First Legion vs. King&Country (1 Viewer)

[debrito]

This was the REAL WWII, without any offence to any one. I can understanding that almost everybody on the TF is from USA or from other English speak countries (Commonwealth), and you guys want to have your own soldiers + your own Tanks (even if they are terrible ugly) from your native Countries, also you grew up in the Cold-War Era Iron Curtain (hate for the Russians).

But still, IMO if you want to have a really WWII Land Warfare, if you like or not, you can not deny the East Front.

Rod.

 

[Rob]

This was the REAL WWII, without any offence to any one. I can understanding that almost everybody on the TF is from USA or from other English speak countries (Commonwealth), and you guys want to have your own soldiers + your own Tanks (even if they are terrible ugly) from your native Countries, also you grew up in the Cold-War Era Iron Curtain (hate for the Russians).

But still, IMO if you want to have a really WWII Land Warfare, if you like or not, you can not deny the East Front.

Rod.

Rod,

I hear what you are saying and i understand how terrible that front was.But its not right to say that the guys who fought at Monte Cassino,Normandy,Burma,Alamein,Arnhem,Iwo Jima etc were not fighting a real war.They gave their lives just the same as those on the eastern front,just because many more were killed there it does not make the death of any other soldier less of a loss or that their death was easier.I'm sure you meant no offence.

Rob

 

[lancer]

One certainly cannot deny the Russian contribution and sacrifice to victory in WW2. It is not going to far to state that Germany lost WW2 because of the Eastern front. Germany had to commit 75% of her military resources to the east and they still got stomped. Without Russia, no European landings are possible and, thus, no victory short of nuclear weapons. Russia does not get the credit due her. JMHO. -- lancer

 

[debrito]

Rod,

I hear what you are saying and i understand how terrible that front was.But its not right to say that the guys who fought at Monte Cassino,Normandy,Burma,Alamein,Arnhem,Iwo Jima etc were not fighting a real war.They gave their lives just the same as those on the eastern front,just because many more were killed there it does not make the death of any other soldier less of a loss or that their death was easier.I'm sure you meant no offence.

Rob

Rob one day my writing will be better. (Sorry for that)

Of course, you are 100% right. What I was trying to say was the War in the East was unprecedented regarding the size and the scale of the non-well-knowing battles that occurred on the East, were something from out of space. No other Army from anyother Country was able to endure those loses inflicted by the Germans. The TOTAL WAR and the mobilization of those Countries make me use the term of Real War, like the in movie Enemy at the Gates, where the fate of the world was decided.

I do respect and take off my hat to any one, where ever they were and to all they effort they gave to combat evil.

Rod.

 

[Rob]

Rob one day my writing will be better. (Sorry for that)

Of course, you are 100% right. What I was trying to say was the War in the East was unprecedented regarding the size and the scale of the non-well-knowing battles that occurred on the East, were something from out of space. No other Army from anyother Country was able to endure those loses inflicted by the Germans. The TOTAL WAR and the mobilization of those Countries make me use the term of Real War, like the in movie Enemy at the Gates, where the fate of the world was decided.

I do respect and take off my hat to any one, where ever they were and to all they effort they gave to combat evil.

Rod.

Your writing is better than mine Rod!.

The scale and suffering of those on the Eastern front was truly staggering wasn't it,the casualtie figures are breath taking indeed.There is no doubt that without the enormous Russian effort and sacrafice the defeat of the Nazis would have taken many more years.

Rob

 

[nasirkasmani]

All nations involved & contributed in defeat of Axis powers, however big or small, should be proud of their contribution.

However, the tenacious, brutal, all-or-nothing, chivalry-out-of-the-window, kill-them-all warfare endured by combatants of the eastern front has to take center stage.

without the sacrifices and fightback of the Russians, the Axis had a high change of victory before the americans had the A-bomb.

 

[IXEC]

The quantity is surely impressive.

However, I find the quality of both sides in that theatre sadly lacking. Btw, I am referring to the quality (integrity) of the combatants on the Eastern Front rather than the quality of their equipment.

Don't forget that both sides in that conflict not only turned a blind eye, they often condoned the behavior of their troops against the non-combatants as well as the opposing army. A depressing period for humanity imo.

