Is first legion edge cutting. (4 Viewers)

Simpson & his donkey.

Simpson & his donkey.

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Is First Legion doing and leading from the front with out of the box thinking. I think they are on the way towards something right out of the box. The rest of the toy soldier makers will have to follow in painting to catch up. There are some great sclupts being made now by other companies but the painting First Legion is doing is a jump up. Catch them if you can. What do you guy's think. Simmo.
 
I think you re right especially with theFL WW2 Germans the sculpting and painting on them is second to none in my opinion, for less than a 100 dollars anyway.
 
I think in relation to things like Crusades and samurai et al they do indeed bridge a gap between what was on the market and, some of the very expensive well painted sets which cost, often too much for average collectors to have. In that respect they have done well.

In relation to WWII I don't think there was a gap to fill as WWII is already, well covered. Many of the top end manufacturers do not produce a significant amount of WWII for their to have been a gap to bridge.

As a Painter, I think there are some things that I would not do that have been done with the range. I still have issues with facial similarity too small helmets, and, some shading and paint issues like the straight lines painted on rifles for wood grain effect. I hear all the time from the same collectors about how well they are sculpted and well painted but, I don't know if this is because some are not painters and I am but, when I look at a figure I see things that I don't like in an artistic or realistic sense. As I said they are painted well but, some of the shading is heavy and not blended for me really, there should be a seemless blend not stark lines which, all manufacturers do.

In relation to sculpting I don't think they have moved outside the box and rocked the hobby. Many manufactuers are producing very good sculpts in the 1/30th banner. I hear sometimes that a good sculpt makes for a good figure well, yes that is fairly true but, the sculpt whatever will only be as good as its painted. I think when you look at figures across the board all are well done. I have seen the addition of cheek bones and similar facial feature teeth in open mouths and similar which, add to the overall effect but, they have to be painted to show the detail. Thats why, I believe that a sculpt is down to the painter. for me, there is very little difference in sculpts from the main manufacturers.

At the end of the day its down to personal choice and opinions
Mitch
 
Mitch has made what I think is a very good post that pretty much sums up my feelings of FL vs others. I don't think the plainer pieces like ACW are worth the extra money and I don't like the faces on the WWII figures. The crossover for me is on the NAPs and AWI where the extra detail on the figures appeals to me, although I prefer the larger size of the K&C/TGM figures. FL has done NAP regiments and troops from countries that other manufacturers don't do allowing me a wider choice. About half my NAPs are from FL. Where I think FL really shines is with their figures from the Crusades and the new medieval figures that have a lot of painting and even though are expensive to me, I enjoy getting a few of those highly detailed pieces.

Terry
 
Interesting thread.

I do own every FL samurai figures, many Naps including brit guards, french line infantry, old french guards, gordons, prussians, russians and Nassau guys.. Plus will have soon every AWI figures. I do also have some of their mamluks.

The other company that produce figures close to FL is Aeroart and the like.

Fl figures except their crusaders and mamluks are exactly of the same scale than Aeroart ones. Sculpting is identical. I have just bought some Aeroart russian palace guards and the heads are almost the same as ones from the FL french old guards and the russian infantry figures. Nothing surprising since the sculptors are coming from the same area. Now yes most FL figures are smaller in size but I do prefer it this way since I can pack more per square foot without a compromise in detailing

Painting of FL figures is not the same exactly from one range to another.. And this is because FL figures are produced in many different factories

Blending of facial features is top notch is some figures : french old guards, french aide de camp to name a fee
a little bit more apparant in gordons
but those gordons for 60$ eqch are a steal. The tartans are superbly painted and this is where those figures stand out

I think that FL figures excel where the suject calls for intricate sculpting, accurate proportions in armor and horses and very colorful subjects

That s why i will get those Renaissance figures since they look from the pictures theirbest product to date

cheers

alex
 
None of the painting on the figures from the major manufacturers (including First Legion) matches the quality achieved by the top Russian painters or even some of the very talented people who post their kit figures on this site.

Why? Because the price of extremely well painted figures is prohibitive to most.

This means that in order to make figures affordable a compromise is required. Painting is time/cost intensive so it seems like an obvious place to sacrifice some fidelity in the name of cost savings.

When I look at close-up pictures of figures from the various manuafactures I think First Legion does a better job than the others at keeping the compromise as small as possible. Does this mean I think the faces on all my FL figures are fantastic. No, not at all, sometimes when I look at the shading/highlighting I wonder "Did the master really look like this?". We have to remember that these are hand painted by a variety of individuals with varying levels of talent interpreting a master.

Ultimately everyone has to decide what looks good them and what they are willing to pay.
 
