Isreal (2 Viewers)

[Silkwraith]

Sounds like a Hamas political broadcast in the most crudest of forms. You're basically blaming the Israeli's for the October 7th attack as a result of some secret Netanyahu agenda to land grab Gaza. As for your claim about Israeli radicalism like the rest of your post you provide no evidence nor context, just the standard ramblings of a pro-Palestinian supporter.

As for the 50,000 civilian causalities figures you have quoted, you do realize these figures are supplied by Hamas themselves and regularly quoted by the bias MSM as factual.

And lets not forget Israel withdraw from the Gaza strip back in 2005, which included the dismantling of over 2x dozen Israeli settlements from Gaza. The Palestinian Authority took control of Gaza which essentially became a Palestinian state. Hamas ousted the authority in 2007 and redirected the billions of international aid and financial investment into their own pockets.

LOL I am certainly not a HAMAS sympathizer, my god ! But I am also not stupid and gullible. As regards the October 7th attack - I am not the only one saying that - thousands of jews, some of which close friends of mine and relatives, are of the same opinion and accused the Netanyahu Government of, either MOSSAD had a very serious intelligence breakdown, or the secret service knew about the attack. I believe the latter because Netanyahu tends to be diabolically intelligent. If you remember this was on the news and even on the Israeli Press.

Secondly the 50,000 civilians killed - I am quoting these numbers from NBC, CNN, SKY and BBC. I do not know what MSM is and I certainly do not follow HAMAS .....I mostly follow BBC and Reuters since they are the best unbiased news services in the world. I also follow POLITICO from time to time as well.

As regards your 3rd point you are correct - but times change and with it the geopolitical situation. Wars in the middle east will keep on going unless radicalisation is obliterated and the only way how to do this is by implementing a just and fair agreement. But unfortunately generations have now been radicalised by this brutal war and I can never see that happen in the next 30 years. We shall see wars starting because Israel needs more land due to the ever growing population coming especially from Eastern Europe. Water is becoming an issue as well along with climate change ...these are all triggers and we shall see more violent clashes soon.

 

[Silkwraith]

You're forgetting that the people of Gaza and West Bank will only ever be satisfied when every Jewish person is dead, they are not interested in any two state solution.
They absolutely hate everything and everyone there Which is what they are taught from the cradle to the grave.

There are good and bad persons in every nation ! There are many Palestinians living and working in Israel - certainly you don't know these lands !

 

[Silkwraith]

You're forgetting that the people of Gaza and West Bank will only ever be satisfied when every Jewish person is dead, they are not interested in any two state solution.
They absolutely hate everything and everyone there Which is what they are taught from the cradle to the grave.

The only solution is the two state deal one which gives a feasible nation to the Palestinians and another that ensures feasibility and SECURITY to the Israeli people.

 

[Horus]

The only solution is the two state deal one which gives a feasible nation to the Palestinians and another that ensures feasibility and SECURITY to the Israeli people.

The Gazans and West Bankers are not interested in two states, they are only interested in the obliteration of Israel.
Thinking the BBC deliver unbiased news and politico too, tells me all I need to know about you.

 

[Horus]

There are good and bad persons in every nation ! There are many Palestinians living and working in Israel - certainly you don't know these lands !

There are plenty of Israeli Arabs, the Druze in particular who are very supportive of Israel as they know from experience, how they are treated elsewhere in the Middle East.
The Gazans and West Bankers who crossed over into Israel to work, will find it very hard to be able to cross over for a long time to come after what happened on 7th October.

So, you're saying that you know the Gaza and West Bank, but obviously you're only listening to one side of the discussion.

 

[tdubel]

I am going to simply state the only true solution that needs to come out of this is a Strong Israel. They are the free world's greatest ally in the fight against fanatics, plain and simple. Palestine in totality (Hamas, PLO, etc) has called for the destruction of Israel in full since the birth of Israel. This is no gray area. October 7th regardless of the breakdown of how it happened is NOT Israel's fault or doing, that is conspiracy BS. That is also crystal clear. Certain posts on here are just like the messages we see on our own College Campuses - ILL INFORMED and no understanding of history in the least. As I have said many times, insanity is by definition doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I think Israel has been patient enough. I am happy to let them and assist them to reaching their own goals here. I am not a morals judge, I am a realist and if the other side is hell bent on your destruction, then I think rendering them kaput seems appropriate.

