a SOLUTION. They have zero credibility and...

...still can't land a jet on an aircraft carrier.

Pffft.

John from Texas

 

[Desertkiwi]

But let's blame the bats in the market etc.

That just sounds so unlikely

....the whole things a bit batty if you ask me.

 

[OzDigger]

Oz,Thanks for the links.


I liked the first bias link as quite useful. I see American Spectator is as far right as CNN and NY Times Opinion is left.


I did read the article. Whilst I dont pretend to understand the science I did note two things of interest. Instantly recognised this guy "Kristian Andersen, a virologist at Scripps Research in La Jolla, California, determined that this was “improbable” for a few reasons, including a lack of signatures of genetic manipulation".


As all who have followed the story know he gained recognition due to the contents of the Fauci emails. Not really that familiar with Buzzfeed (far left on your bias link) but good on them for getting the Fauci emails. It was him who emailed Fauci late on 31 Jan 2020 to say the following (note he is talking about himself and three others) :


[O]ne has to look really closely at all the sequences to see that some of the features (potentially) look engineered . . . Eddie [Holmes], Bob [Garry], Mike [Ferguson] and myself all find the genome inconsistent with evolutionary theory.


He then backflipped a few days later and then soon after wrote an article for Nature. For a more detailed analysis of what happened in those days see this article at the Federalist (far right) by Congressman Jim Jordan (R).
Dr. Fauci's Emails Tell The Story Of Panic, Lies, And A Possible Cover-Up (thefederalist.com)


Jim Jordan is a Republican. I have seen him in action cross examining witnesses and again I am biased but can well understand the other side not wanting him involved in any hearing as he is very good at his job. It should be noted that Fauci approves funding for Andersens works. I recall his lab got a $5m grant in Nov 2020 and make of that what you will. Vincent Munster also quoted in the article is an employee under Fauci.


Two of the most significant articles about the background of virus are below. Have previously posted this on 5 June.
Vanity Fair article by Katherine Eban. It goes into great detail about the origins of the virus and various connections. Mentions a US Government meeting in Dec 20 where some attendees advised others best not to look too closely due to the "gain of function" funding by USA. A long article but highly recommended. If not read it the article in The Bulletin online by former NY Times science writer Nicholas Wade also interesting. Going the rounds here in Oz as one of the best articles on the virus so far.


Origin of Covid — Following the Clues | by Nicholas Wade | Medium



Wade is a former NY T science writer who has also written for the magazine, Nature, you linked to.


The Lab-Leak Theory: Inside the Fight to Uncover COVID-19’s Origins | Vanity Fair



It was after these two articles that suddenly was ok to mention the lab theory.


Just come back from a long walk and typed "Fauci emails" into Youtube to see what came up. First was a clip featuring Joe Rogans thoughts on emails and gain of function etc. The 2nd was this below featuring Sharri Markson of Sky News. Mentions 2012 report where Fauci says "benefits of research are worth risk of pandemic". She also mentions she has spoken on the record, for her book, to many who worked in National Security who say Fauci never mentioned gain of function. They did not even know Fauci had got the gain of function research going again despite it being banned under Obama. Watching Senator Rand Paul (a Dr) asking Fauci about "gain of function" is also interesting. In questioning by Senator Kennedy (R) Fauci basically said he trusted the Chinese scientists to give him all the information as a result of his US funded grants.
(58) 'Gain-of-Function Godfather': Bombshell emails link Dr Fauci to Wuhan lab leak theory - YouTube


For light relief I highly recommend, via Youtube, the 8 minutes by Jon Stewart on the Stephen Colbert show. He is most definitely of the left but nails it in a funny way.

Two of the names mentioned in email by Andersen :
As a leading virologist, Holmes co-authored the publication of the genome sequence of SARS-CoV-2[SUP][18][/SUP][SUP][19][/SUP] and the early descriptions of the disease, working with Zhang Yongzhen from Fudan University to share the first sequencing data from the virus.[SUP][20][/SUP] Holmes has figured prominently in commentary surrounding its origins. In March 2020, he co-authored a paper titled The proximal origins of SARS-CoV-2, published in Nature Medicine,[SUP][21][/SUP] which concluded that the virus sequence did not appear to be engineered. (note he is an Aussie and has issued a statement about origin of virus Statement from Professor Edward Holmes on the SARS-CoV-2 virus - The University of Sydney . Included for balance but note he works in China.

A leading expert in virology, Bob Garry is part of a team decoding the genome of the coronavirus to determine its origins and how it possibly evolved from bats and pangolins. Garry leads Tulane’s Center of Excellence in the Global Virus Network, an organization of leading medical virologists from 25 countries dedicated to fighting pandemic viral threats through collaborative research, training and advocacy.


Again thanks for your links.


Brett

Brett,

As you know I rarely follow Politically based discussions in the media, especially those from the Far Right and the Far Left. And it's actually a concern for Middle Conservative voters like me when the Far Right and Far Left agree on something {eek3}

Personally I would be wary of information from a Group that calls itself DRASTIC (Decentralized Radical Autonomous Search Team Investigating COVID-19), noting the 'R' stands for 'Radical', whoever they 'support'.

Gain of Function research has been valuable to humans, for example by allowing Bacteria to produce Insulin. However I would agree that if you intend to enhance known Fatal Pathogens for research you had better carry out that research in a Friendly country that also has adequate control measures in place.

