Is our Hobby Changing? (1 Viewer)

[Empire MM]

The rapid increase in prices across the board is one reason why those with a lower budget have simply stopped buying new product. With supply outstripping demand. There's plenty to purchase in the secondary markets that allows people to get far more for their buck.

When you say the secondary market, do you mean ebay?
I only ask, purely out of interest as I would think items in ebay are either unwanted items or rarer items? If they are over supply items then the hobby does have a problem maybe??

 

[Empire MM]

...Sierra, Troops of Time in Jacksonville, FL, King's X in San Antonio... all share the combination of location. They also Display, and that's not an aspect to be taken lightly if a brick-and-mortar shop is going to be part of your business model.

I agree fully Paul it is why I am trying to talk to some of these folks. These type of shops are dissapearing fast and need to be supported and appreciated, both by collectors and manufacturers.

These places are the cornerstone of our hobby and offer both a window into our hobby and an opportinuty for collectors to view items they may no other wise consider.

 

[Empire MM]

Those with F1 tastes ala Mr. Ecclestone generally do not belong to forums, they are too busy counting their billions!!!!

I think they have someone to count them for them {sm4}{sm4}{sm4}

 

[katana]

Ebay is definetly the secondary market and oversupply is very much in evidence! The superb TG Hetzer and Lynxs are at bid with starting prices well below MRP. K&C armor that would normally sellout are still available 3 years after issue. The same for Figarti. Armor is not moving and cost is the factor. $200.00 seems to be the threshold of pain for a lot of collectors not in the First Legion league. I include myself in this group as I can build several very nice models for $200+. I just finished a 1/24 TESCA Panzer II which has a K&C Panzer Kommander in the hatch; which is a better scale match to the figure than a polystone vehicle and has considerably more detail. I buy the figures and build the armor. I have a collection of Figarti armor that I am very happy with; but I bought most of it discounted 15% or better. The superb Figarti Panzer IV at $250.00 retail was what sent me back to building models rather than buying them. I purchased 3 1/30 scale Bandai kits for $50.00 each and the detail and accuracy exceed any polystone equivalent. The multimedia First Legion armor is equal in detail but even more expensive! $50.00 is my threshold of pain for 1/30 scale figures. I collect many other things that assume priority above certain price thresholds.

 

[Panzer ace]

Ebay is definetly the secondary market and oversupply is very much in evidence! The superb TG Hetzer and Lynxs are at bid with starting prices well below MRP. K&C armor that would normally sellout are still available 3 years after issue. The same for Figarti. Armor is not moving and cost is the factor. $200.00 seems to be the threshold of pain for a lot of collectors not in the First Legion league. I include myself in this group as I can build several very nice models for $200+. I just finished a 1/24 TESCA Panzer II which has a K&C Panzer Kommander in the hatch; which is a better scale match to the figure than a polystone vehicle and has considerably more detail. I buy the figures and build the armor. I have a collection of Figarti armor that I am very happy with; but I bought most of it discounted 15% or better. The superb Figarti Panzer IV at $250.00 retail was what sent me back to building models rather than buying them. I purchased 3 1/30 scale Bandai kits for $50.00 each and the detail and accuracy exceed any polystone equivalent. The multimedia First Legion armor is equal in detail but even more expensive! $50.00 is my threshold of pain for 1/30 scale figures. I collect many other things that assume priority above certain price thresholds.

I remember reading somewhere that eBay (among other sites) has gradually impacted almost every collectible market. Baseball cards, comic books and everything in between have all scene a drop in price based on the worldwide accessibility of items.

 

[LTC PaulN]

I agree fully Paul it is why I am trying to talk to some of these folks. These type of shops are dissapearing fast and need to be supported and appreciated, both by collectors and manufacturers.

These places are the cornerstone of our hobby and offer both a window into our hobby and an opportinuty for collectors to view items they may no other wise consider.

I've talked to two dealers whose business are solely on the internet because they understand the demographics of the collectors that repeatedly buy from them. The overhead that comes along with having a stand-alone shop or a space in a mall can't be justified against a profit margin that makes the business worthwhile in their local environments.

I've also been burned when travelling because I'll take a swing off of the beaten path to visit the shop of a dealer listed on the internet, only to find that their inventory is a single small display case of figures. Peter Nathan in Sydney...fantastic store/experience/conversations....Time Machine Studio in Singapore or The Bay in Toronto...not so much.

 

[Empire MM]

Ebay is definetly the secondary market and oversupply is very much in evidence! The superb TG Hetzer and Lynxs are at bid with starting prices well below MRP. K&C armor that would normally sellout are still available 3 years after issue. The same for Figarti. Armor is not moving and cost is the factor. $200.00 seems to be the threshold of pain for a lot of collectors not in the First Legion league. I include myself in this group as I can build several very nice models for $200+. I just finished a 1/24 TESCA Panzer II which has a K&C Panzer Kommander in the hatch; which is a better scale match to the figure than a polystone vehicle and has considerably more detail. I buy the figures and build the armor. I have a collection of Figarti armor that I am very happy with; but I bought most of it discounted 15% or better. The superb Figarti Panzer IV at $250.00 retail was what sent me back to building models rather than buying them. I purchased 3 1/30 scale Bandai kits for $50.00 each and the detail and accuracy exceed any polystone equivalent. The multimedia First Legion armor is equal in detail but even more expensive! $50.00 is my threshold of pain for 1/30 scale figures. I collect many other things that assume priority above certain price thresholds.