Frank i agree with your Opening statement none of the current mgf's match the top line Russian figures.If you watch E-bay and know some of the Russian large collectors you can buy many of the 54mm on the used market for about the same price as FL new.I have all the FL Romans and will buy all the new ones they are very nice figures but with the price increases they are getting in the same range as the used Russian figures which to me are superior IMO.Mike B.
 
Since I don't collect FL (a cost decision) and don't have any of the figures, my comments will not mean much but I have the same concerns others do with the WW2 figures. From day one, I have felt the faces are too long and the helmets much too small, for both German and Russian figures. They just don't do anything for me. On the other hand, if I ever get into Napoleonics, it will be FL as I find their Naps to be superb, especially the Russian cavalry. I am also thinking about getting some of the Renaissance figures as I feel thse are some of the best looking figures to hit the market in a while. So much for opinions. -- Al
 
Thank u Lancer and Phamtom Warrior
I'm not the only one who can't stand those long awkward faces
of the German and Russians of WW2
I collect the Naps for its diversity of nations and allies
nobody else does that. That's what got me into FL Naps
I also collect AWI, to me it's American history
The other ranges are awsome and very tempting
but keep money for Naps and AWI because
prices are going up with every releases
I beleive the other makers are raising the bar on
their sculping and painting to stay competetive
but FL rules
 
I would be interested in seeing several things ,

One would be a better sculpted and painted WWII figure from any of the other manufacturers listed in the Matte by manufacturer catagory on this site .First Legion goofy faces and all I still think they are light years a head . Side by side close up of First Legion and your choice . Please ..

The other would be a figure painted by our resident "Painter" Mitch as I was not aware of his wonderful skills in this department . Mitch I'm a fan of your white warshing it looks very good IMO . Perhaps a side buy side showing First Legion and a figure painted by yourself to show just how you would do it ,, Would love to see the expert shading and of course some expert wood grain effects buy the hand of a true master .. maybe seeing first hand your work side by side next to First Legion could really help us non painters out . Mitch maybe you should start a how to thread.... there are many who would love to learn I'd sign up in a heart beat .

Simmo ,
I think you are 100% correct , I'm always happy to see the new sculpts of several other manufacturers when I get their Newsletters but I'm always a bit let down once their painters get a hold of em , I seem to lose interest its a shame really .

Gebhard
 
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Gebhard maybe Mitch is paiting for FL and he didn't tell us
His work is awsome
 
I'm always on the look out for accurate superbly sculpted and painted WWII figures so please do share. You guys must have something you're using as a reference frame that is truly superb.
 
I hear the approaching clunk of a padlock.

Rob
 
Hi guy's it good that this thread has not turned into a ugly fight about one company and so forth. I have to agree with Mitch that I have seen first hand moderlers build and paint 1/35 scale better than alot of toy soldier makers. But on a large scale production line I think First Legion do it very well. I started this thread just to say First Legion have hit a spot in toy soldier making for me when I was selling off pieces and losing interest in the hobby and made it more fun again. Simmo.
 
Hi all,
I agree with many of you regarding the quality of the figures produced by First Legion especially painting. The problem is whether First legion produced figures or
toys soldiers?
For me no doubt, these are figurines. Of course we find more accurate figures like "Russian Vitiaz", "Aeroart" but more expensive.
Ten years ago I painted myself my figurines (like Metal Modele, Pegaso, Masterclass...), goal not satisfied with my work, I started collecting K&C.
Eighteen months ago I bought my "first" First Legion (it was a samuraï) and then I discovered a figure which I think comes closest to the image of the figure.
Since I collect different lines: Samurai, Naps, Civil war, Stalingrad and Crusaders... and that's all!:D
Of course, FL 's figures are not all perfect (especially the faces of Germans and Russians from the Stalingrad line) but I think right now it's the most beautiful figurines in the market for the price offered.
Sorry for my bad english, I'am french! Nobody is perfect!{sm4}
Regards
Xavier
 
Gebhard...

Firstly, thanks for the comments about the repaints though, that had to be sided with some sarcasm but, as its christmas and, avoiding playing with a glove and baseball in the cooler I will overlook it LOL. I have never stated that I am a top quality painter. I can paint, about anything thats put in front of me from plastic to metal miltary and civillian and, everthing else in between. I have been doing so since I was eight years old. I have entered many competitions won some, lost plenty and, been ripped apart by some of the best painters, modellers, and dio builders around so, I have also, learned an awful lot.

My comments about looking at things differently being a painter was not, a comment trying to be superior over those who cannot, Its just a fact that when you do these things you can see what is right and what is not. I am more critical of my own work than I am of anybody's else. If you think these comments are harsh then, you should be involved with modelling clubs and enter competitions thats real critique and high standards.

