FL Winter Panther: Stalingrad (2 Viewers)

Mitch said:
Rob/Sammy...

I have no problem with Rah Rah at all but, I find the constant attacks against those who dare to bring up errors and faults historical innacuracies etc that all manufacturers do month after month and year after year to be rather immature. Let the manufacturers do their research properly and with diligence and those who can see these issues would not have to say anything.

If it does not bother one then fine but, to lump anyone who mentions it into the catagories that some do on here is absurd and, IMO rather rude. What some seem to think is that if it looks ok thats all that counts well. some do and some won't accept errors which, are usually, ones that should not occur and, remembering that collectors are not paying peanuts for the product.

Its about give and take as always with life, the good with the bad. I can think of several people on here who know their WWII stuff who comment on errors its the same when we discussed movies and, a fair few who dislike this side of the hobby brought up rafts of historical errors in films such as Battle of the Bulge etc and, recently reach for the sky.
Mitch
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What I also find immature Mitch is the people who have a clear personal agenda and do not think any of us see it sticking out like a sore thumb everytime they post, now if its ok for them to (with rank ignorance and selfishness) peddle their barely disguised dislike of one company on threads where they know people are trying to share enjoyment of the product, then they fully deserve any comments that come their way. Whether it be FL or K&C , if people cannot curb their jealousy and dislike of a product they should have the courtesy to allow those who do not share their views to enjoy their own threads .

Rob
 
Mitch said:
Rob/Sammy...

I have no problem with Rah Rah at all but, I find the constant attacks against those who dare to bring up errors and faults historical innacuracies etc that all manufacturers do month after month and year after year to be rather immature. Let the manufacturers do their research properly and with diligence and those who can see these issues would not have to say anything.

If it does not bother one then fine but, to lump anyone who mentions it into the catagories that some do on here is absurd and, IMO rather rude. What some seem to think is that if it looks ok thats all that counts well. some do and some won't accept errors which, are usually, ones that should not occur and, remembering that collectors are not paying peanuts for the product.

Its about give and take as always with life, the good with the bad. I can think of several people on here who know their WWII stuff who comment on errors its the same when we discussed movies and, a fair few who dislike this side of the hobby brought up rafts of historical errors in films such as Battle of the Bulge etc and, recently reach for the sky.
Mitch
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Mitch, I truly admire First Legions product..rah-rah!!!!!!!! and because I dont agree with your assessment of something your gonna call me rude and immature?? I never called you names/or implied about your mental status, time you look in the mirror brother...Sammy
 
By the way Mitch, my post was not aimed at you in any way at al by the way!l^&grin
 
Rob...

Did not think it was and would expect you to say if it were
Mitch
 
I think this really is going no where. I would also like to say the comments were not aimed at you or I would have said so. I am not one of these people who hides behind the PM button I will say what I feel and if its aimed at someone it will be made perfectly clear
Mitch

sammy719 said:
Mitch, I truly admire First Legions product..rah-rah!!!!!!!! and because I dont agree with your assessment of something your gonna call me rude and immature?? I never called you names/or implied about your mental status, time you look in the mirror brother...Sammy
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Mitch, do you own any FL AFV's, I don't myself but they sure look good.

Rob
 
Rob...

seven WWII sets as of now and a few Samurai. But, even if I had not one I can offer an opinion on the sets as a painter. So, if one looks back at the thread their was no comment on quality etc or price or any of the usual stuff bandied around I picked up on an innocuous comment about the colour of paint and, all of a sudden I am apparently causing chaos.

There are plenty on here who look back at threads and, I charge anyone to find any thread where I have just picked fault or had a go at any manufacturer for no apparent reason??? It just does not happen even the issues about the AK panzer III were discussed in detail with another poster before I placed a post.

Should two of FL fervant collectors not have made this an issue this would have been comments between myself and Matt. four comments in one year and I am causing chaos don't make me laugh, as has just been said to me in PM if you cannot discuss the good the bad and the ugly in this hobby whats the point of the forum????
Mitch

Rob said:
Mitch, do you own any FL AFV's, I don't myself but they sure look good.

Rob
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Mitch said:
Rob...

seven WWII sets as of now and a few Samurai. But, even if I had not one I can offer an opinion on the sets as a painter. So, if one looks back at the thread their was no comment on quality etc or price or any of the usual stuff bandied around I picked up on an innocuous comment about the colour of paint and, all of a sudden I am apparently causing chaos.

There are plenty on here who look back at threads and, I charge anyone to find any thread where I have just picked fault or had a go at any manufacturer for no apparent reason??? It just does not happen even the issues about the AK panzer III were discussed in detail with another poster before I placed a post.

Should two of FL fervant collectors not have made this an issue this would have been comments between myself and Matt. four comments in one year and I am causing chaos don't make me laugh, as has just been said to me in PM if you cannot discuss the good the bad and the ugly in this hobby whats the point of the forum????
Mitch
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Sometimes you have to let the back and forth just go Mitch, it isn't worth it. It takes the original topic way off course and now we are into a debate situation which is not the original purpose of this post.

As I asked before lets just leave it be and move on.

