Critiquing or mocking a set you don't like? (2 Viewers)

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Mitch said:
Rob...

Nothing was aimed at you about big bold lettering in fact nothing in my posts was I was qualifying remarks that long term posters have also made to me about things that irritate them. No names were mentioned. You do sound though Rob somewhat like you did in the fun part when it was raised as if these are new issues to the forum and, its simple to see by back reading they are not. I am surprised at the outcry when people moan about things today that the memory fails to remind them it has always been and, often has been very much worse, than anything put in recent threads.

Even Brad has just mentioned his experiences as a moderator and said in a couple of months we will probably be at the same points raised. It happens and will happen again. Its not individuals its a collective problem and issue. You often post a thread after dispatches who is buying this or that. People who are not will post that and, often explain why. It may be that they are not happy with the look colour or detail even price but, thats a valid point to make in the thread started. If others support their points are we saying they cannot reaffirm or further validate their opinion?

I don't think you can really expect a thread you start like that not to get negative comments but, again, I can't see how they can anger or irritate as its what is expected. I have seen in my time on here many people shouted down by certain sections of this forum in ways which really are rather shameful. of which many senior members have actively participated. people actively shot down and ridiculed for making comments about sets so, my point was that its a two way street where nobody really has clean hands.

My concerns were that it will be used as a stick to negate valid discussion about what is released by whoever. You talk about negative comments and things like that well, two posts in this thread are very personal but, are allowed to remain rah rah is as bad as rivet counters and, some of the other things that are applied to each supposed group. Again its down to everyone to change this tone not just the mods with the threat of sanctions

I don't think I have changed my tone since I joined where people are deliberately having a go then fine act against them but, restricting dialogue because it offends ones choosen manufacturers products is censorship to keep a group happy I cannot understand. I have spoken out many times when that has happened and we have spoken many times about posters its been aimed at
Mitch
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Mitch,
I don't think you will ever get it no matter how many people state it in different verbage, collectors are soooooooooooo tired of hearing your personal insults, (you can call it whatever you want/or paint it any color you choose) whether it be Andy at K&C, Matt at FL, Brian at CS, no need to mention T. Gunn because you shower that company with plenty of praise (which is a good thing) and the collectors in between, the majority of us would like to enjoy this forum as a place to read/post/pics/dios and to get the hell away from the every day hustle and bustle of life and when you log on and hope just to relax and have some fun I get handed a bunch of "IMHO"..gets old dude, you say "well I don't have to read it", well maybe it should have never been posted in the first place, yea, yea I already know, freedom of choice, and that as well is a good thing, with that being said, my late Aunt told me once if I had to defend my actions to many people, maybe those many people are in the right and I'm in the wrong, ..and I will agree with you on one thing and that is in your last your paragraph, you have not changed you tone since you joined the forum, I absolutely agree 100% with you on that mate...Sammy
 
Peter Reuss said:
This forum is a place where people come to share their opinions on the toy soldier hobby. Many times these opinions are positive...but at times people don't like what they see. That is what this forum is all about.

However, there is a line that sometimes gets crossed between 'critiquing' and 'mocking.'

A critique is pointing out a flaw that you see in a set. You may join in a civil conversation about it, with people bringing documentation to bear. Again, this is what the forum is for.

There are times when people move beyond critique and start mocking a set. This is what happens when people repeatedly (and in many threads) hammer away at a perceived flaw. People who actually 'dare' to buy the set are dismissed as 'rah rah' folks who 'don't care about accuracy.' This behavior is NOT acceptable and will be moderated.

People collect for all sorts of reasons. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean someone else might not love it.

Feel free to not like a set...but DO NOT feel free to raise a ruckus that turns into a fight.

This is not a thread to name names...I am just clarifying how we will handle things going forward.
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Nowhere in here did I say that we would not allow critique. It has been and always will be a part of the conversation.

It's one thing to say, "The muzzle on that gun is incorrect." It's another to say, "I can't believe that X company would dare to put out such tripe. They obviously have monkeys doing research for them. Anyone who would buy this obviously doesn't care about quality."
 
Rob said:
Mitch,

I would like this to be known by all on the forum whether they be ra ra's or na na's or pa pa's or grandpa's:wink2: Anyone can say anything in my Dispatches threads, its me just doing a service for the good folk here and all opinions always welcome.