No propaganda bs needed. Bottom line - HAMAS PLO ARE TERRORISTS, end of story and hopefully end of them.

And of all the things people want to rail against President Trump, this should not be one of them. As Americans, we should be supportive to our allies and especially in this case where they are our ONLY allies in this part of the World.

TD

 

[tdubel]

There are plenty of Israeli Arabs, the Druze in particular who are very supportive of Israel as they know from experience, how they are treated elsewhere in the Middle East.
The Gazans and West Bankers who crossed over into Israel to work, will find it very hard to be able to cross over for a long time to come after what happened on 7th October.

So, you're saying that you know the Gaza and West Bank, but obviously you're only listening to one side of the discussion.

Gotta love when a toy soldier forum is carpet bombed with Propaganda, good Lord. As one of my all time favorite lines in a movie continually rings true - "What the hell is the World coming to?"

Not quoting your posts as propaganda, but agreeing with you on the other 4 or 5 bombs.

TD

 

[Jumper]

Gotta love when a toy soldier forum is carpet bombed with Propaganda, good Lord. As one of my all time favorite lines in a movie continually rings true - "What the hell is the World coming to?"

Not quoting your posts as propaganda, but agreeing with you on the other 4 or 5 bombs.

TD

Well apparently you are unable to conduct a civilized discussion …you want to judge and call my point of views propaganda, go ahead, we live in a free world after all. It seems that, according to you, everyone is biased accept you ! If you actually believe that the Middle East crises shall solve itself by more and more bloodshed coming from both sides then you certainly lack wisdom my good friend but I will stop here.

I only feel truly sorry to all the Israelis who want to live in peace and not in fear of being bombed and terrorized like they have been since the 50s in the same way I feel sorry for honest and decent Palestinians, Lebanese and Jordanians suffering the impact of all this violence.

If you actually believe that the majority of the Israelis consent to all this bloodshed, then I invite you to go and talk with them, in the streets, in the shops and universities …everywhere….you will be surprised.

And I would not want to be in Netanyahu’s shoes when he loses the next election. He will spend the rest of his years in courts. Remember my words in the next 5/6 years.

 

[Horus]

Well apparently you are unable to conduct a civilized discussion …you want to judge and call my point of views propaganda, go ahead, we live in a free world after all. It seems that, according to you, everyone is biased accept you ! If you actually believe that the Middle East crises shall solve itself by more and more bloodshed coming from both sides then you certainly lack wisdom my good friend but I will stop here.

I only feel truly sorry to all the Israelis who want to live in peace and not in fear of being bombed and terrorized like they have been since the 50s in the same way I feel sorry for honest and decent Palestinians, Lebanese and Jordanians suffering the impact of all this violence.

If you actually believe that the majority of the Israelis consent to all this bloodshed, then I invite you to go and talk with them, in the streets, in the shops and universities …everywhere….you will be surprised.

And I would not want to be in Netanyahu’s shoes when he loses the next election. He will spend the rest of his years in courts. Remember my words in the next 5/6 years.

So you Jumper, and Silkwraith are one and the same person !
Seems you can't be relied on for fairness, when you use two usernames and by doing so, show that you do not have honest and openness at heart, how sad that shows you to be.

 

[tdubel]

Well apparently you are unable to conduct a civilized discussion …you want to judge and call my point of views propaganda, go ahead, we live in a free world after all. It seems that, according to you, everyone is biased accept you ! If you actually believe that the Middle East crises shall solve itself by more and more bloodshed coming from both sides then you certainly lack wisdom my good friend but I will stop here.

I only feel truly sorry to all the Israelis who want to live in peace and not in fear of being bombed and terrorized like they have been since the 50s in the same way I feel sorry for honest and decent Palestinians, Lebanese and Jordanians suffering the impact of all this violence.

If you actually believe that the majority of the Israelis consent to all this bloodshed, then I invite you to go and talk with them, in the streets, in the shops and universities …everywhere….you will be surprised.

And I would not want to be in Netanyahu’s shoes when he loses the next election. He will spend the rest of his years in courts. Remember my words in the next 5/6 years.

