Isreal (2 Viewers)

damian said:
It is absolutely shocking and a complete outrage. I never thought I would hear about such things in the contemporary world.
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For 2,000 years Jews have been persecuted and drawn attention far out of proportion to their actual size of the population. I think we (the Western World) were lulled into a false sense of security after the Holocaust and the founding of Israel. Current events show that we were naive, that suspicions of Jews has never left.

This is not to say that other groups haven’t been discriminated against and so forth but suspicions of Jews has a staying power.
 
Some say Israel is currently where South Africa was in the 1960s or 1970s. Only time will tell.
 
World opinion, particularly amongst younger people, will seek some relatively non-violent resolution to the issue that will likely lead to greater autonomy for Palestinians. The apartheid regime in SA eventually capitulated to this sort of pressure. It took decades but it eventually happened. Demographically, populations sympathetic to the Palestinians will continue to gain influence in the West and increase the pressure on Israel. We’re seeing it already. Militarily, Israel, like the old SA government, has nothing to fear right now, but world opinion may eventually turn the tide.
 
JL01 said:
Demographics are destiny.
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If that is the case, the world is doomed. Educational test scores among younger people are dropping to historic levels. Almost none can pass the basic requirements in any public school. They have been indoctrinated by leftist educators into believing that the world is divided between the oppressors and the oppressed, by race, by gender, by income. In this false narrative, the oppressed of any of these classes have the right to commit violence, steal, and even kill. Most of these younger folks couldn't get by for a minute without their phones or find Israel on a map. They are not only ignorant but soft. Many likely have never heard of Israel or Gaza. They view "protest" of any cause as a means of entertainment and narcissism. They knock off early and go to Starbucks. It's a sad state of affairs.

Societies that cannot self-govern themselves and threaten civilization bear the consequences of those actions. German and Japanese cities were relentlessly bombed, and hundreds of thousands killed for that reason. Those countries were occupied for decades to ensure that the menace would not arise again. That is what should happen in Gaza. A colonization should be invoked until they demonstrate that they can act as a civilized people. It is unfortunate that it had to come to this. No one relishes the casualties of war, but their actions necessitated it just as the Japanese and German actions necessitated a brutal response in WWII. An occupying UN force made up of Turkish and other Muslim countries should take control of the area for the foreseeable future.
 
JL01 said:
World opinion, particularly amongst younger people, will seek some relatively non-violent resolution to the issue that will likely lead to greater autonomy for Palestinians. The apartheid regime in SA eventually capitulated to this sort of pressure. It took decades but it eventually happened. Demographically, populations sympathetic to the Palestinians will continue to gain influence in the West and increase the pressure on Israel. We’re seeing it already. Militarily, Israel, like the old SA government, has nothing to fear right now, but world opinion may eventually turn the tide.
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I am a pretty intelligent guy, but I just can't get any correlation between South Afrika, a known racist government (at the time who suppressed their own citizens for many years) and Israel. Literally, the Jews are the ones that have been persecuted since the dawn of time. The "State of Israel" has been under siege since its creation. I am sorry, but I am not crying a river for the Palestine, who has continually relied upon and supported TERRORISTS forever and ever. Cry me a freaking river, Israel should do everything in its power to defend itself, protect itself and survive. And right now, that means wiping an evil off the face of the Earth. If the Palestinians want to continue to favor and rely on terrorists, then if you live by that sword, guess what, you perish by it. Pretty simple equation. Hear is another one I believe in wholeheartedly and I sleep like a baby at night.... "God Forgives, I don't". This applies to whoever your God may be.

Mic drop.
TD
 
JL01 said:
World opinion, particularly amongst younger people, will seek some relatively non-violent resolution to the issue that will likely lead to greater autonomy for Palestinians. The apartheid regime in SA eventually capitulated to this sort of pressure. It took decades but it eventually happened. Demographically, populations sympathetic to the Palestinians will continue to gain influence in the West and increase the pressure on Israel. We’re seeing it already. Militarily, Israel, like the old SA government, has nothing to fear right now, but world opinion may eventually turn the tide.
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Dream on there, big un.