I have done many figures and posted several repaints on here. I don't see what putting a figure side by side would achieve as I am not saying mine are better than a manufacturers. I am just saying that in my opinion there are some things that I would not do. I appreciate, that FL like others are a mass produced product and, not able to have the time to spend on each figure like I could for myself or, commision I am just pointing out as was asked, that they are not, for me, light years ahead of the competition in terms of the WWII range figures.

I use a modulation technique thats currently used in AFV painting where one builds up tonal differences in facial features etc I also have the time and opportunity to try different mediums which, factory workers do not. I would buy FL WWII but for the issues I have raised I would live with the way they paint them and would repaint to my specific taste and standards but, the sculpt issues, for me, spoil the range. Thats an honest appraisal of how I view the range. It may be totally different to yours and others but, that does not mean its equally, not as valid. You clearly see them as light years ahead of others I don't see that. Thats just a difference of opinion and taste.

Rob....

I don't think this will be a lockdown. We now see an ability to critique all ranges. Jaw jaw is better than war war
Mitch



Gebhard said:
I would be interested in seeing several things ,

One would be a better sculpted and painted WWII figure from any of the other manufacturers listed in the Matte by manufacturer catagory on this site .First Legion goofy faces and all I still think they are light years a head . Side by side close up of First Legion and your choice . Please ..

The other would be a figure painted by our resident "Painter" Mitch as I was not aware of his wonderful skills in this department . Mitch I'm a fan of your white warshing it looks very good IMO . Perhaps a side buy side showing First Legion and a figure painted by yourself to show just how you would do it ,, Would love to see the expert shading and of course some expert wood grain effects buy the hand of a true master .. maybe seeing first hand your work side by side next to First Legion could really help us non painters out . Mitch maybe you should start a how to thread.... there are many who would love to learn I'd sign up in a heart beat .

Simmo ,
I think you are 100% correct , I'm always happy to see the new sculpts of several other manufacturers when I get their Newsletters but I'm always a bit let down once their painters get a hold of em , I seem to lose interest its a shame really .

Gebhard
Click to expand...
 
I don't see why there should be a lockdown or closing the thread as it seems to me some of the responses are measured in tone and well reasoned.

The question was is FL cutting edge. Where I think they are cutting edge is that they have brought to the toy soldier world, which I distinguish from the Connoisseur world, Russian style painting and quality at a more affordable price than Connoisseur figures although a little more expensive than your typical toy soldier figure. In that way they have done something different. Would I have purchased Russian figures at the prices the Russian manufacturers/painters charge? No, but I have purchased FL figures.

Matt and his company have made a niche where none mostly existed in the same way that Andy made a niche where none mostly existed in 1994. In that way, both of these innovators have been cutting edge.

Brad
 
The minute F/L came on the scene, the discussion stopped about collecting toy soldiers and became about buying a stand alone 54 mm miniature. For the price of 1 F/L horsemen, we can still buy a 6 piece well painted glossy set from just about any gloss mfg. past or present. Glossies were and always will be the original toy soldiers. You do not see us adult boys who collect them ,running up and down this forum proclaiming this glossy TS company is better than that one. It is because our egos are not measured by how much we paid for that 1 figure or set. We appreciate each other as a collector of a style and protectors of the past. Of course F/L chose not to go head to head with K/C ,Britians or any other major mfg. They broke ground by offering a cheaper Russian paint style figure priced between the usual TS offerings and the connoiseur models. I have always felt that calling toy soldiers, historical miniatures just gave any mfg. an excuse to charge a higher price for the naming. Those that collect F/L have to defend their turf. They spend 50 to 100% more for their figures than most collectors. For others to point out the errors or take issue with style/painting of these figures, challenges the F/L collectors taste and much higher investment in figures not so" perfect ". Other companies must be talked down and nitpicked so that F/L is presented as the new standard for the industry and all other collectors for other mfg. just do not get it nor have the "gift" to see it. Thank goodness I still collect toy soldiers and can talk toy soldiers with folks that still measure the worth of their collection by how much it means to them and not how much they overpaid for it..Michael
 
Until now the discussion had been, as I noted earlier, measured but as with many of your comments about First Legion you feel the need to throw a Molotov cocktail and present it as some sort of class war, as there is some sort of investment to be protected.

I wonder if this is because you have FL envy and don't or can't buy them for economic reasons. Do you decry the man who drives a better car than you. I would like to have a Porsche but don't look down on the person who does.

There are many FL collectors from all economic strata, just as there are many K & C collectors from all walks of life.
 
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