Is SARS-Cov-2/Covid-19 a result of Human 'enhancement'? The Experts are still trying to find that out. Personally I don't think it is based on previous outbreaks. However I do believe there's a strong possibility the Virus did escape from the Wuhan Institute. And it is clear that China could have Informed the rest of the World much sooner than they did. That said, if China intended to do harm on a global scale, including Hong Kong, they could have chosen a far more lethal virus than SARS-Cov-2. And IMHO opinion the SARS-Cov-2 is behaving Exactly like a Natural Novel (New) Virus.

Matt

 

[The Military Workshop]

Brett,

As you know I rarely follow Politically based discussions in the media, especially those from the Far Right and the Far Left. And it's actually a concern for Middle Conservative voters like me when the Far Right and Far Left agree on something {eek3}

Personally I would be wary of information from a Group that calls itself DRASTIC (Decentralized Radical Autonomous Search Team Investigating COVID-19), noting the 'R' stands for 'Radical', whoever they 'support'.

Gain of Function research has been valuable to humans, for example by allowing Bacteria to produce Insulin. However I would agree that if you intend to enhance known Fatal Pathogens for research you had better carry out that research in a Friendly country that also has adequate control measures in place.

Is SARS-Cov-2/Covid-19 a result of Human 'enhancement'? The Experts are still trying to find that out. Personally I don't think it is based on previous outbreaks. However I do believe there's a strong possibility the Virus did escape from the Wuhan Institute. And it is clear that China could have Informed the rest of the World much sooner than they did. That said, if China intended to do harm on a global scale, including Hong Kong, they could have chosen a far more lethal virus than SARS-Cov-2. And IMHO opinion the SARS-Cov-2 is behaving Exactly like a Natural Novel (New) Virus.

Matt

Matt,
You picked on the word Radical when perhaps Decentralised, Autonomous, Research and Team are the important words in DRASTIC meaning. Bunch on nerd type looking for a cool name ? They were basically a bunch of people who connected online and did a lot of research. Another I had read about was a fairly young Indian guy whose thing was searching Google. He actually used a Chinese translation tool to search through lots of Chinese Uni papers going back quite a few years. He found an obscure Uni students article which mentioned the deaths of miners in caves in Canton (2012 ?). That is the place the "Bat lady" had since been going to gather samples. 1000km from Wuhan. Lab is 20km from the market.

As John Stewart so funnily said it is like you get an outbreak related to chocolate in Hershey PA and you blame a pangolin. Or something like that.

Have read a few articles about the facility not being fit for purpose in some areas. I think the French assisted in building some of it and they expressed concerns. Somewhere you will find comments about as much protection as you would find in a dentist clinic in USA. The need to completely re-do the airconditioning system in late 2019 is a big clue. Only $600m estimated cost tells you how serious.

When you watch Fauci being questioned about trusting Wuhan Chinese scientists to tell him the truth about their research you can understand how the world got into this mess. Then you add in that so far nobody has questioned Dazack and hey presto you have a genuine conspiracy to cover up.

 

[OzDigger]

Matt,
You picked on the word Radical when perhaps Decentralised, Autonomous, Research and Team are the important words in DRASTIC meaning. Bunch on nerd type looking for a cool name ? They were basically a bunch of people who connected online and did a lot of research. Another I had read about was a fairly young Indian guy whose thing was searching Google. He actually used a Chinese translation tool to search through lots of Chinese Uni papers going back quite a few years. He found an obscure Uni students article which mentioned the deaths of miners in caves in Canton (2012 ?). That is the place the "Bat lady" had since been going to gather samples. 1000km from Wuhan. Lab is 20km from the market.

As John Stewart so funnily said it is like you get an outbreak related to chocolate in Hershey PA and you blame a pangolin. Or something like that.

Have read a few articles about the facility not being fit for purpose in some areas. I think the French assisted in building some of it and they expressed concerns. Somewhere you will find comments about as much protection as you would find in a dentist clinic in USA. The need to completely re-do the airconditioning system in late 2019 is a big clue. Only $600m estimated cost tells you how serious.

When you watch Fauci being questioned about trusting Wuhan Chinese scientists to tell him the truth about their research you can understand how the world got into this mess. Then you add in that so far nobody has questioned Dazack and hey presto you have a genuine conspiracy to cover up.

Brett,

Yes the words DRASTIC and Radical did kinda stand out.

As for the Bat lady, there's no doubt Chinese scientists have been investigating Viruses in Bats over several years. Same has been occurring here in Australia. Australian Bat Lyssavirus (ABLV) and Hendra virus being responsible for Two outbreaks in Australia. At this late stage I doubt there will be any scientific proof that the virus leaked from that Institute or Food Markets. Not that most people need proof to form an 'opinion'.

As the world population expands we're likely to experience increasing exposure to new viruses as we encroach into more remote areas. Fortunately most of the more lethal viruses require direct contact with the infected animal, it's the viruses that can spread thru the air and attack lung tissues that cause the greatest threat.

In any case the cause is mostly academic at this stage, we need to increase the percentage of people vaccinated against Covid19 to move on and back to a normal way of life.

 

[damian]

We can all only speculate.

But the lab theory of origin is a perfectly reasonable hypothesis.

The way to debunk it, is to allow a neutral team of experts to investigate it.

And follow the truth where ever it takes you.

Denying access is very suspicious and does not speak of open transparency.

Identifying the source be it natural or man made is very important for the future and not not just academic.