First of all, I am Jewish. Yup, you got it, happy to post it here. Second, part of my wife's family is ISRAELI. They are not Netanyahu Kool Aid drinkers, NOR am I, they are realists who have been in the crosshairs of people trying to kill them their entire lifetime. So, do you really want to talk for Israelis? Of course no one goes out everyday looking to kill Palestinians, BUT I think in their words, "enough is enough, so be it with what comes". OF course they want to live in Peace, BUT THEY HAVE NOT CAUSED THIS MESS NOR DID THEY EVER. Do you not remember Arafat of the 80s, 90s? Want to go back to the wars every 5 years since the State of Israel was founded? I think everyone on here is civilized in this discussion.

Trying to justify the existence of Palestine right now is a very hard road since they have done nothing but have leadership whose sole goal is to destroy Israel. This is not rocket science to understand, the Israelis are not the problem.

TD

 

[tdubel]

So you Jumper, and Silkwraith are one and the same person !
Seems you can't be relied on for fairness, when you use two usernames and by doing so, show that you do not have honest and openness at heart, how sad that shows you to be.

Hence a troll, should have known. Wonder if they are paid protestors!!!??!!
TD

 

[Desertkiwi]

LOL I am certainly not a HAMAS sympathizer, my god ! But I am also not stupid and gullible. As regards the October 7th attack - I am not the only one saying that - thousands of jews, some of which close friends of mine and relatives, are of the same opinion and accused the Netanyahu Government of, either MOSSAD had a very serious intelligence breakdown, or the secret service knew about the attack. I believe the latter because Netanyahu tends to be diabolically intelligent. If you remember this was on the news and even on the Israeli Press.

Secondly the 50,000 civilians killed - I am quoting these numbers from NBC, CNN, SKY and BBC. I do not know what MSM is and I certainly do not follow HAMAS .....I mostly follow BBC and Reuters since they are the best unbiased news services in the world. I also follow POLITICO from time to time as well.

As regards your 3rd point you are correct - but times change and with it the geopolitical situation. Wars in the middle east will keep on going unless radicalisation is obliterated and the only way how to do this is by implementing a just and fair agreement. But unfortunately generations have now been radicalised by this brutal war and I can never see that happen in the next 30 years. We shall see wars starting because Israel needs more land due to the ever growing population coming especially from Eastern Europe. Water is becoming an issue as well along with climate change ...these are all triggers and we shall see more violent clashes soon.

Your ignorance regarding the continued bias being reported in the main-stream media (MSM) since the 7th October atrocities says it all, as for the childish insults they just reflect your intellect and under mine your credibility.

No one forced Hamas and their Palestinian minions to cross the boarder on that fateful day to commit such heinous crimes, record it, celebrate it and continue to hold hostages and parade them dead or alive at every opportunity. Trying to defend Hamas and their actions and/or excuse it is just plain sick.

No one likes the killing or the destruction, but this is war and Hamas are showing no signs they wish to end it.

 

[Panzer ace]

First of all, I am Jewish. Yup, you got it, happy to post it here. Second, part of my wife's family is ISRAELI. They are not Netanyahu Kool Aid drinkers, NOR am I, they are realists who have been in the crosshairs of people trying to kill them their entire lifetime. So, do you really want to talk for Israelis? Of course no one goes out everyday looking to kill Palestinians, BUT I think in their words, "enough is enough, so be it with what comes". OF course they want to live in Peace, BUT THEY HAVE NOT CAUSED THIS MESS NOR DID THEY EVER. Do you not remember Arafat of the 80s, 90s? Want to go back to the wars every 5 years since the State of Israel was founded? I think everyone on here is civilized in this discussion.

Trying to justify the existence of Palestine right now is a very hard road since they have done nothing but have leadership whose sole goal is to destroy Israel. This is not rocket science to understand, the Israelis are not the problem.

TD

Tom:

Great post.

Like so many others who have posted on this thread I am not Jewish but I stand with you, your family and all of those who share in your faith.

My stand has nothing to do with religious believes, it is about right and wrong, and more importantly about the Jewish people’s right to simply exist.

-Jason

 

[tdubel]

Tom:

Great post.

Like so many others who have posted on this thread I am not Jewish but I stand with you, your family and all of those who share in your faith.

My stand has nothing to do with religious believes, it is about right and wrong, and more importantly about the Jewish people’s right to simply exist.

-Jason

Full disclaimer, I converted about 25 years ago or more. My wife's immediate family for 1-2 generations was born here. However, other side of family and going back a few, family was persecuted in WW2 and that family tree partially is in Israel today (cousins not too far removed and still in touch). So we have a good deal of mixed backgrounds in the family. One thing I can tell you, antisemitism was foreign to me many years ago, however, I can honestly say it exists sadly both here and obviously abroad as having experienced it. Kind of moronic when you think about it, that most of the problems today originated over religion centuries upon centuries ago and then was literally exacerbated by the Nazis. It is the best evidence to the saying those who ignore history................