Any compromise by Israel would put them under the boot of people who genuinely hate them and openly seek their extinction. It will never happen -- without a nuclear attack. And that would go very, very poorly for the muslim world.

See, the whole "Anti-Zionism" is not racism/or J** hating is absolute bu==sh++. Nobody with any brains buys it.

Israel has tried to promote the two state solution but the Pals wont accept it because they know it means Israel wins.

World opinion will eventually see the Palestinians for what they are: A backward, parasitic society whose primary objective is not prosperity or peace but the destruction / annihilation of its neighbor.

If Trump gets into office again we may finally see American tolerance and patience for those who shout "Death to America", burn American flags and all that nonsense get the Saddam Hussein treatment. Gloves off, bring it dont sing it... :)


PS: I am not Jewish, nor am I a "Born Again Christian". I grew up an Episcopal but consider myself non-denominational.
 
Respectfully, given the demographics on this forum, these comments don’t surprise me. They echo US foreign policy over the last 75 years. The US, and its client states, had all the leverage after the European Civil War that ended in 1945. However, what the future holds for the Great American Empire going forward remains unknown.
 
I'm genuinely appalled by some of the posts on this thread......in fact I'd go so far as saying disgusted.

There's no doubting Hamas are extremists and a bunch of terrorists of the worst kind and have strong links to Iran (Shiite) but labelling all Palestinians in the same vain demonstrates a total lack of understanding of the situation they find themselves in.

As for Israel genuinely truly trying to help displaced Palestinians work towards self-determination that's complete bollocks. They've illegally continued to set up Israeli settlements beyond their 1967 borders with absolutely no intervention from the UN or the international community......the system is broken.

International intervention is needed, at the moment the US is kind of the sole third party in relation to overseeing this particular conflict. Without the Arab Leagues participation (Sunni) any ceasefire etc is pointless and just creates continuing conflict.......

I truly feel for the Israelis during this latest Hamas atrocity, however we're now heading to nearly 10,000 Palestinian deaths of mostly civilian's. Anyone thinking bombing the crap out of Gaza is going to somehow improve things for Israel has rocks in their heads......
 
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I truly feel for the Israelis during this latest Hamas atrocity, however we're now heading to nearly 10,000 Palestinian deaths of mostly civilian's. Anyone thinking bombing the crap out of Gaza is going to somehow improve things for Israel has rocks in their heads......[/QUOTE]

I agree that Vendetta can only go so far without the World changing opinion.
"Bombing some sense into 'em" rarely, if ever, works. That would imply they are reasonable.
But,
TF mods wisely deleted some Russian propaganda from a certain "tank"ed person recently.:salute::
We must be careful not to seem irresolute with our allies and our convictions or these people will attack us more. But I hope we are strong enough for some debate.

I think the Russians and Chinese and Iranians and all the other governments that hate the West can only benefit from violence in Gaza at this point.

My Jewish friends (and Dad & I have many), I say to you that the justified retaliation and attempt to destroy Hamas cannot inflict unnecessary damage on civilians. It will broaden the conflict and lead to pro-Palestinian sentiment. The terrorists should be given a lesson. But unleashing the power of the IDF and the West will only reinforce their views. It will not bring the hostages home. It will not bring the dead back.

Peace is always the answer, no matter how difficult.

Long Live Israel
Paddy
 
Desertkiwi said:
I'm genuinely appalled by some of the posts on this thread......in fact I'd go so far as saying disgusted.

There's no doubting Hamas are extremists and a bunch of terrorists of the worst kind and have strong links to Iran (Shiite) but labelling all Palestinians in the same vain demonstrates a total lack of understanding of the situation they find themselves in.

As for Israel genuinely truly trying to help displaced Palestinians work towards self-determination that's complete bollocks. They've illegally continued to set up Israeli settlements beyond their 1967 borders with absolutely no intervention from the UN or the international community......the system is broken.

International intervention is needed, at the moment the US is kind of the sole third party in relation to overseeing this particular conflict. Without the Arab Leagues participation (Sunni) any ceasefire etc is pointless and just creates continuing conflict.......

