Isreal (4 Viewers)

[JL01]

Slightly American. One of my ancestors is a signer of the D of I. Another died heroically fighting in France in WW1 as a Captain in the American army. Thus the name Rutledge. Look it up. I doubt you’re as American…

Congrats on your distinguished lineage. Very impressive. I’m still curious as to what foes the US has “vanquished”?

 

[OzDigger]

Congrats on your distinguished lineage. Very impressive. I’m still curious as to what foes the US has “vanquished”?

That would be a lengthy list that would include historical foes such as; Native Americans, Great Britain, Canada, France, Mexico, Germany, Japan etc, etc.

 

[Rutledge]

That would be a lengthy list that would include historical foes such as; Native Americans, Great Britain, Mexico, Germany, Japan etc, etc.

Oz,

I suspect this dude could be a Russian or Chinese “instigator”.

ERM

 

[OzDigger]

Oz,

I suspect this dude could be a Russian or Chinese “instigator”.

ERM

I doubt that, more likely just a forum member with a different opinion. I can see his point regarding some subjects such as the global public opinion regarding ongoing civilian casualties in the Israel v Hamas conflict. However Israel has a history of ignoring public opinion, and in this matter I tend to agree that continued aggretion is the best option for their long term survival.

Of course history in that area suggests there could be an excallation with direct invasion from surrounding countries, but I think that's less likely in the present global situation.

 

[Rutledge]

I doubt that, more likely just a forum member with a different opinion. I can see his point regarding some subjects such as the global public opinion regarding ongoing civilian casualties in the Israel v Hamas conflict. However Israel has a history of ignoring public opinion, and in this matter I tend to agree that continued aggretion is the best option for their long term survival.

Of course history in that area suggests there could be an excallation with direct invasion from surrounding countries, but I think that's less likely in the present global situation.

You’re probably correct. BUT folks who don’t identify themselves beyond the very vague must be considered dubious until they prove otherwise.

Public opinion is fine to consider but it’s not how wars are won and waged.

 

[JL01]

That would be a lengthy list that would include historical foes such as; Native Americans, Great Britain, Canada, France, Mexico, Germany, Japan etc, etc.

Some interesting ones here. Native Americans I will grant you right off the bat albeit not necessarily something to be proud of. Germany I’m going to give to the Russians. The others would make an interesting debate.

 

[OzDigger]

You’re probably correct. BUT folks who don’t identify themselves beyond the very vague must be considered dubious until they prove otherwise.

Public opinion is fine to consider but it’s not how wars are won and waged.

It's wise not to reveal too much online, not like the good old days when most people would share a lot of personal information on forums and other social media. And sometimes we Read too much into what others are Writing online, especially on forums. In most cases people mean well, they just have a different and obviously biased viewpoint based on where they live, intelligence, cultural heritage, life experience etc.

I agree with your comment about Public opinion not winning wars. However Public opinion can be easily changed by Media, Governments etc.

 

[Combat]

Oz,

I suspect this dude could be a Russian or Chinese “instigator”.

ERM

LOL. Maybe he is also "obese" and has "diabetes."

 

[OzDigger]

Some interesting ones here. Native Americans I will grant you right off the bat albeit not necessarily something to be proud of. Germany I’m going to give to the Russians. The others would make an interesting debate.

Not sure how we can debate historical facts, America did actually vanquish those listed.

As for your assersion regarding Russia vanquishing Germany in, I assume, WW2. Russia only shortened that war, the allies, including America would have defeated Germany without the Russians. It's like saying the Prussians vanquished France in the Napoleonic wars. They certainly helped turn the tide at Waterloo, but France was never going to win long term, too many countries allied against them.

 

[JL01]

To the extent vanquish means to “subdue completely” I only see the US having done that to the Native Americans.

Although American by birth and nationality I proudly served in another nation’s military for five years, where I saw Europe, Africa and Asia, so I have a little different perspective than most here. I will leave this thread now to all of you who believe and support the common notions in the west of world history and turn my attention back to the toy soldiers.

C’est la vie!

 

[sammy719]

I stayed out the deep fray for the most part, but my tupppenace worth is Israel should take as long as needed to destroy Hamas, Hezbella, and Iran if necessary, how many years will the state of Israel build bomb shelters, iron Dooms??? Bullshit, time to fight and take a stand, if Palestinians are stupid enough to stay in a war zone after being told for weeks which way to run...so be it.....as Bomber Harris stated...they sowed the Winds, now they will reap the Whirlwind.