I too would not want healthy discussion crushed or put down, nobody wants that. We should be free to do as we please and you made a good point about Ludwigs poll and Neil's Spitfire thread, these did not descend into bitterness.

I can only sum it up best as I did at start of this thread, freedom of speech whilst showing courtesy to others and possibly occasional personal restraint is whats needed.

But as you and Brad have said, no doubt this will be one of those boomerang threads.

Cheers

Rob
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I think it good that Rob has put his point across as now I know why I was getting up his nose and take it on board :redface2:Sorry mate , to me it a great hobby and it better we all get along ^&grin
 
Peter Reuss said:
Nowhere in here did I say that we would not allow critique. It has been and always will be a part of the conversation.

It's one thing to say, "The muzzle on that gun is incorrect." It's another to say, "I can't believe that X company would dare to put out such tripe. They obviously have monkeys doing research for them. Anyone who would buy this obviously doesn't care about quality."
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Totally agree. Besides, try and get your average chimpanzee to do any meaningful historical research nowadays, and he'll just laugh in your face, throw a banana at you and then get on to his union rep about poor pay packages. Honestly, you can't give the work away.
 
The biggest arguements on the Forum stem from manufacturer loyalty.......

When you think about it...WHY ?

I know what I do and dont like and I am inclined to speak about it myself. Then I thought what do I have to gain, so I stopped.

When you think about it no one really cares about what you like or mock anyway, so why get so involved.

I do appreciate when someone points historical innacuracy and the manufacturers should respond to that. I will continue to point that out myself if I am knowledgeable about a particular item. I think it is a service to the collector and manufacturer alike. Alex
 
Thatt clears that up I don't believe I have ever said a set is tripe or, that you are blind if you buy it or mine are better than yours. These are different things entirely to what I am interested in talking about.
Mitch

Peter Reuss said:
Nowhere in here did I say that we would not allow critique. It has been and always will be a part of the conversation.

It's one thing to say, "The muzzle on that gun is incorrect." It's another to say, "I can't believe that X company would dare to put out such tripe. They obviously have monkeys doing research for them. Anyone who would buy this obviously doesn't care about quality."
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Well it looks like the first casualty of these endless debates is Rob. He sent me a PM asking me to post that he is temporarily not allowed to post for a while. So he will not be able to respond to further argument.

No - it isn't Peter clamping down. It's much funnier than that. He exceeded the number of posts allowed in a 30 day period. {sm3} Hard to believe (or not that hard to believe) but Rob has finally been silenced. Now I can post whatever I want and get the last word. ^&cool

The Canadians got Wittmann. {eek3}:p{sm4}

Don't anyone let him know that Pete can probably reset the post counter for Rob. {sm4}

Terry
 
Mitch said:
Thatt clears that up I don't believe I have ever said a set is tripe or, that you are blind if you buy it or mine are better than yours. These are different things entirely to what I am interested in talking about.
Mitch
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Yes u did, when u were re-selling your FL item's. I think an Apology to FL should be made!!!!!
 
A problem is that some people pointing out flaws (nah nah's) are usually attacked first by the loyalists (rah rah's) accusing them of being negative against K&C and it goes off from there. As far as the Typhoon goes I don't think anybody didn't like it quality wise but the overpricing of it was the main issue. Nobody can use the word RAMJAGER without getting censored and the color of the fuel browser usually generates a debate as well. The color of it was proven to be inaccurate for the time,still a great looking piece,but loyalist still defended it. I understand Andy reads the threads but he mainly replies to the negativity and in a less than constructive way. He comes off way too arrogant when he is wrong. I said before we as collectors don't have the experience of running a successful toy soldier company but that doesn't mean 1) we don't know what we want 2) we don't know when something is overpriced 3) we don't know what we are talking about as many members seem to know their history 4) we don't have some pretty darn good ideas for releases. Keith
 