That's why there's The Geneva Convention, to which the Soviet Union was a non-signatory.

 

[IXEC]

All nations involved & contributed in defeat of Axis powers, however big or small, should be proud of their contribution.

However, the tenacious, brutal, all-or-nothing, chivalry-out-of-the-window, kill-them-all warfare endured by combatants of the eastern front has to take center stage.

without the sacrifices and fightback of the Russians, the Axis had a high change of victory before the americans had the A-bomb.

Well put Nasir,

Lend-Lease was the tipping factor. Virtually the whole Red Army was feed by American produce. That is why Stalin stopped at Berlin. He had plans to make all of Europe, Red.

But who would of fed his Army.

 

[vandilay]

Although i have read plenty of books on the eastern front and find it fascinating.
I,ve never regarded the Russians as being on our team as it where in WW2 ,
I think if hitler haden,t attacked them they would have happily continued to expand their territorys at others expence until they ran out of places to go .
So although they ended up being a major player in the Nazis downfall I just dont [whether right or wrong] give them the same credit as other nations.

 

[Gazza]

When you have read enough about the Eastern Front you will understand that the extent and intensity of the looting, raping and murdering exceeded all wars before and since

More than the Japanese invasion of China and Asia....

The Rape of Nanking puts Antony Beevor's Berlin in the shade.

One interesting dimension from Chris Browning is that where a 'racial' element was added to a WWII theatre, the fighting was generally more brutal - Eastern Front, Pacific

 

[nasirkasmani]

More than the Japanese invasion of China and Asia....

The Rape of Nanking puts Antony Beevor's Berlin in the shade.

One interesting dimension from Chris Browning is that where a 'racial' element was added to a WWII theatre, the fighting was generally more brutal - Eastern Front, Pacific

Japan's conduct against populace and POWs in WW2 in my opinion exceeds the Germans and the Soviets.

The rape of nanking is an example of what the japanese did against ALL conquered territories.

before anyone gets worked up with my this statement, i strongly suggest you guys read the book, and you get a sizable picture of what my people when thru in 4 years of hell.

the fact that japan was not taken to task by the victorious Allied powers, and STILL refuses to accept responsibility (they even had their OWN nationwide school version of WW2, claiming the asians INVITED japan to invade them!) had been a raking point in fostering asian unity till today.

 

[debrito]

One thing happened for sure....The announcement of the releasing of WWII series by First Legion has created an interesting atmosphere on this forum...

 

[the 999th]

Although i have read plenty of books on the eastern front and find it fascinating.
I,ve never regarded the Russians as being on our team as it where in WW2 ,
I think if hitler haden,t attacked them they would have happily continued to expand their territorys at others expence until they ran out of places to go .
So although they ended up being a major player in the Nazis downfall I just dont [whether right or wrong] give them the same credit as other nations.

Strangely enough, I don't think my grandfather or many other Poles of his generation particularly regarded the Russians as Allies either nor having fought at Monte Cassino as well the Eastern Front did he feel it was some sort of walk in the park in comparison.

It is a gross simplication to see the war on the Eastern Front as involving only two sides and the Russians as the good guys combatting evil. They were quite capable of acting as the aggressor and commiting atrocities both on their own people and on those of neighbouring states even before the German invasion.

 

[Capitolron]

Japan's conduct against populace and POWs in WW2 in my opinion exceeds the Germans and the Soviets.

The rape of nanking is an example of what the japanese did against ALL conquered territories.

before anyone gets worked up with my this statement, i strongly suggest you guys read the book, and you get a sizable picture of what my people when thru in 4 years of hell.

the fact that japan was not taken to task by the victorious Allied powers, and STILL refuses to accept responsibility (they even had their OWN nationwide school version of WW2, claiming the asians INVITED japan to invade them!) had been a raking point in fostering asian unity till today.

Nasir

I agree with you - Japan had no respect for human life.

The United States - I believe - understood that and had no problem dropping the only Atomic Weapon used in the World during a War throughout all of history on Japan - no just once, twice. In My Opinion it was for than than Pearl Harbor when we did it - it was for the rest of Asia. Japan deserved it and World knew it.

Ron

 

[IXEC]

One thing happened for sure....The announcement of the releasing of WWII series by First Legion has created an interesting atmosphere on this forum...