OK, I get that with items such as armour, tanks etc but, can you tell me when the JJD Albatros DV was last for sale on ebay for examlple? I think it depends on the numbers releassed and the mass appeal.

Also, is this true with foot figures? Do we see the new or last 12 month K&C pieces on ebay at a knock down price?

Everyone has to work to a budget due to the economy of wages etc. Cutting prices, if this is what is wanted, only results in a drop of quality somewhere along the line.

 

[jazzeum]

Companies like K & C, FL and JJD do not permit discounting by dealers on their products. You do see TG and Collectors Showcase being discounted heavily.

 

[Empire MM]

Companies like K & C, FL and JJD do not permit discounting by dealers on their products. You do see TG and Collectors Showcase being discounted heavily.

And therein lies the problem of devalued prices and products. I too do not allow discounting for this very reason

 

[jazzeum]

What does the discounting tell you then? :wink2:

 

[katana]

Economics 101; if supply exceeds demand than prices must fall or the market stagnates. Figarti armor is limited production of 100 pieces on average, they are being discounted. K&C new items are not allowed to be discounted; they are not selling at prior levels. Demand is down because prices are high and the ecomomy is uncertain. Figures will continue to sell, but in lesser quantities. I like First Legion figures but not at $50.00 apiece. I will buy a resin figure and paint it myself.

 

[jazzeum]

As you indicated, production is exceeding demand. As for those dealers that can't discount, inventory will continue to grow, either at the manufacturer or the dealer, eating up profit and future production. As for the ultimate consumers, those who decide to sell will take a loss. On top of a graying consumer base, something has got to give.

 

[uksubs]

Companies like K & C, FL and JJD do not permit discounting by dealers on their products. You do see TG and Collectors Showcase being discounted heavily.

Maybe not FL & JJD.But there kc dealer on eBay offering buy it now or best offer for the last couple of years tell you something!

 

[desk11desk12]

Many of you know I’ve sold about 85-90% of my collection over the past 3 years. However, I still have an extensive collection with over 90% of it now on display (8 dioramas).

My Rationale (My opinion):

1. It now mattered how much space it took to house my collection as prices of new releases continued to climb.

2. The continued erosion of the middle affluent class’s disposable income since 2008/ 2009, creating mass exodus of aging and middle aged collectors

3. Dumping: Glut of eBay toy soldier aftermarket product dropping prices, which created a race to the bottom and panic among collectors selling

4. Barrier of Entry for New Collectors – Simply put: “Cost” and “Lack of Interest”

These are the reasons I decided to sell the excess of my collection over last 3 years and pocketed a tidy sum and gain space too. However, it was a lot of work!

Do I miss the collectibles I sold? No, and interestingly enough I enjoy my remaining toy soldier collection even more. It’s weird isn’t it?


Thanks for reading,

Carlos

 

[katana]

Given the ecconomic predictions for 2016; I believe Figarti was the first to fall in what will be seen as a shake out in the Toy Soldier business. I wonder which manufacturers will survive?

 

[Jack]

What does the discounting tell you then? :wink2:

I'm a fan of the internal discounts - release figures likely to be purchased in multiples (NAPS standing firing for example) in a box of six/eight and make it cheaper than buying them individually. I purchased a firing line of Gordons for the Brisbane Napoleonic diorama which I organised for my shop to order and I purchased them over a series of weeks at my normal purchasing pace. I had the money to buy them all at once but then I would either have had to steer clear of the shop for a month or I would have made additional purchases to warrant a visit. Had there been a benefit to buying them in the 'super' box I would have done so.

 

[Imperial Miniatures]

And therein lies the problem of devalued prices and products. I too do not allow discounting for this very reason

It is illegal in the EU to fix a minimum price to prevent retailers from discounting (or them selling on the internet) - it breaks the anti-competition laws - so you need to be careful...

Mike

 

[lancer]

Reading post #94 by Carlos, I was struck by item 2 on his list, the continued erosion of disposable income since 2008. This is the precise situation I find myself in. 2007/08 is when I returned to the hobby in a big way. The sad fact is that since 2008 my disposable income has shrunk by a little over 70%. This, combined with the continuing price increases in our hobby, have forced me to virtually halt my purchasing. I now wait for JJD's WW1 aircraft releases, and hope they are not too frequent. I simply have no money for TS any longer, at least not like I did 5 years ago. I know this problem is common to a lot of forum members, but prices have simply made my purchases a very select and very infrequent occurrence anymore. I have been forced to very much change my collecting habits, which I am not alone in. I honestly don't see how the hobby can support the ever expanding number of releases combined with ever increasing prices. -- Al

 

[marco55]

That's why I buy mostly small figures.I do still collect Britain's CoE Indians and a few kits.
Mark

 

[Empire MM]

As you indicated, production is exceeding demand. As for those dealers that can't discount, inventory will continue to grow, either at the manufacturer or the dealer, eating up profit and future production. As for the ultimate consumers, those who decide to sell will take a loss. On top of a graying consumer base, something has got to give.

One problem with any discounting can be the unfortunate situation where the person receiving the discount is not really a collector of that brand and has no interest in it but uses the discount to sell items on at a profit, and Iknow that happens......