Now that, is funny. I'll try not to abuse Rob's unfortunate position.
Rob, we'll assume that you'll be picking up the entire bar tab at the December show unless you post back to disagree in the next hour or so.
Phantom Warrior said:
Well it looks like the first casualty of these endless debates is Rob. He sent me a PM asking me to post that he is temporarily not allowed to post for a while. So he will not be able to respond to further argument.
No - it isn't Peter clamping down. It's much funnier than that. He exceeded the number of posts allowed in a 30 day period. {sm3} Hard to believe (or not that hard to believe) but Rob has finally been silenced. Now I can post whatever I want and get the last word. ^&cool

The Canadians got Wittmann. {eek3}:p{sm4}

Don't anyone let him know that Pete can probably reset the post counter for Rob. {sm4}

Terry
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Phantom Warrior said:
Well it looks like the first casualty of these endless debates is Rob. He sent me a PM asking me to post that he is temporarily not allowed to post for a while. So he will not be able to respond to further argument.

No - it isn't Peter clamping down. It's much funnier than that. He exceeded the number of posts allowed in a 30 day period. {sm3} Hard to believe (or not that hard to believe) but Rob has finally been silenced. Now I can post whatever I want and get the last word. ^&cool

The Canadians got Wittmann. {eek3}:p{sm4}

Don't anyone let him know that Pete can probably reset the post counter for Rob. {sm4}

Terry
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Sorry Pete - your increased temporary limit of 400 posts still isn't enough to allow Rob to post. ^&grin Does the counter allow 4 digits? :rolleyes2: There are a few people who will burst being limited to 250 posts in 30 days. And even more will skirt the line and have frequent blackout periods.

Peace in our time {sm4}{sm4}

Terry
 
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Pete - do you realize that protagonists will be able to monitor the number of their adversaries posts, note when they are near their limit, and then start a debate. ^&grin

I wonder if Mitch not responding in the last little while is because of Rev. Pete's peacemaking? ^&grin Who else thinks they will be affected by this? Oh, sorry, you probably can't post a response. {sm4}

Terry
 
Phantom Warrior said:
Well it looks like the first casualty of these endless debates is Rob. He sent me a PM asking me to post that he is temporarily not allowed to post for a while. So he will not be able to respond to further argument.

No - it isn't Peter clamping down. It's much funnier than that. He exceeded the number of posts allowed in a 30 day period. {sm3} Hard to believe (or not that hard to believe) but Rob has finally been silenced. Now I can post whatever I want and get the last word. ^&cool

The Canadians got Wittmann. {eek3}:p{sm4}

Don't anyone let him know that Pete can probably reset the post counter for Rob. {sm4}

Terry
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In your dreams my friend!

In your wildest fantasy!

That was a short break:wink2:

Rob
 
Rob said:
In your dreams my friend!

In your wildest fantasy!

That was a short break:wink2:

Rob
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But where will the heavy posters be when Pete turns on the limiter in 21 days. I wonder if anyone is already over 250 for this past 10 days because they will count towards the total.

Terry
 
Phantom Warrior said:
Too funny {eek3}{sm4}

Terry
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Way too funny. In order to help out Sir Rob & the Crown in addition to the Britons Team Sky success at the Tour de France, this Yank will take over the "Dispatches" thread for our down but but not out comrade till he returns from his forced R&R.

Hang Tough Rob,
Beau~
 
Phantom Warrior said:
But where will the heavy posters be when Pete turns on the limiter in 21 days. I wonder if anyone is already over 250 for this past 10 days because they will count towards the total.

Terry
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Beaufighter said:
Way too funny. In order to help out Sir Rob & the Crown in addition to the Britons Team Sky success at the Tour de France, this Yank will take over the "Dispatches" thread for our down but but not out comrade till he returns from his forced R&R.

Hang Tough Rob,
Beau~
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Beau, I'm back already:wink2: I'll cut back a bit to allow me the posts to do Dispatches, panic over.^&grin

Rob
 
Terry..

too busy with writing apologies. still dont know when the count starts or when it does not anyone care to explain?
Mitch


Phantom Warrior said:
Pete - do you realize that protagonists will be able to monitor the number of their adversaries posts, note when they are near their limit, and then start a debate. ^&grin

I wonder if Mitch not responding in the last little while is because of Rev. Pete's peacemaking? ^&grin Who else thinks they will be affected by this? Oh, sorry, you probably can't post a response. {sm4}

Terry
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