Thanks guys
 
I don't think anyone will claim there is one definitive correct grey that can be applied to 1/30 scale models in order to maintain historical accuracy. There is a valid range (factoring in the scale effect) from the original dark grey (RAL7021) that vehicles carried when they left the factory through the most faded and weathered variant that one would find in the field. The original factory color should be the easy end of this scale to determine but even this has proven challenging. As for the faded/weathered end of the range we only have photographs to act as a guide. These photographs will include period shots with the inherent limitations and distortions and modern pictures of old pieces of equipment which carry their own set of uncertanties. This all makes for a very subjective exercise. In my opinion First Legion grey falls within the valid range but is biased towards the lighter faded end of the range. Probably the most realistic scenario would feature vehicles throughout the range as there was commonly a mix of newer and older vehicles. Manufacturers are unlikely to do this, however, since collectors would likely then complain about consistency. This means the manufacturers choose an average that appeals to them and stick with it. While personally I would choose a darker variant of grey on the FL vehicles I am satisfied that the shade they have chosen falls within the valid range.

As to the issue of overall weathering of FL vehicles I am happy with the vehicles I have purchased to date including the wheels and tracks on the tracked vehicles. It's the tires on the Sd.Kfz.232s and 45mm AT gun that I think look out of place.
 
Mitch, Where critique is logical and clearly in line with the discussion of the product being addressed....The poster must never be silenced or castigated by the "RAH" "RAH" crowd wether it be on the FL or the K/C site....We can strongly disagree and still discuss and compare products in regards to quality and prices....That is maturity...no manufacturer walks on water....although some may think so....
 
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fmethorst said:
I don't think anyone will claim there is one definitive correct grey that can be applied to 1/30 scale models in order to maintain historical accuracy. There is a valid range (factoring in the scale effect) from the original dark grey (RAL7021) that vehicles carried when they left the factory through the most faded and weathered variant that one would find in the field. The original factory color should be the easy end of this scale to determine but even this has proven challenging. As for the faded/weathered end of the range we only have photographs to act as a guide. These photographs will include period shots with the inherent limitations and distortions and modern pictures of old pieces of equipment which carry their own set of uncertanties. This all makes for a very subjective exercise. In my opinion First Legion grey falls within the valid range but is biased towards the lighter faded end of the range. Probably the most realistic scenario would feature vehicles throughout the range as there was commonly a mix of newer and older vehicles. Manufacturers are unlikely to do this, however, since collectors would likely then complain about consistency. This means the manufacturers choose an average that appeals to them and stick with it. While personally I would choose a darker variant of grey on the FL vehicles I am satisfied that the shade they have chosen falls within the valid range.

As to the issue of overall weathering of FL vehicles I am happy with the vehicles I have purchased to date including the wheels and tracks on the tracked vehicles. It's the tires on the Sd.Kfz.232s and 45mm AT gun that I think look out of place.
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I think the problem with weathering it very much down to personal taste & think FL have got it right , I would love them to make a Panther tank , & you got to admire how there using new materials to improve detail
 
looks like this thread caught fire !

I must say that you can't compare FL afvs with the ones modellers submit in some competitions... I mean there's no limit to the number of hours some people can put in painting the little miniatures we enjoy so much. The workers making FL afvs have to paint them according to some pretty strict requirements.. It's not exactly the same process used bu modellers or painters doing a custom job.. a one of a kind.. So this discussion is pretty pointless..

Alex
 
fmethorst said:
As for the faded/weathered end of the range we only have photographs to act as a guide. This all makes for a very subjective exercise. In my opinion First Legion grey falls within the valid range but is biased towards the lighter faded end of the range. Probably the most realistic scenario would feature vehicles throughout the range as there was commonly a mix of newer and older vehicles. Manufacturers are unlikely to do this, however, since collectors would likely then complain about consistency. This means the manufacturers choose an average that appeals to them and stick with it. While personally I would choose a darker variant of grey on the FL vehicles I am satisfied that the shade they have chosen falls within the valid range.
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Well said...That is a good explaination....Is it a valid range of "Grey"?.....That is the questiion...I am NOT an excellent model painter...only fair...but it would seem to me that it is easier to adjust a lighter shade to darker.... and not so eazy to lighten a shade which may be too dark.....Probably better to er slightly lighter and let the collector personalize their own models in regards to heavy weathering if so desired....Personally I am VERY satisfied with the shade of grey on the PanzerIII and a little less so on the Grey Stug....But both are still in the acceptable range.
 
Alex said:
looks like this thread caught fire !

I must say that you can't compare FL afvs with the ones modellers submit in some competitions... I mean there's no limit to the number of hours some people can put in painting the little miniatures we enjoy so much. The workers making FL afvs have to paint them according to some pretty strict requirements.. It's not exactly the same process used bu modellers or painters doing a custom job.. a one of a kind.. So this discussion is pretty pointless..

Alex
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Quite True
 
thebritfarmer said:
Sometimes you have to let the back and forth just go Mitch, it isn't worth it. It takes the original topic way off course and now we are into a debate situation which is not the original purpose of this post.

As I asked before lets just leave it be and move on.

Thanks guys
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Totally moved on here Scott, sometimes a cold beer soothes the savage beast:)...Sammy
 
You talked me into it...nothing like a good Minnesota brew...

schells-oktoberfest.jpg
 
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