I guess I am an odd Jew today, blond hair (it was gray now!), blue eyes, literally background can be traced to Prussian Germans and here it is married a brown eyed girl and converted!

TD

 

[Silkwraith]

Y

So you Jumper, and Silkwraith are one and the same person !
Seems you can't be relied on for fairness, when you use two usernames and by doing so, show that you do not have honest and openness at heart, how sad that shows you to be.

Yes I am, apparently I have two accounts - one on my desktop and one on my Ipad - my daughter was explaining to me that at one time or another I made another account - but obviously they both have identical information so not done intentionally or to - as you say it 'troll'. The management can easily remove Silkwraith ...which is my E mail address lol since I do not use it - I normally only use Jumper. I was explained what troll means and certainly I am not ...infact this is my first ever conversation on these forums. I never called anyone any names or threw any adjectives to anyone - my only aim is to eradicate hate and whatever triggers hate. If humanity continues on this trajectory the results would be catastrophic ....we are heading towards a perfect storm with climate change, radicalism fundamentalism - we are heading towards a clash of civilisations which would bring about bloodshed like we have not seen before. As was said by Gandhi - an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth will eventually render everyone blind and toothless.

And please refrain from calling me a Hamas sympathizer or any stuff like that, because I am not. Was HAMAS wrong - it was and will remain wrong and bad, on the other hands so is the carpet bombing of Gaza - they are both wrong in my opinion. Did Israel have a right to retaliate - YES it did - but proportionately not like this.

As regards my original claim - i honestly believe that MOSSAD - which is the BEST intelligence service in the world either had all its agents asleep for months and never detected the build up outside the Gaza Walls or ..........

I think my reasoning is well founded and fair - we can disagree yes but their is no need to call people names and throw innuendos - I never did that and never will. I respect everyone's opinion and will remain doing so.

So Silkwraith is the account I have on my desktop. Never realised this ! But management can feel free to remove it - I dont mind since I normally use Jumper on my ipad.

 

[Horus]

You certainly have issues in accepting the truth.

The only radicalised ones are your Gazans and West Bankers who rejoiced and celebrated the murders on true innocents, the Bibas family brutally slaughtered by Gazans and these were just the Gazans who you consider to be without blame.

These are the same Gazans and West Bankers who rejoiced and celebrated the horror of 9 -11.

Israel has taken far more care than any others have in a war, doing not only their best to try and keep those not actually carrying arms save, warning them of where they will be operating to avoid casualties, but also having provided them with food, water, electricity and more and exchanging the kidnapped hostages for terrorists at a very much disadvantaged rate.

These people who you are spreading lies and falsehoods for. when that doesn't work claim victimhood and no doubt in hope that this discussion will be pulled, as those that support this evil do not like having the light shined on them.

We know the truth and stand with Israel against those who would drag the World back to the dark ages.

 

[tdubel]

And please refrain from calling me a Hamas sympathizer or any stuff like that, because I am not. Was HAMAS wrong - it was and will remain wrong and bad, on the other hands so is the carpet bombing of Gaza - they are both wrong in my opinion. Did Israel have a right to retaliate - YES it did - but proportionately not like this.

Uh, No. I am sorry, but you do not have the right to talk about proportions. They have killed Israelis at will with incessant suicide bombings, wars, coordinated terrorist attacks, so when you are under constant attack, you have every right to respond with the force you choose. And what carpet bombing? Every bombing mission was a surgical strike. Did they miss at times, sure, crap happens in war, but when you have an embedded enemy using tunnels and civilians as shields, they were given every opportunity to surrender. Sorry, not sorry. As I said previously, the definition of insanity. If I were in Israel's shoes, a nice paved parking lot from "THE RIVER TO THE SEA" sure as hell seems like a great idea now. They have been asking for this mythical road for some time, I say they get what they have been asking for.

TD

 

[marco55]

I do not feel sorry for the Palestinians except maybe the small children as the civilians cheer on Hamas when something bad happens to Israelis or Americans.
For those in the west who support them they should be dumped into Gaza. It says something about them when other muslims won't take them in.
Mark