I truly feel for the Israelis during this latest Hamas atrocity, however we're now heading to nearly 10,000 Palestinian deaths of mostly civilian's. Anyone thinking bombing the crap out of Gaza is going to somehow improve things for Israel has rocks in their heads......
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You have some points here, but alas, there is a reality IMO you are missing. Israel as I said before plain and simple is the only US ally in that Region. And regardless of opinion on settlements, my opinion is that unfortunately due to the continuous and purposeful planning for the destruction of Israel (by Iran and if you don't believe that, then you have to seriously read history and look in the mirror). Israel will continue to do everything in its power to protect and preserve. So, be appalled all you want, it is simple survival. Unchecked, the lovely Arab, Persian, Muslim and Ottoman leaders would systematically destroy Israel. There is no doubt there, that is a fact, not an opinion.

As far as I am concerned, George Patton had it right oh so many years ago whether people believe it or not.

And if you are appalled at folks who have a long memory, so be it. The Holocaust was merely 80 years ago, not even an average lifetime. So, I for one am all for giving them everything we have to make sure they remain a power and ally in that region. The cost to mankind is easily worth the price IMO.

TD
 
tdubel said:
You have some points here, but alas, there is a reality IMO you are missing. Israel as I said before plain and simple is the only US ally in that Region. And regardless of opinion on settlements, my opinion is that unfortunately due to the continuous and purposeful planning for the destruction of Israel (by Iran and if you don't believe that, then you have to seriously read history and look in the mirror). Israel will continue to do everything in its power to protect and preserve. So, be appalled all you want, it is simple survival. Unchecked, the lovely Arab, Persian, Muslim and Ottoman leaders would systematically destroy Israel. There is no doubt there, that is a fact, not an opinion.

As far as I am concerned, George Patton had it right oh so many years ago whether people believe it or not.

And if you are appalled at folks who have a long memory, so be it. The Holocaust was merely 80 years ago, not even an average lifetime. So, I for one am all for giving them everything we have to make sure they remain a power and ally in that region. The cost to mankind is easily worth the price IMO.

TD
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Tom, there is also on more US ally in the region, the only country that Israel frequently has military exercises with, google it :). War is a terrible thing but if the Arab nations had it their way, Israel will have been wiped of the face of the map in 1948...Israel has always been fighting for its survival. Look at what Turkey stated, our NATO ally, threatened to send troops to fight on the side of Hamas!....what???? They should be kicked out of NATO.
 
Desertkiwi said:
I'm genuinely appalled by some of the posts on this thread......in fact I'd go so far as saying disgusted.

There's no doubting Hamas are extremists and a bunch of terrorists of the worst kind and have strong links to Iran (Shiite) but labelling all Palestinians in the same vain demonstrates a total lack of understanding of the situation they find themselves in.

As for Israel genuinely truly trying to help displaced Palestinians work towards self-determination that's complete bollocks. They've illegally continued to set up Israeli settlements beyond their 1967 borders with absolutely no intervention from the UN or the international community......the system is broken.

International intervention is needed, at the moment the US is kind of the sole third party in relation to overseeing this particular conflict. Without the Arab Leagues participation (Sunni) any ceasefire etc is pointless and just creates continuing conflict.......

I truly feel for the Israelis during this latest Hamas atrocity, however we're now heading to nearly 10,000 Palestinian deaths of mostly civilian's. Anyone thinking bombing the crap out of Gaza is going to somehow improve things for Israel has rocks in their heads......
Click to expand...

Meanwhile, appeasement works so well, as Neville Chamberlain showed. Nothing will sate Palestinian blood lust except the complete destruction of Israel. Ask them yourself. What do you want? They’ll chant from the river to the sea…blah blah blah. Everyone knows the vast majority of Palestinian “civilians” fully support Hamas AND their warring activities. It collectively gives them a bon##.
And those Iranian inspired chants of “Death To America” don’t exactly give me the warm fuzzies.

So bombing into oblivion doesn’t work? Gee, last two big wars we won outright, the tactic seemed pretty effective. Ask Japan or Germany.