Nothing short of revolutionary, let the revolution begin

 

[Olly Read]

Strangely enough, I don't think my grandfather or many other Poles of his generation particularly regarded the Russians as Allies either nor having fought at Monte Cassino as well the Eastern Front did he feel it was some sort of walk in the park in comparison.

It is a gross simplication to see the war on the Eastern Front as involving only two sides and the Russians as the good guys combatting evil. They were quite capable of acting as the aggressor and commiting atrocities both on their own people and on those of neighbouring states even before the German invasion.

At last somebody on the forum who knows what he is on about! I cannot be bothered going into all the details of the Russian atrocities inflicted on other nations or their own people under Uncle Joe's regime, but lets not foget that when Russia 'liberated' the Eastern half of Poland 14 days or so after the Germans invaded in 1939 they murdered nearly 22,000 known Polish prisoners of war and other undesireables and buried them in the forests of Katyn - nobody said a thing. Unbelievably the Russians tried to blame the Germans for it once they had been rumbled! The only reason we helped the Russians is because we saw them as a lesser evil compared to the Germans, once we got rid of Hitler even Churchill said we had killed the wrong pig! I don't have a problem with the average Russian guy, honest, its just at the time they were being lead by a total megalomaniac who by pure chance was being overshadowed by an even bigger tyrant at the time - Hitler.

 

[nasirkasmani]

At last somebody on the forum who knows what he is on about! I cannot be bothered going into all the details of the Russian atrocities inflicted on other nations or their own people under Uncle Joe's regime, but lets not foget that when Russia 'liberated' the Eastern half of Poland 14 days or so after the Germans invaded in 1939 they murdered nearly 22,000 known Polish prisoners of war and other undesireables and buried them in the forests of Katyn - nobody said a thing. Unbelievably the Russians tried to blame the Germans for it once they had been rumbled! The only reason we helped the Russians is because we saw them as a lesser evil compared to the Germans, once we got rid of Hitler even Churchill said we had killed the wrong pig! I don't have a problem with the average Russian guy, honest, its just at the time they were being lead by a total megalomaniac who by pure chance was being overshadowed by an even bigger tyrant at the time - Hitler.

i agree with this assessment.

the alliance with Uncle Joe was an alliance of necessity, as at that time just before the alliance, Germany (and her allies) looks like winning the war, and create a new world order based on a concocting mix of Nazism/Aryanism/Fascism/Japanese Imperialism.

The Allies knew what Uncle Joe was all about and in all probability decided to fight fire with fire or evil with evil.

The bad seed that Stalin planted against eastern europe and his own populace can be seen by the sheer willingness of these countries to willingly help the germans (finland,romania,hungary,latvia,ukraine,croatia,white russians,etc...)

i am grateful to God that the german leadership did not fully utilize this glaring hatred of the slavs against stalin, and instead Himmler's men carried out appalling racially motivated ethnic cleansing and looting, which forced these people to go to stalin's camp.

i think the other Allied members made a bad mistake in letting Uncle Joe ruled eastern europe post WW2.

Uncle Joe ruled with an iron fist and brutally crushed the many uprisings (hungary, Poland, etc) against his communist regime.

and i feel for the Poles: fighting valiantly against invasion by both Germany and Soviets, had their upper class destroyed, fought well for the Allies, won the war, but their country was STILL occupied till 1989.

 

[redhugh]

So when is FL launching their new range?

 

[OzDigger]

More than the Japanese invasion of China and Asia....

The Rape of Nanking puts Antony Beevor's Berlin in the shade.

One interesting dimension from Chris Browning is that where a 'racial' element was added to a WWII theatre, the fighting was generally more brutal - Eastern Front, Pacific

I agree, which is why I don't collect much in the way of the Asian/Pacific theater.

 

[OzDigger]

All nations involved & contributed in defeat of Axis powers, however big or small, should be proud of their contribution.

However, the tenacious, brutal, all-or-nothing, chivalry-out-of-the-window, kill-them-all warfare endured by combatants of the eastern front has to take center stage.

without the sacrifices and fightback of the Russians, the Axis had a high change of victory before the americans had the A-bomb.

I am happy not to collect a range representing the Center Stage for brutality. What you guys do is your affair.