 

[OzDigger]

To the extent vanquish means to “subdue completely” I only see the US having done that to the Native Americans.

Although American by birth and nationality I proudly served in another nation’s military for five years, where I saw Europe, Africa and Asia, so I have a little different perspective than most here. I will leave this thread now to all of you who believe and support the common notions in the west of world history and turn my attention back to the toy soldiers.

C’est la vie!

I defined it as being defeated in battle or war. I doubt most Native Americans think they have been completely subdued, Australian Aboriginals certainly don't believe they have been.

What Army did you serve in, I'm interested in other people viewpoints even if I don't always agree with them.

 

[Rutledge]

LOL. Maybe he is also "obese" and has "diabetes."

Most Americans are obese/severely overweight, so the odds are that he is. Even if he’s more Chinese than American.

 

[marco55]

Not sure how we can debate historical facts, America did actually vanquish those listed.

As for your assersion regarding Russia vanquishing Germany in, I assume, WW2. Russia only shortened that war, the allies, including America would have defeated Germany without the Russians. It's like saying the Prussians vanquished France in the Napoleonic wars. They certainly helped turn the tide at Waterloo, but France was never going to win long term, too many countries allied against them.

The Russians were tough foes and never gave up but if it wasn't for the US supplying them they might have lost IMO.
Mark

 

[OzDigger]

The Russians were tough foes and never gave up but if it wasn't for the US supplying them they might have lost IMO.
Mark

Mark, that helped initally but the vast majority of their equipment was made in Russia, usually in factories beyond the range of German bombers.

There are so many myths and legends in military history, including WW2, that it is often difficult to sort fact from fiction, be it plain old exageration or propaganda etc.

And of course the media, especially movies, seems to have a greater influence on the average person than all the published history of warfare, however skewed.

 

[lancer]

The Russians were tough foes and never gave up but if it wasn't for the US supplying them they might have lost IMO.
Mark

The Russians chopped the Germans up, Lend Lease helped buy them time, but the invasion of Russia was a fatal German mistake. That said, Hitler lost WW2 when he declared war on the USA, making Roosevelt's problem of how to get the US into the European war a far easier political puzzle. Without Hitler's declaration, Japan would have gotten the main focus of the US. It would have been politcal necessity. Hitler doomed Germany, failing to defeat Great Britain, invading Russia thus making a multi-front war a reality, and giving the US the reason it needed to get Germany first. -- Al

 

[damian]

Could have sworn we brought Japan to an unconditional surrender in 1945. While kicking their *** all up and down the Pacific.

Not to mention Saddam H and Iraq. However, I forget. Who was it that was pulled out of a ditch, disheveled and unkempt, and later hung? Was it GW Bush? Hmm

So how was it serving in the Chinese military? Are you enjoying a nice stipend from the Chinese govt while seeking to sow discord in the place of your birth? You are so clearly a provocateur. Your Chinese masters will likely be disappointed by your exposure.

PS: We do not consider native Americans as a vanquished foe. They still live in America, on their own land, and are a strong and vibrant culture within the US.

You have to admit that the results of most post WWII US military interventions have been a bit mixed.

By and large.

 

[marco55]

The US military would do a lot better if they were allowed to fight. Politicians and political Generals hold them back. Since October 17th there have been over 50 attacks on US bases in the Middle East and our "president" has ordered 2 feeble attempts.
Mark

 

[damian]

I have to admit absolutely nothing.

That said, if any military / entity believes they can best the US in war, they’re welcome to try. In fact I would encourage it. No point in more yapping back and forth about who’s toughest. Let’s find out!

We all agree with that
But the results are different
Korea a draw
Vietnam a loss
Gulf War One. a huge victory
War on terror a bit mixed

 

[Combat]

We all agree with that
But the results are different
Korea a draw
Vietnam a loss
Gulf War One. a huge victory
War on terror a bit mixed

And don't forget the false premises, incompetence, and outright lies told by the US government that got us into all those wars. There is a lot of money to made from endless war. Being in a position to allocate that money is a source of enormous power to the politicians who dole it out. In many cases, it ensures their reelections. It's good for business. The US has paid trillions for the defense of Europe and other places around the globe for over 70 years. Meanwhile our cities and schools are in ruin while Europe is a utopia by comparison.