Your disgust is noted. Yawn.
 
JL01 said:
Respectfully, given the demographics on this forum, these comments don’t surprise me. They echo US foreign policy over the last 75 years. The US, and its client states, had all the leverage after the European Civil War that ended in 1945. However, what the future holds for the Great American Empire going forward remains unknown.
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The future is certainly unknowable. But, the thing is, young people are stupid. That’s why they’re not in charge. I mean, lots of young people like the idea of socialism — until they get that first paycheck. You know, net of Fed & state taxes, fica, Medicare, etc. Then they become raging capitalists. Lol

And fyi, every “old person demographic” on the forum was once upon a time a young person. Every single one of them. 😵*💫 And look at us now.

America, for all its many imperfections, is still the last best hope for the “good guys”. No one else is even a close second. I mean, people are still clamoring to come here while adversarial countries can’t keep what they got. Pitiful.
 
Alexander the Great said:
Tom, there is also on more US ally in the region, the only country that Israel frequently has military exercises with, google it :). War is a terrible thing but if the Arab nations had it their way, Israel will have been wiped of the face of the map in 1948...Israel has always been fighting for its survival. Look at what Turkey stated, our NATO ally, threatened to send troops to fight on the side of Hamas!....what???? They should be kicked out of NATO.
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Erdogan is a brutal dictator, he illegally occupies northern Cyprus, he is an imperialist who wants to reconstitute the Ottoman empire, he makes agreements with Putin......But if Turkey were thrown out of NATO it would definitely go over to the other side, against the West.
 
tdubel said:
You have some points here, but alas, there is a reality IMO you are missing. Israel as I said before plain and simple is the only US ally in that Region. And regardless of opinion on settlements, my opinion is that unfortunately due to the continuous and purposeful planning for the destruction of Israel (by Iran and if you don't believe that, then you have to seriously read history and look in the mirror). Israel will continue to do everything in its power to protect and preserve. So, be appalled all you want, it is simple survival. Unchecked, the lovely Arab, Persian, Muslim and Ottoman leaders would systematically destroy Israel. There is no doubt there, that is a fact, not an opinion.

As far as I am concerned, George Patton had it right oh so many years ago whether people believe it or not.

And if you are appalled at folks who have a long memory, so be it. The Holocaust was merely 80 years ago, not even an average lifetime. So, I for one am all for giving them everything we have to make sure they remain a power and ally in that region. The cost to mankind is easily worth the price IMO.

TD
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You've missed the point of my post entirely.......which was to break the circle of violence and the status-quo there has to be some serious intervention. Neither Israel nor the US can achieve this alone, hence my comments about the 'Arab League' involvement.

To me the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is a huge diplomatic failure and has always had the treat of developing into a much wider conflict hanging over it. The thought of that happening is deeply concerning and will make recent conflicts in the region seem like a walk in the park.

I never said anything about Israel not being allowed to defend itself, far from it....but its going to take way more than guns and bombs to solve this issue and if you don't get that then that's your problem.
 
Poppo said:
Erdogan is a brutal dictator, he illegally occupies northern Cyprus, he is an imperialist who wants to reconstitute the Ottoman empire, he makes agreements with Putin......But if Turkey were thrown out of NATO it would definitely go over to the other side, against the West.
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Turkey has already joined the other side against the West, the West does not want to acknowledge it:

1. Have been occupying northern Cyprus (since 1974), 200,000 Greek Cypriot refugees.
2. Calling the Kurds a terrorist organization, denying them a homeland and oppressing them.
3. Committed genocide against the Armenians and Pontian Greeks.
4. Threatening Greece on a daily basis with overflights over the Greek islands.
5. Giving a safe refuge to Hamas on Turkish soil.
6. Threatening Israel with invasion (we can laugh now) good luck with that.
7. Incursions and bombings into Syria and Iraq.
8. Blocking the expansion of NATO.
9. Jailing journalists, lawyers, opposition leaders.
10. Trying to storm Incirlik airbase (yesterday).
11. Best friends with Putin's Russia and Iran.

What a great ally, we need more allies like Turkey!!!
 
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